England

[PaddockLad 17255]

I'm not saying it's your fault, but they shouldn't be used as the basis of any argument. Didn't Hodgson get Switzerland to 3rd in the world? Switzerland ffs.

 

judge for yourself.....theres all sorts of factors to be taken into consideration and applied. If your game is in the knockout phase, you get get 3 points for a win, 2 points for a win on penalties, and one point for a draw....but if you have a draw then win on pens it adds up to 3, the same for a win in normal time, but you've only drawn the game....it looks, to this layman at least, fuckin ludicrous

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Rankings

Edited June 27, 2012 by PaddockLad

[McFaul 35]

So presumably June/July is the time of the court case.

 

Like I said famous swimming trunk minus the S and

[LeazesMag 0]

judge for yourself.....theres all sorts of factors to be taken into consideration and applied. If your game is in the knockout phase, you get get 3 points for a win, 2 points for a win on penalties, and one point for a draw....but if you have a draw then win on pens it adds up to 3, the same for a win in normal time, but you've only drawn the game....it looks, to this layman at least, fuckin ludicrous

 

http://en.wikipedia...._World_Rankings

 

indeed. Being in 6th position at the moment for instance doesn't necessarily mean you have the 6th best setup for example. Some people realise this and some don't.

[PaddockLad 17255]

indeed. Being in 6th position at the moment for instance doesn't necessarily mean you have the 6th best setup for example. Some people realise this and some don't.

 

Its a guide or indication, not definitive. Take friendly matches out of it and it would be a lot more accurate, but we really wouldnt be much different, and youd have the odd anomaly, like Honduras being 2nd for a while a few years back. The problem is how do we improve as a team so we can find a way past the quarter's/group stages. I think as a football nation we should be capable of improving, but the various things we've thrown about on here since Sunday prevent it.

[LeazesMag 0]

Its a guide or indication, not definitive. Take friendly matches out of it and it would be a lot more accurate, but we really wouldnt be much different, and youd have the odd anomaly, like Honduras being 2nd for a while a few years back. The problem is how do we improve as a team so we can find a way past the quarter's/group stages. I think as a football nation we should be capable of improving, but the various things we've thrown about on here since Sunday prevent it.

 

I agree with you.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

When were Honduras ranked 2nd in the world? I must've missed that one.

I think the social issue is important. I'm not so sure it's about the immigrants and where they're from though. There's still lots of 1st/2nd generation immigrants in this country from the sorts of places that seem to produce good footballers. I reckon it's more to do with less kids playing football.

Then when they do play there's two main problems for me and they're both coaching problems at either end of the scale. At grassroots level there are nowhere near enough decent coaches, where the mentality is still largely kick and rush. I agree with the comments about not playing on full-sized pitches etc. but it's hardly a new idea yet still fuck all changes.

At the other end of the scale the more obviously talented young kids are playing at academies way too soon and being turned into robots by coaches with the Fifa accreditations but little or no creativity. These kids aren't allowed to play for their schools (if I remember rightly) and are stopped from playing with their mates. I would imagine this stifles their creativity as instead of honing their Maradona and Cruyff turns against their less able mates, they're being told to get it, pass it and move playing against far better than average defenders. There's a quick fix / shortcut mentality in this country too. You see it in the likes of Alan Shearer wanting the right job (i.e. a massive salary at a PL club) rather than cutting his teeth and learning the ropes in the lower divisions (cliche-tastic but true).

Also, in Spain and Holland there's something like 5 times the number of Fifa coaches with their A badge than there are here (or whatever it's called - fully qualified anyway). That's despite the fact that you need to put in something like 3 or 4 times the time to get the qualification in those countries than you do here (I can't remember the exact figures but you catch my drift).

I'm nearly 40 now and this debate was being had when I was a kid about changing the culture, improving the coaching, playing less matches, etc. etc. And while I'm ranting and raving the FA are a fucking joke. How much money passes through their hands? And yet they're still no nearer to producing a production line of technically able and tactically astute young players.

Edited June 27, 2012 by ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie

[McFaul 35]

Agree with most of that, although I have to reiterate what I said earlier, England actually being the best team in the world for a country of our demographics and population would be over achievement. The kids of today in Britain are the fattest little cunts in the world behind America (although being associated with Scotland probably bumps that up), you can't expect Tubby Johnson to turn out like Messi. I think England's station is about the 6th-15th best country at playing football in the world. That's where we are. It's like expecting Newcastle to win the Premiership.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

Agree with most of that, although I have to reiterate what I said earlier, England actually being the best team in the world for a country of our demographics and population would be over achievement. The kids of today in Britain are the fattest little cunts in the world behind America (although being associated with Scotland probably bumps that up), you can't expect Tubby Johnson to turn out like Messi. I think England's station is about the 6th-15th best country at playing football in the world. That's where we are. It's like expecting Newcastle to win the Premiership.

We should be better technically and at keeping the ball etc. than we are though. Ukraine are dead ordinary and they dominated possession. Apparently our possession stats are our worst at any major tournament since 1980. Obviously that's just one stat but it's a telling one. I'd also say that, looking at about the last four tournaments, we're getting worse and slipping farther behind if anything. I thought we were abysmal against Italy (who are decent but nowt special).

Edited June 27, 2012 by ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie

[Howmanheyman 33180]

It's been said but you just have to factor in MB's/chat rooms, daft fuckers sitting with headphones on telling some other daft fucker they are 'totally owned' on some computer game and huge amounts of junk food being cheap*. When you see kids walking about at dinnertime eating from a big fuck off pizzabox then realise they haven't even had their tea yet you'll catch my drift.

 

Less fit kids, (more fat kids), smaller pool of kids able to cut the mustard, more money so kids wont use any shite to kick around with, eg, not playing in a street with a smaller cheaper ball using a gate for a goal and using skills to dribble around parked cars, (sounds cliched to fuck but it would hone your skills as much as a cone), when they can have a big CL edition ball, be kitted out in full strips with shin pads at some astroturf sportscentre.

 

I know you could read this post with the hovis music in the background but I still think it's valid.

 

*Lets face it, pizza/kebab shops are ten-a-penny these days with permanent cheap offers on, look at the amount of leaflets coming through your door ffs.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

It's been said but you just have to factor in MB's/chat rooms, daft fuckers sitting with headphones on telling some other daft fucker they are 'totally owned' on some computer game and huge amounts of junk food being cheap*. When you see kids walking about at dinnertime eating from a big fuck off pizzabox then realise they haven't even had their tea yet you'll catch my drift.

 

Less fit kids, (more fat kids), smaller pool of kids able to cut the mustard, more money so kids wont use any shite to kick around with, eg, not playing in a street with a smaller cheaper ball using a gate for a goal and using skills to dribble around parked cars, (sounds cliched to fuck but it would hone your skills as much as a cone), when they can have a big CL edition ball, be kitted out in full strips with shin pads at some astroturf sportscentre.

 

I know you could read this post with the hovis music in the background but I still think it's valid.

 

*Lets face it, pizza/kebab shops are ten-a-penny these days with permanent cheap offers on, look at the amount of leaflets coming through your door ffs.

Don't think that's any different to the rest of western Europe though so there's a lot more to it than that.

[Happy Face 29]

With the poverty in Haiti it's amazing they're still as low as 71 in the world rankings

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

With the poverty in Haiti it's amazing they're still as low as 71 in the world rankings

And Scotland should still be producing great players

[Howmanheyman 33180]

Don't think that's any different to the rest of western Europe though so there's a lot more to it than that.

Don't see as many fat kids in Europe, mate.

 

 

With the poverty in Haiti it's amazing they're still as low as 71 in the world rankings

Haiti? Which part of England is that in?

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

Don't see as many fat kids in Europe, mate.

 

 

Perhaps not but I seriously doubt it's that different. If you've got figures that prove otherwise, fair enough. Even then though, Holland (for example) has a much smaller population but they still manage to produce much more technically gifted players than we do. Croatia has the population of Wales for fuck's sake. I think it's a massive oversimplification. I'll tell you another reason why, when I was young we all played football in the street all hours and even then and in all the years since we were light years behind most countries (purely in terms of technique at least), so the diet / lfestyle thing isn't what it's all about imo.

[Howmanheyman 33180]

Perhaps not but I seriously doubt it's that different. If you've got figures that prove otherwise, fair enough. Even then though, Holland (for example) has a much smaller population but they still manage to produce much more technically gifted players than we do. Croatia has the population of Wales for fuck's sake. I think it's a massive oversimplification. I'll tell you another reason why, when I was young we all played football in the street all hours and even then and in all the years since we were light years behind most countries (purely in terms of technique at least), so the diet / lfestyle thing isn't what it's all about imo.

I just think the lifestyle is something that doesn't help our cause and by no means the only factor. Where's the Beardsley's, Waddle's and Gazza's? All had more skill and technique then any I've seen playing for England lately.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

I just think the lifestyle is something that doesn't help our cause and by no means the only factor. Where's the Beardsley's, Waddle's and Gazza's? All had more skill and technique then any I've seen playing for England lately.

I agree it's a factor like but I also think those 3 were down to luck as well, all those 3 coming through from nearly the same place at nearly the same time at the same club (o.k. Pedro was abroad for a bit / at Carlisle / Man Utd first) was a freak occurrence. Great players probably did come about by playing off the cuff with their mates but street football has died a death all over (even in places like Brazil). Those countries seem to have adapted to the changes, unlike us. We've never been a proper World force since Alf Ramsay's team of the mid-60s - early 70s. That points to something fundamentally wrong in how players are developed in a fairly large, football mad country.

[McFaul 35]

We should be better technically and at keeping the ball etc. than we are though. Ukraine are dead ordinary and they dominated possession. Apparently our possession stats are our worst at any major tournament since 1980. Obviously that's just one stat but it's a telling one. I'd also say that, looking at about the last four tournaments, we're getting worse and slipping farther behind if anything. I thought we were abysmal against Italy (who are decent but nowt special).

We should be better technically and at keeping the ball etc. than we are though. Ukraine are dead ordinary and they dominated possession. Apparently our possession stats are our worst at any major tournament since 1980. Obviously that's just one stat but it's a telling one. I'd also say that, looking at about the last four tournaments, we're getting worse and slipping farther behind if anything. I thought we were abysmal against Italy (who are decent but nowt special).

I agree like but see in my view we had better players at home than some of the ones out there. Picking Milner and Parker every game showed me that his primary objective was to avoid career damaging heavy defeats. You have Carrick who won't win as many tackles as Parker, but is 10 times the player when it comes to vision and all round ability, at home, Adam Johnson one of the trickiest wingers around, over looked for Downing, and Oxlade etc...I think if you had've given Woy the results he had at the start of the tournament including QF defeat, before the tournament he'd have taken it.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

Thought Johnson in particular was a very strange one and made me worry about Woy being dour as fuck. Even stranger when Downing wasn't getting a game anyway. Carrick's decent and what you'd call a good continuity player but he'd have had no one to pass too. I thought Parker did alright as it happens. Seeing as he had to do Gerrard's running as well. Playing 4-4-2 didn't help either, especially such a rigid 4-4-2. I thought 1/4 finals was probably as good as anyone hoped for but the manner of the performances were what pissed me off.

[McFaul 35]

With the poverty in Haiti it's amazing they're still as low as 71 in the world rankings

With the poverty in Haiti it's amazing they're still as low as 71 in the world rankings

People can say what they like but poverty and wealth come in to it. Even in this country there are examples. Take Oxford same size as Middlesbrough. Tell me a famous footballer from Oxford, a city that is relatively affluent full of hooray henry cunts. Now think how many Middlesbrough produced, Brian Clough, Wilf Mannion, Revie, and Woodgate off the top of my head. Oxford haven't even produced a Stuart Downing.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

It's been said but you just have to factor in MB's/chat rooms, daft fuckers sitting with headphones on telling some other daft fucker they are 'totally owned' on some computer game and huge amounts of junk food being cheap*. When you see kids walking about at dinnertime eating from a big fuck off pizzabox then realise they haven't even had their tea yet you'll catch my drift.

 

Less fit kids, (more fat kids), smaller pool of kids able to cut the mustard, more money so kids wont use any shite to kick around with, eg, not playing in a street with a smaller cheaper ball using a gate for a goal and using skills to dribble around parked cars, (sounds cliched to fuck but it would hone your skills as much as a cone), when they can have a big CL edition ball, be kitted out in full strips with shin pads at some astroturf sportscentre.

 

I know you could read this post with the hovis music in the background but I still think it's valid.

 

*Lets face it, pizza/kebab shops are ten-a-penny these days with permanent cheap offers on, look at the amount of leaflets coming through your door ffs.

 

good point. it's actually often cheaper for most poor families to buy takeaway junk food than it is to puchase the stuff needed to make a proper healthy home cooked meal.

 

and it's easier to let your kids sit on their arses all day in front of the tv or playstation than it is to persuade them to get outside and exercise.

 

i'm fucked if i'm letting my boy turn out like that mind. he's going to be down the park every saturday kicking the ball around whether he likes it or not.

[McFaul 35]

Thought Johnson in particular was a very strange one and made me worry about Woy being dour as fuck. Even stranger when Downing wasn't getting a game anyway. Carrick's decent and what you'd call a good continuity player but he'd have had no one to pass too. I thought Parker did alright as it happens. Seeing as he had to do Gerrard's running as well. Playing 4-4-2 didn't help either, especially such a rigid 4-4-2. I thought 1/4 finals was probably as good as anyone hoped for but the manner of the performances were what pissed me off.

Thought Johnson in particular was a very strange one and made me worry about Woy being dour as fuck. Even stranger when Downing wasn't getting a game anyway. Carrick's decent and what you'd call a good continuity player but he'd have had no one to pass too. I thought Parker did alright as it happens. Seeing as he had to do Gerrard's running as well. Playing 4-4-2 didn't help either, especially such a rigid 4-4-2. I thought 1/4 finals was probably as good as anyone hoped for but the manner of the performances were what pissed me off.

That's all he's known his whole career though, Liverpool were a rigid 442 most of the time, same with Fulham and WBA. A thinking mans Graham Taylor is all he is.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

Was Phil Stamp not from Oxford like ?

[McFaul 35]

Was Phil Stamp not from Oxford like ?

Was Phil Stamp not from Oxford like ?

Phil Stamp and Jamie Pollock would never make the Page 7 fella like.

[Guest ImreVaradisWalkieTalkie]

Phil Stamp

[Dr Gloom 21915]

always had more of a bricklayer than pro footballer look going