Rayvin 5176 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, The Fish said: Will they? There weren't many who thought they'd get relegated this season (myself included). They'll be going down with Burton who've experience in that league, plus 1 of Bolton, Birmingham, Reading (and maybe Hull). They might shift Rodwell and Cattermole, but who's left? They could be down there with a club like Blackburn or Wigan... so it's not like they're nailed on favourites.The standard of players they now have is League 1 level, but not even good League 1 level. They're bereft of confidence, with a tradition of failure ingrained in the club. They've won fewer games than anyone else in the country. When the exodus occurs they're not going to be flush with cash to spend on talent, unless Short funds it. The money that they'll get from parachute payments and player sales won't even clear their external debt. Especially given the crap they've got on the playing staff. An ageing squad of overpaid turd. They need an overhaul but haven't the money to do that. I've been guilty of overestimating them, I won't be doing it again.  I think the size of the club will start to be significant in League One. They're a bigger club than Blackburn and Wigan, and will require far less spending to win L1 than they would have to stay up in the Championship. But sure, they could fail. I hope they do. But I'm not counting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 4181 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Both of those clubs have won something in semi recent memory mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1221 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 54 minutes ago, The Fish said: In total? Surely Khazri, Lens, Borini and Djilosjbsololjbsvjbssi will get them £10m between them at least? Transfermarkt seems to think Borini and Lens will be joining their loan clubs permanently next season for £9.6m No I meant each. I think Borini has a fee agreed of about £5m. If they've got more than that for him they've negotiated much better on their sales last summer than they've managed on a purchase for the last twenty year. If they're in league one next season the value of those players will automatically drop no matter how well they've done this season while on loan because everyone knows there's no chance of them playing for them again. From what I read a while back, Djilobollocks has been utter shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1221 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  I think the size of the club will start to be significant in League One. They're a bigger club than Blackburn and Wigan, and will require far less spending to win L1 than they would have to stay up in the Championship. But sure, they could fail. I hope they do. But I'm not counting on it. I don't see how the size of the club helps them when they have nothing to spend. Yes players might be more interested in going there than Northampton but they appear to be so fucked financially (hence bringing in league 1 players this season) I can't see them being able to pay for them. Add to this the culture that has been around the club for years and the fact that they will have endured consecutive relegations, on top of losing generally for the last decade, and I really don't see a club the looks likely to be involved in a promotion push. Unless of course there is a dramatic turnaround in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5176 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Just now, David Kelly said: I don't see how the size of the club helps them when they have nothing to spend. Yes players might be more interested in going there than Northampton but they appear to be so fucked financially (hence bringing in league 1 players this season) I can't see them being able to pay for them. Add to this the culture that has been around the club for years and the fact that they will have endured consecutive relegations, on top of losing generally for the last decade, and I really don't see a club the looks likely to be involved in a promotion push. Unless of course there is a dramatic turnaround in the summer.  Was thinking the loan market tbf. They could still arguably pull decent players based on the fact they were a PL outfit 2 years ago.  I suspect the drop off in standard from the Championship to League One is significant but I've never had to pay attention to League One before. So I could be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1221 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said:  Was thinking the loan market tbf. They could still arguably pull decent players based on the fact they were a PL outfit 2 years ago.  I suspect the drop off in standard from the Championship to League One is significant but I've never had to pay attention to League One before. So I could be wrong. They couldn't manage to utilise the loan market in the Championship despite having spend around a decade in the premier league so I certainly wouldn't bank on them being able to do it in league one. The whole club is fucked from what I can see. I don't rate Coleman anyway but I'll be surprised if he hangs around for next season. Surely this can't have been what he was sold as the outgoing Wales manager. If that's the case I can't imagine they'll be an attractive proposition for other managers beyond the ones who are already at that level. That'll reduce their attractiveness to players further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32718 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 6 hours ago, ewerk said: They’re allowed to make £105m in losses over three seasons. I’m not sure that FFP was the reason behind not spending. Pretty sure they were on the brink of overspending their limit as they'd spunked it all up the previous three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon 13 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 7 hours ago, ewerk said: They’re allowed to make £105m in losses over three seasons. I’m not sure that FFP was the reason behind not spending.  I'm not sure that's right.  IIRC the Championship cap is much lower and the losses they made in while in the Premiership exceeded that amount.  I'm happy to be corrected on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I got that figure wrong. They’re allowed to lose £83m over three years (two in PL and one in Championship). They lost £33m in 15/16, presumably less in 16/17 with the new TV deal and little outlay and I’ve no idea how they’re doing this season but apparently all the players had relegation clauses in their contracts so the wage bill should be cut. Given the profit they made on transfers this season I don’t think their hands were tied, it’s more a case of Short refusing to put his hand in his pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Actually they earned £23m more in PL money in 16/17 than the previous season so you have to assume they made a smaller loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon 13 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 1 hour ago, ewerk said:  all the players had relegation clauses in their contracts  Isn't that one of the problems with Rodwell? He had the clause but they didn't envoke it. They could have others in the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 I meant that their wages were reduced as a result of relegation rather than they could leave on a free. Actually some of them may have had a Defoe like free transfer clause but still couldn't get as good wages even on a free.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12496 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Rodwell will still be on their books in the Conference unless they can get rid of him in administration. He’d be lucky to get offered his weekly salary on a yearly basis with his current reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Rodwell gets a lot of unfair stick from Sunderland fans, he's the only player on their books with a 1 in 2 goal scoring record for them this season. Â 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6986 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Sunderland are being bought by a Newcastle fan    https://twitter.com/sunechosafc/status/982272466868490240  Edited April 6, 2018 by Kid Dynamite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Clearly @ewerk at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 If I could buy them for nothing and put them into administration I’d happily do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I doubt whether O’Brien has anywhere near the money to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10707 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 On 4/5/2018 at 15:47, Rayvin said: I suspect the drop off in standard from the Championship to League One is significant but I've never had to pay attention to League One before. So I could be wrong. You saw how poor the likes of Burton and Rotherham were when we played them though, surely? The bulk of League One teams are as far from Derby as the bulk of Championship sides are from Everton. (They're probably a bad example because they're doing so poorly this year, but you get the jist, right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 I’m very confused as to what point you’re attempting to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdansmith 3207 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, ewerk said: I’m very confused as to what point you’re attempting to make. His point is, he knows more about football than you, and me and everyone else in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30245 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 He definitely knows more than you tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tdansmith 3207 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 i agree tbf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 44 minutes ago, ewerk said: I’m very confused as to what point you’re attempting to make.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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