If we finish in the top 4.....

[LeazesMag 0]

I fully expected to lose that final so it never felt close to me. I couldn't believe we got there - we were fucking shite. The following year the same against the best Man United side I've seen, we had no chance. It was the semi under Bobby when I genuinely thought we could win it. Poyet you cunt.

 

we were shite, we were shite in 1974 too. I've been to 3 FA Cup Finals, no goals, 3 defeats, 3 times they may as well have stayed at home.

 

However, that final against Arsenal could have turned out differently if Shearer had scored rather than hit the post when Keown stood on the ball. On such fine lines are success and failure seperated sometimes.

 

We were unlucky to play the current champions on both occasions in my view. Thats the way it goes sometimes. The League Cup has been there for the taking though, when clubs such as Leicester, smoggies and Blackburn have won it.

[manc-mag 1]

This is the double edged sword of (eg Champions League) in the modern game. The manager will be under pressure to qualify again. If they've been allowed to spend some money that pressure will be intensified further. This might induce him to 'rest' players for the cups.

 

The reality is the cup is the only thing we have a realistic prospect of winning and therefore we should go for it, but in that case we should also accept it has a potential impact on league placings due to the demands it places on the squad game. As soon as we're out of the cup we can't then moan on unduly about ground we may have lost in the league. Ideally we should compete on all fronts but that might still be a while off yet as we first have to adjust to extra (euro) games. It's all good experience and you've got to be in it to win it, but we never won it (or anything) when we were the biggest spenders in town so we have to never lose sight of that context rather than go crying off if it doesnt come to pass and we slip some league positions. As has been rightly pointed out by Toonpack, NUFC never made season on season improvements to high league finishes save for one season. That's an horrendous indictment and shows what progress really boiled down to back then. The big clubs do things very differently and we have to try to emulate their standards rather than just apeing the transactions of their payroll department.

 

A cup of any description would be an unbelievably massive achievement but it needs a completely new focus and mindset for NUFC. Even going back to the Keegan era, while the football was scintilating, when he said that Geordies would rather see an entertaining team than a winning team (words to that effect) he'd already handed any silverware over to the clubs that putting winning silverware above anything else.

 

We're set up not to lose now and thats a start, but we need to be clear we have to pick our battles next season. If we'd have spent tons of money under other managers in the last few years we wouldn't have won owt so we've not missed out on anything. This has to be an era of constant focus, reflection, standards and sheer graft. The last ingredient is luck, but if we work harder than we've done in the past we're more likely to get that. We haven't in the past because we've never really deserved it. I detest Man U for their luck but you earn your luck at the end of the day and they earn their's because their millionaire players never ever stop playing for the cause. Ours you did well to get 5 minutes out of.

 

Not these lads though because it's not tolerated and they've responded to that. The top players do, they respect the standards being demanded of them and they rise to it. The rest can fuck off anyway, theres plenty of other ailing gravy trains (Villa etc). We've been there and I'm fucked if I want to go back to it.

 

Lets go all out for the cups but lets also try and look at things holistically and try to judge on overall trajectory. If we have to build slowly, fine. Building fast has never bought us a trophy anyway so in building slowly we're not turning our backs on anything thats ever worked for us in the past.

[Toonpack 9108]

in an idealistic little world, its a win/win situation. Unfortunately, the ambition is limited, it is easier to make a profit by selling a player than to reach out for the real money that is available. I stand by what I say, you are talking rubbish. You didn't even know about the advertising on the roof and around the ground. A premiership club to promote the company will give it worldwide advertising, they will be happy to retain that.

 

At some time in the future, they will be advertising it on the shirts [for how much ?], and I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised to see the 2nd strip incorporate the colours either including the red.

 

As you once said, enjoy the moment, don't lets worry about an admininstration that never happened, any other irrelevant adverse publicity, or boo if we finish 5th rather than 4th.

 

Lets see what the summer brings eh? There is plenty of money left from player sales and other revenues [or should be in keeping with the 14th biggest in football] to build on this, and qualify for the Champions League and europe for a few more seasons yet to keep the momentum going.

 

Please show me where I said I didn't "know about the advertising on the roof etc." btw I fly over the place twice a week and have done since last July.

 

The rest is usual "sometime in the future something will happen" bollocks, which I don't even bother arguiomng anymore. No reference to what has actually happened.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

We may never win anything, but for me its all about the journey - not arriving.

We could worry green about not qualifying again, or just have a blast and enjoy it for what it is, a european adventure.

I know I will. Its the media that grinds on and on about qualifying again, there is no requirement on our part. Noone came here to play CL fotball, any european jaunt is a blast.

 

Dont buy into the media hype that the pressure is on etc. Its just London journalists finding a new angle of applying pressure where there is none, since they dont like having northeners riding the gravy train.

[manc-mag 1]

We may never win anything, but for me its all about the journey - not arriving.

We could worry green about not qualifying again, or just have a blast and enjoy it for what it is, a european adventure.

I know I will. Its the media that grinds on and on about qualifying again, there is no requirement on our part. Noone came here to play CL fotball, any european jaunt is a blast.

 

Dont buy into the media hype that the pressure is on etc. Its just London journalists finding a new angle of applying pressure where there is none, since they dont like having northeners riding the gravy train.

 

I realise that but you don't set the club's budgest with respect. You should enjoy any Euro excursion for all it's worth, anyone would be daft not to, but if you're wanting any Euro money earned to be spent one season then the people holding the purse strings will want Euro money coming in the next to cover it again. That's a reality. Unless you're not advocating spending to stay in European competitions, in which case yeah what you say is absolutely spot on. Just enjoy it for a 100% holiday and anything more is a bonus.

[LeazesMag 0]

Please show me where I said I didn't "know about the advertising on the roof etc." btw I fly over the place twice a week and have done since last July.

 

The rest is usual "sometime in the future something will happen" bollocks , which I don't even bother arguiomng anymore. No reference to what has actually happened.

 

you mean like "we will go bust", which never happened, but were relegated under Ashley not the Halls and Shepherd ?

 

You're a complete hypocrite and an idiot, with your eyes closed and use any old stick to beat the old owners with, like others on skunkers. You thought last summer that you would gloat to me when we spent the Carroll money, instead the bulk of it has disappeared and it could have been used to strengthen the team even further which you cannot acknowledge.

 

Anyway, I'm done replying to you. I'm hoping we do this, this summer instead, he's got another chance, and attempt to move further forward but I'm not blind and stupid enough to the fact that he may go back to selling players again, one window isn't proof of a change in philosophy or ambitions.

 

That's my piece and I'm sticking to it, I want the club to qualify for europe and the CL more times over the next few years, and I'll admit I am wrong, unlike others, if he does what needs to be done, and I'll be very happy if he does it.

Edited April 24, 2012 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

I realise that but you don't set the club's budgest with respect. You should enjoy any Euro excursion for all it's worth, anyone would be daft not to, but if you're wanting any Euro money earned to be spent one season then the people holding the purse strings will want Euro money coming in the next to cover it again. That's a reality. Unless you're not advocating spending to stay in European competitions, in which case yeah what you say is absolutely spot on. Just enjoy it for a 100% holiday and anything more is a bonus.

 

PS for clubs that win things, it's absolutely nowt to do with the journey and everything to do with 'arriving'. You have to win by hook or by crook, so running around wide eyed for 90 minutes with a smile on your face chasing a fotball isn't an option.

 

Europe is a huge bonus at the end of this season, but how it's approached by the club both in terms of preparation and 'mistakes learned from' (ie that dirty word: "hindsight") is actually very serious business.

[Happy Face 29]

one window isn't proof of a change in philosophy or ambitions.

 

We only turned a profit in one of the last 5 windows.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

I realise that but you don't set the club's budgest with respect. You should enjoy any Euro excursion for all it's worth, anyone would be daft not to, but if you're wanting any Euro money earned to be spent one season then the people holding the purse strings will want Euro money coming in the next to cover it again. That's a reality. Unless you're not advocating spending to stay in European competitions, in which case yeah what you say is absolutely spot on. Just enjoy it for a 100% holiday and anything more is a bonus.

 

Sure, but we needed a bigger squad anyway - so were were always going to strengthen in the summer. With european fotball now becoming a reality, thanks to carroll we have the money to sign 1-2 extra players for that. Add to that we have Marveaux coming back, Abeid and ferguson rising through the ranks as well as perch gosling and guthrie, all we really need is the defense having a good look at.

 

I see no downsides really

 

We are making this a bigger deal than it has to be, Everton Stoke Fulham etc have all been in european fotball previous seasons and Im sure they enjoyed it. I agree with what you are saying but I dont think its as "deer in the frontlights" as you make it out to be.

 

Mike knows that if he wants european fotball again, he will have to invest in/keep the squad - so its all up to him.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Lake Bells tits

[Toonpack 9108]

you mean like "we will go bust", which never happened, but were relegated under Ashley not the Halls and Shepherd ?

 

You're a complete hypocrite and an idiot, with your eyes closed and use any old stick to beat the old owners with, like others on skunkers. You thought last summer that you would gloat to me when we spent the Carroll money, instead the bulk of it has disappeared and it could have been used to strengthen the team even further which you cannot acknowledge.

 

Anyway, I'm done replying to you. I'm hoping we do this, this summer instead, he's got another chance, and attempt to move further forward but I'm not blind and stupid enough to the fact that he may go back to selling players again, one window isn't proof of a change in philosophy or ambitions.

 

That's my piece and I'm sticking to it, I want the club to qualify for europe and the CL more times over the next few years, and I'll admit I am wrong, unlike others, if he does what needs to be done, and I'll be very happy if he does it.

 

More made up drivel

 

No I didn't and no it hasn't and yes it was.

 

The prediction of "going bust" wasn't crystal ball "in the future" stuff, it was an opinion formed, after the event, based on the evidence readily available, we were goosed. As for the relegation, it was an accident waiting to happen.

[LeazesMag 0]

We only turned a profit in one of the last 5 windows.

 

they kept all of their best players, and improved it with a quality player. As you pointed out HF. Which cemented and boosted our league position and has reaped its rewards. This is how it is done.

 

Lets hope they carry on with this mentality and strategy.

[LeazesMag 0]

More made up drivel

 

No I didn't and no it hasn't and yes it was.

 

The prediction of "going bust" wasn't crystal ball "in the future" stuff, it was an opinion formed, after the event, based on the evidence readily available, we were goosed. As for the relegation, it was an accident waiting to happen.

 

my opinions are based on how football has always been, along with a certain amount of common sense which appears to be beyond you and others like you.

 

We didn't go bust or got relegated under the Halls and Shepherd, but we WERE relegated under Ashley. There is fuck all "crystal ball" about that. When Keegan was manager, we were only a couple of players from having a top 6 team in my opinion, but it wasn't done. I hope he now realises where he went wrong, now that we are back in the top positions and attempts to move forward in the only way to do it. Which isn't selling your best players and failing to back your manager with the cash from the sales, if it has to happen.

[manc-mag 1]

Sure, but we needed a bigger squad anyway - so were were always going to strengthen in the summer. With european fotball now becoming a reality, thanks to carroll we have the money to sign 1-2 extra players for that. Add to that we have Marveaux coming back, Abeid and ferguson rising through the ranks as well as perch gosling and guthrie, all we really need is the defense having a good look at.

 

I see no downsides really

 

We are making this a bigger deal than it has to be, Everton Stoke Fulham etc have all been in european fotball previous seasons and Im sure they enjoyed it. I agree with what you are saying but I dont think its as "deer in the frontlights" as you make it out to be.

 

Mike knows that if he wants european fotball again, he will have to invest in/keep the squad - so its all up to him.

 

Yes and they all fell away again the following season. So if you're okay with that, that's fine we can enjoy it as a holiday and I'll expect you to say no more about it when we fall away again slightly the following season.

 

If you want to keep up there though (as a priority) that may require spend. Given the way the club is run, this will (rightly) need to be paid for out of Euro money accrued and sustained in following seasons through future Euro monies. Ergo there will be a financial pressure to qualify again. So what i'm saying is even if the papers highlight this, it's not scaremongering, it's just a reality.

 

We need to deal with realities by the way. We move forward as a club far better when we do that, rather than playing head-in-the-sand fantasy chequebook fotball.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Yawn...... here we go again.

[Kitman 2204]

Please show me where I said I didn't "know about the advertising on the roof etc." btw I fly over the place twice a week and have done since last July.

 

I find this hard to believe. Are you......?

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Yes and they all fell away again the following season. So if you're okay with that, that's fine we can enjoy it as a holiday and I'll expect you to say no more about it when we fall away again slightly the following season.

 

If you want to keep up there though (as a priority) that may require spend. Given the way the club is run, this will (rightly) need to be paid for out of Euro money accrued and sustained in following seasons through future Euro monies. Ergo there will be a financial pressure to qualify again. So what i'm saying is even if the papers highlight this, it's not scaremongering, it's just a reality.

 

We need to deal with realities by the way. We move forward as a club far better when we do that, rather than playing head-in-the-sand fantasy chequebook fotball.

 

I think the question that needs to be asked is if Mike will DEMAND european fotball.

Will he? Neither us or him expected this, we deserve to be a big club but for success in the long term we need a better defense.

If we get that I can see us qualifying again, but my point is that it takes alot of fun out of the fotball worrying about European fotball all the time. We can back up 2 years ago so Im not quite there yet, for now I will just enjoy the ride.

[Happy Face 29]

they kept all of their best players, and improved it with a quality player. As you pointed out HF. Which cemented and boosted our league position and has reaped its rewards. This is how it is done.

 

Lets hope they carry on with this mentality and strategy.

 

Yeah. The year prior to relegation was an utter disgrace with regard to transfer policy which was totally slash and burn. It's understandable to be wary for some time since then, however, there's very little you can point at in the transfer market that hasn't worked perfectly in the last 2 years. We've sold player of the year winners and close runners, but we've replaced them with better.

 

Lets hope they carry on with this mentality and strategy.

[OTF 7214]

Yes and they all fell away again the following season. So if you're okay with that, that's fine we can enjoy it as a holiday and I'll expect you to say no more about it when we fall away again slightly the following season.

 

Do you think, if we didn't play any games in Europe next season, that we'd be in fourth or better with 4 games left to play?

 

 

[Happy Face 29]

Have you seen the title odds for next year?

 

Chelsea 5/1

Liverpool 18/1

Tottenham 20/1

 

Newcastle 150/1

 

http://www.paddypower.com/football/uk-football/premier-league

 

Can't find top 4 odds, but we'll be the outasiders for that too.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

what was the top 4 odds prior to this season? Seem to remember someone tossing in a cheeky 1 pound bet which could well turn into a lovely holiday in a few weeks..

Edited April 24, 2012 by Lake Bells tits

[manc-mag 1]

Do you think, if we didn't play any games in Europe next season, that we'd be in fourth or better with 4 games left to play?

 

The bit you've quoted was me repudiating the point he was making about Fulham, Everton and Stoke. I mean it can increase the chances of you falling away.

 

I don't really see the point you're trying to make coming at it the other way tbh.

 

My point is we should be massively positive about whats gone on this season and we should continue to keep our points of reference re: exactly what has worked for us and carried us forward as a club. A happy go lucky attitude to Europe is great but my point is please pleeeeeeease dont turn into a whinging bairn as soon as we're knocked out and you turn to the league table again. This deserves a real long term mindset at the moment.

[OTF 7214]

Just a pre-emptive strike at any argument that may surface next season if we're in a lower position on the table. It would be easy to blame it on Europe, but realistically we've overachieved this season.

 

It's fantastic, don't get me wrong.

[manc-mag 1]

Yeah. The year prior to relegation was an utter disgrace with regard to transfer policy which was totally slash and burn. It's understandable to be wary for some time since then, however, there's very little you can point at in the transfer market that hasn't worked perfectly in the last 2 years. We've sold player of the year winners and close runners, but we've replaced them with better.

 

Lets hope they carry on with this mentality and strategy.

 

Tbh Leazes, its good to see a climb down at last on your part when facts like this are pointed out to you. I mean you can continue to point a finger to the future and sound a cautionary note, I don't think anyone whos been following NUFC for any appreciable length of time would argue with that, but of course when your manifesto has been at it's most robust, you've said verbatim that we are set up as a selling club and turning a profit on a player is the sole motivation/business model. Well four of the last five windows where that's not happened would represent absolutely appalling business from MA if that was indeed his focus, being as he's a market stall billionaire. And the one where it did turn a (freakish) profit you had respected private North East businessmen and genuine football people saying they'd have done the same. So I think we can finally put some of your more extreme stuff to bed as claptrap at least.

[manc-mag 1]

Just a pre-emptive strike at any argument that may surface next season if we're in a lower position on the table. It would be easy to blame it on Europe, but realistically we've overachieved this season.

 

It's fantastic, don't get me wrong.

 

I like the cut of your jib.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

The bit you've quoted was me repudiating the point he was making about Fulham, Everton and Stoke. I mean it can increase the chances of you falling away.

 

I don't really see the point you're trying to make coming at it the other way tbh.

 

My point is we should be massively positive about whats gone on this season and we should continue to keep our points of reference re: exactly what has worked for us and carried us forward as a club. A happy go lucky attitude to Europe is great but my point is please pleeeeeeease dont turn into a whinging bairn as soon as we're knocked out and you turn to the league table again. This deserves a real long term mindset at the moment.

 

It takes more than a EL run to fundamentally change a clubs position, Fulham nearly won the entire thing and they went fuck all places really.