PaddockLad 17642 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 As Gemmil would say, Google it lazy fucker I'll take that as you being unable to defend the uncomfortable truth, as per usual....its like you wanting rid of Pardew all over again and not having the first clue what comes next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Or it could be me going to bed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 All the Tories need to do at the next election is have lots of posters around the country. In big letters they will say "remember Labour?" And underneath will be a picture of a treasury desk with a hand written note saying.... "There's no money left". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5294 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Labour didn't spend all the money, that's just lies they feed people who get all their information from newspapers. http://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/debt/government-borrowing.html See graph one on that page. That's our debt as a %age of GDP. Notice how it was consistently high through the 80s under Thatcher. It spiked a little when Labour took power, presumably due to the boost in public spending, and then dropped to sub-40% levels - largely due to sound economic policy. This is where the IMF encourages countries to have it during booms. It shoots up when the financial crisis - the global one, beyond the control of domestic politics - takes off. The same damn thing would have happened if the Tories were in power. It's not as a result of higher Labour spending, but as a result of a fall in GDP; spending was roughly the same, but the boundaries changed. Also notice how it is continuing to rise now, as GDP is not being bolstered, because the Tories aren't spending. GDP = Government Spending + Consumer Spending + Investment + (Exports - Imports) Government spending has fallen, Consumer spending has fallen (due to no one having any fucking money), Investment has fallen because they've made the interest rates so low (to encourage people to spend all the money they don't have), and we're importing more than we export. Net result = GDP goes down, debt as a %age of GDP goes up. This can be reversed by any of those factors increasing - the only one that can be increased, is Government Spending. This does however show why Milliband is so frustrating. He's given up persuading people of the actual economics of all of this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaffer 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 It makes no difference how brilliant you would like to be if you have not got the money to carry it out. If for one minute you think this fellow is going to come up with a plan that will suddenly boom the economy without massive borrowing or taxation that has escaped all the best minds to date then I would love you to say what you think it might be. When I mentioned Jon Cruddas I made absolutely no connection to the economy. The reason I mentioned him is because I think his work will be decisive if Labour are to win the election. Many of the academics that are working together with Cruddas at the moment are strongly influenced by John Rawls. If you want to get a rough feeling for what these people stand for check out Michael Sandel's new book http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/184614471X/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0374983917&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=1BCSWCETXQJRVGSCBPGX Now, with regards to the whole austerity vs. borrowing thing. This is an overly simplistic way of framing a pretty complex economic debate that has been going on for donkeys years. Both sides have some pretty sound arguments, however, given the mess that Japan are in after similar austerity in the 90s and the lack of growth we are experiencing here I'm more inclined to go with Keynes' depression economics over any Neo-Classical formula. Robert Skidelsky's 'Keynes: The Return of the Master' pretty much sums up the sort of position I would take and that I hope Labour might, I also like Krugman but he has a tendency to be too dogmatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaffer 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Author Share Posted February 9, 2013 All the Tories need to do at the next election is have lots of posters around the country. In big letters they will say "remember Labour?" And underneath will be a picture of a treasury desk with a hand written note saying.... "There's no money left". Thats actually quite good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3959 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Labour didn't spend all the money, that's just lies they feed people who get all their information from newspapers. http://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/debt/government-borrowing.html See graph one on that page. That's our debt as a %age of GDP. Notice how it was consistently high through the 80s under Thatcher. It spiked a little when Labour took power, presumably due to the boost in public spending, and then dropped to sub-40% levels - largely due to sound economic policy. This is where the IMF encourages countries to have it during booms. It shoots up when the financial crisis - the global one, beyond the control of domestic politics - takes off. The same damn thing would have happened if the Tories were in power. It's not as a result of higher Labour spending, but as a result of a fall in GDP; spending was roughly the same, but the boundaries changed. Also notice how it is continuing to rise now, as GDP is not being bolstered, because the Tories aren't spending. GDP = Government Spending + Consumer Spending + Investment + (Exports - Imports) Government spending has fallen, Consumer spending has fallen (due to no one having any fucking money), Investment has fallen because they've made the interest rates so low (to encourage people to spend all the money they don't have), and we're importing more than we export. Net result = GDP goes down, debt as a %age of GDP goes up. This can be reversed by any of those factors increasing - the only one that can be increased, is Government Spending. This does however show why Milliband is so frustrating. He's given up persuading people of the actual economics of all of this! This annoys the shit out of me. The world financial crisis wasn't sohe unforseen accident which couldnt be stopped. Even Ed Balls has finally started apologising for the policies Labour introduced which brought it about. The total relaxation of all financial rules on debt. The ability of a bank to buy debt from its different arms and show it as a profit in both (which was only possible in London) hastened the diaster we saw. However since then the Tories have taken economic fuckwittery to new levels. Every new tax and cut is aimed at the poorest in society while allowing the rich actual tax cuts. Fucking astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22142 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Labour didn't spend all the money, that's just lies they feed people who get all their information from newspapers. http://www.economicshelp.org/macroeconomics/debt/government-borrowing.html See graph one on that page. That's our debt as a %age of GDP. Notice how it was consistently high through the 80s under Thatcher. It spiked a little when Labour took power, presumably due to the boost in public spending, and then dropped to sub-40% levels - largely due to sound economic policy. This is where the IMF encourages countries to have it during booms. It shoots up when the financial crisis - the global one, beyond the control of domestic politics - takes off. The same damn thing would have happened if the Tories were in power. It's not as a result of higher Labour spending, but as a result of a fall in GDP; spending was roughly the same, but the boundaries changed. Also notice how it is continuing to rise now, as GDP is not being bolstered, because the Tories aren't spending. GDP = Government Spending + Consumer Spending + Investment + (Exports - Imports) Government spending has fallen, Consumer spending has fallen (due to no one having any fucking money), Investment has fallen because they've made the interest rates so low (to encourage people to spend all the money they don't have), and we're importing more than we export. Net result = GDP goes down, debt as a %age of GDP goes up. This can be reversed by any of those factors increasing - the only one that can be increased, is Government Spending. This does however show why Milliband is so frustrating. He's given up persuading people of the actual economics of all of this! CT owned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Dr G demonstrating a distinct lack of understanding about politics. It's perception not facts that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 It's perception not facts that matter. That's the perfect excuse to deflect away any facts you don't agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22142 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Dr G demonstrating a distinct lack of understanding about politics. It's perception not facts that matter. "Stop confusing me with facts" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 That's the perfect excuse to deflect away any facts you don't agree with. We are discussing an election campaign. Facts don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7168 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Arguing with CT about politics is like arguing with Wolfy about Satellites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46014 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 We are discussing an election campaign. Facts don't matter. You are a tit. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 My last go today at educating children. # Perception NOT facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 Wait till CT picks up on The West Wing from the "what should i watch" thread and comes on here talking like Jed Bartlett Been there, done it, got the t.shirt junior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted February 9, 2013 Share Posted February 9, 2013 You got a junior tshirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gejon 2 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 You got a junior tshirt? To wear with his size 28 jeans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Here's a shit joke. How does a financial crisis turn into a debt crisis? When governments bail out their banks. What Rayvin pointed out about the lies told about how we got into our debt problem is not about 'perceptions' CT you enormous twat, it's about making sure policy responses are designed to address the root causes of the problem and not trading off social welfare with expedient (and now failing) political measures. Also FYI - 'Relaxing Austerity' is an expression used for taking a sniff of poppers to ensure your arsehole puckers just enough to be fucked by Tory economic policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Here's a shit joke. How does a financial crisis turn into a debt crisis? When governments bail out their banks. What Rayvin pointed out about the lies told about how we got into our debt problem is not about 'perceptions' CT you enormous twat, it's about making sure policy responses are designed to address the root causes of the problem and not trading off social welfare with expedient (and now failing) political measures. Also FYI - 'Relaxing Austerity' is an expression used for taking a sniff of poppers to ensure your arsehole puckers just enough to be fucked by Tory economic policy. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 (edited) My last go today at educating children. # Perception NOT facts. AIDS? Christ, I didn't realise that. Edited February 11, 2013 by BigWalrus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 My last go today at educating children. # Perception NOT facts. 21 years ago man! There's been 5 general elections since that was published! (and the Sun have changed their minds several times on who to support). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTaffer 0 Posted February 11, 2013 Author Share Posted February 11, 2013 http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/11/labour-lead-conservative-12-point-poll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4820 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 What a joke this bloke is. Yesterday the Labour party announce that Ed Milliband will be making a big economy speech on Thursday but it wont include any policies. Then David Cameron takes the piss re the no policy bit at PMQ Today it includes a new policy, to re-introduce the 10p rate of tax previously abolished by Labour. Aye, we want this fellow with his fingers on all the levers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 What a joke this bloke is. Yesterday the Labour party announce that Ed Milliband will be making a big economy speech on Thursday but it wont include any policies. Then David Cameron takes the piss re the no policy bit at PMQ Today it includes a new policy, to re-introduce the 10p rate of tax previously abolished by Labour. Aye, we want this fellow with his fingers on all the levers. Dave never changes his mind. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9617519/37-coalition-climbdowns-u-turns-and-row-backs.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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