mackem messageboard gold

[StoneColdStephenIreland 74]

No way he goes back.

[strawb 4268]

3 hours ago, David Kelly said:

A lot less risky than the money they spunked on Ibe or Grabban though.  If they are spending big then they need to be spending on the players with the best chance of producing for them. 

 

Not really because they are one off payments, that are already paid. They are committed to his weekly payments for three years now and he just have blown their record wages out of the water.

 

Not having a go like because I actually think he is a good signing

[The Fish 10858]

16 hours ago, David Kelly said:

A £20m contract for Defoe isn't that mad imo.  If you paid a £15m fee what would it get you in todays market?  And the wages a £15m player would be on would take it well above £20m.  Defoe even at his age is a safer bet than someone you'd pay £15m for.  Obviously there's no resale value but if he keeps them up for another 3 seasons then he more than pays for himself.  And I wouldn't judge his last few months at the mackems.  Ronaldo would have struggled for goals in that side.

 

You think he's got 3 seasons left in him?

[Rayvin 5223]

To be fair to Defoe in this, he's managed his career superbly. Still going to be a PL player at 38 with £130k/week wages because he had the right deal inserted into his Sunderland contract.

[David Kelly 1245]

12 hours ago, strawb said:

 

Not really because they are one off payments, that are already paid. They are committed to his weekly payments for three years now and he just have blown their record wages out of the water.

 

Not having a go like because I actually think he is a good signing

I don't follow your logic there at all.  They spent £15m on Ibe last summer and I imagine with that sort of outlay they would have him on a minimum of a four year contract.  If you guess a £50k a week contract (record signing, coming from Liverpool etc) that's a further £10m that they are committed to over four years.  This is on a player who had played less than 50 premier league games.  That's surely more risky than committing to pay £20m to a player who has managed 15 league goals in each of the last two seasons for a  team who have never been out of the bottom 5?

[David Kelly 1245]

5 minutes ago, The Fish said:

 

You think he's got 3 seasons left in him?

Well he doesn't seem to have lost much pace, hasn't been picking up injuries in the last few years and still seems to have the desire to play at the top level.  For all he seems a bit of a cock, with shit like his personal assistant and fragrance, he actually seems to be a model professional.  So I think he could manage it.

He'll be pushing 38 at the end of that contract if he sees it out so there is obviously a risk but even if he only manages two seasons, at £10m a season I still think it's a risk worth taking for them when you consider the rewards of staying in the premier league.  He'll probably have a similar clause to what he's had at the Mackems if they were to go down so I doubt they'd be stuck paying him that if they lose the premier league money.

[The Fish 10858]

3 hours ago, David Kelly said:

Well he doesn't seem to have lost much pace, hasn't been picking up injuries in the last few years and still seems to have the desire to play at the top level.  For all he seems a bit of a cock, with shit like his personal assistant and fragrance, he actually seems to be a model professional.  So I think he could manage it.

He'll be pushing 38 at the end of that contract if he sees it out so there is obviously a risk but even if he only manages two seasons, at £10m a season I still think it's a risk worth taking for them when you consider the rewards of staying in the premier league.  He'll probably have a similar clause to what he's had at the Mackems if they were to go down so I doubt they'd be stuck paying him that if they lose the premier league money.

Just think 3yrs is a risk. He's been decent for Sunderland, but hasn't scored much since his England call up. He's not a Big Lump who you bring on to close out a game, he's a poacher. Much like the T-Rex's vision, his game's based on movement. One hamstring injury, one turned ankle will have him out the game for a while and he'll be poorer on his return, and both of those injuries are more likely now he's basically an old man.

[David Kelly 1245]

36 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Just think 3yrs is a risk. He's been decent for Sunderland, but hasn't scored much since his England call up. He's not a Big Lump who you bring on to close out a game, he's a poacher. Much like the T-Rex's vision, his game's based on movement. One hamstring injury, one turned ankle will have him out the game for a while and he'll be poorer on his return, and both of those injuries are more likely now he's basically an old man.

I've never suggested he's not a risk.  I just don't think he's more of a risk than us spending £6m or whatever it was on a donkey like Riviere or even £13m on Mitrovic.   He's a player who's regularly proved he can score at this level and do so even playing for a team that is often under the cosh and not creating chances.

 

I would also disagree that he's been decent for Sunderland.  Given the absolute state their team has been since he arrived there he's been absolutely brilliant.  Yes he's not done much recently but I think his head dropped after their poor January and if you've watched any of their games, you'll have seen how little service he got.

 

People on here mocked the mackems when they signed him and I said at the time even with the amount they were paying for him I thought he was a good signing.  I think the same now if Bournemouth sign him.  Yes it's a lot of money and yes if he picks up a bad injury (or even starts just picking up a few normal injuries) it could go against them.  But then again you could say the same about any big signing.

[The Fish 10858]

1 hour ago, David Kelly said:

I've never suggested he's not a risk.  I just don't think he's more of a risk than us spending £6m or whatever it was on a donkey like Riviere or even £13m on Mitrovic.   He's a player who's regularly proved he can score at this level and do so even playing for a team that is often under the cosh and not creating chances.

 

I would also disagree that he's been decent for Sunderland.  Given the absolute state their team has been since he arrived there he's been absolutely brilliant.  Yes he's not done much recently but I think his head dropped after their poor January and if you've watched any of their games, you'll have seen how little service he got.

 

People on here mocked the mackems when they signed him and I said at the time even with the amount they were paying for him I thought he was a good signing.  I think the same now if Bournemouth sign him.  Yes it's a lot of money and yes if he picks up a bad injury (or even starts just picking up a few normal injuries) it could go against them.  But then again you could say the same about any big signing.

Fair points, but that's an awfully big chunk of money for Defoe that you'll never see again.

 

I mean, Riviere and Mitrovic were bought and despite the former's failure we'll still probably get some money back for him. I'm not as harsh on Mitrovic as a big portion of the fanbase so I'd not be surprised if he does ok in the Premier League or we get a big chunk of our money back.

 

Just think there are better options for Bournemouth out there who would be on smaller wages and while they'd come with a transfer fee, there's an opportunity to reclaim some of that from a future sale.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Looks like the Makems are going to hire Derek McInnes from Aberdeen.

[ewerk 30620]

22 hours ago, David Kelly said:

 

 

 

It wouldn't be a great move for McInnes, I'd imagine that there must be more attractive Championship jobs for him in the near future than Sunderland.

[wolfy 12]

No doubt Ellis will give him a nice contract if he does employ him.

Probably 80,000 times more than what he'll be on at Aberdeen.

 So £250 a week at Aberdeen means £20,000 a week at Sunderland.

 

Does that seem about right or am i overestimating his Aberdeen wages?

[ewerk 30620]

Just really bad at maths.

[David Kelly 1245]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

Fair points, but that's an awfully big chunk of money for Defoe that you'll never see again.

 

I mean, Riviere and Mitrovic were bought and despite the former's failure we'll still probably get some money back for him. I'm not as harsh on Mitrovic as a big portion of the fanbase so I'd not be surprised if he does ok in the Premier League or we get a big chunk of our money back.

 

Just think there are better options for Bournemouth out there who would be on smaller wages and while they'd come with a transfer fee, there's an opportunity to reclaim some of that from a future sale.

I didn't mean to be harsh on Mitro (although by using him in a similar context as Riviere it obviously seems like I was), I agree he could still do well for us.  But we spent £13m on him to be the main striker to keep us in the premier league.  That was a failure.  Because of taking the risk of making a young lad who had only played in Serbia and Belgium our main striker, we were relegated and lost tens of millions in tv revenue alone.  If he's on £30k a week say, we spent more than £15m on him.  So in one season we spent £15m and got pretty much the worst possible result we could have.  Bournemouth will spend less than £7m on him in the first season and I'd say he provides a much better chance of them staying in the division than Mitro did.  Ok Mitro has a resale value that Defoe won't have after even just one season but that's peanuts compared to the tv money.

 

Out of interest, who would you put forward as a better option for them?  Or us for that matter.

[Rayvin 5223]

For me the issue is whether or not any other club would have gone anywhere near that amount. It's all well and good saying it makes sense but if no one else would have paid more than half that, then they've overpaid.

[Kid Dynamite 7031]

Other sources reporting he's on £80kpw with a £6mil signing on fee 

[ohhh_yeah 2967]

 

Jason Denayer involved in a 6 a.m. bar brawl in Brussels.

 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

I would have loved us to get Defoe. 

[TheGingerQuiff 2412]

I hate him. Whinging cockbag of a player. That thing he does where he rolls his man, runs into hos legs then throws his hands up in the air wanting a penalty/free-kick makes me want to punch him every time. His decent recent goal return for the mackems I think was a purple patch, he won't be taking that form into next season. 

[The Fish 10858]

14 hours ago, David Kelly said:

I didn't mean to be harsh on Mitro (although by using him in a similar context as Riviere it obviously seems like I was), I agree he could still do well for us.  But we spent £13m on him to be the main striker to keep us in the premier league.  That was a failure.  Because of taking the risk of making a young lad who had only played in Serbia and Belgium our main striker, we were relegated and lost tens of millions in tv revenue alone.  If he's on £30k a week say, we spent more than £15m on him.  So in one season we spent £15m and got pretty much the worst possible result we could have.  Bournemouth will spend less than £7m on him in the first season and I'd say he provides a much better chance of them staying in the division than Mitro did.  Ok Mitro has a resale value that Defoe won't have after even just one season but that's peanuts compared to the tv money.

 

Out of interest, who would you put forward as a better option for them?  Or us for that matter.

 

 

Hang on, we weren't relegated because Mitrovic only scored 9 goals in a shit team. We were relegated because we had a poorly coached, poorly motivated and poorly constructed squad. Judge on his own successes and failures. 1st season, 9 goals in a relegated side managed by an idiot. 2nd season didn't take the limited opportunities he had and looked ill-disciplined as he tried to, but very much not the kind of striker the current manager likes to use (big powerful headerer vs nippy mobile pest)

 

I see him as a not-yet-failed signing. If he isn't played, scores 4-5 and looks like a headless chicken whenever he crosses the white line we'll be wise to get shot and accept that we'll not make any money. If he scores 9 next year and we finish 12th he'll have repaid some the c£15m we've spent and should he do that and attract suitors, he'll certainly fetch a decent price because of his age, his experience and his previously decent goal scoring feats.

 

Bournemouth already have a decent striker in King, they need to add a different option, they need to buy a statement player too. If they can get Batshuayi on loan, Sturridge? Maybe even Carroll? Sturridge is a risk because of his attitude and his streaky form, Carroll a risk because of his injury record. 

[David Kelly 1245]

2 hours ago, The Fish said:

 

 

Hang on, we weren't relegated because Mitrovic only scored 9 goals in a shit team. We were relegated because we had a poorly coached, poorly motivated and poorly constructed squad. Judge on his own successes and failures. 1st season, 9 goals in a relegated side managed by an idiot. 2nd season didn't take the limited opportunities he had and looked ill-disciplined as he tried to, but very much not the kind of striker the current manager likes to use (big powerful headerer vs nippy mobile pest)

 

I see him as a not-yet-failed signing. If he isn't played, scores 4-5 and looks like a headless chicken whenever he crosses the white line we'll be wise to get shot and accept that we'll not make any money. If he scores 9 next year and we finish 12th he'll have repaid some the c£15m we've spent and should he do that and attract suitors, he'll certainly fetch a decent price because of his age, his experience and his previously decent goal scoring feats.

 

Bournemouth already have a decent striker in King, they need to add a different option, they need to buy a statement player too. If they can get Batshuayi on loan, Sturridge? Maybe even Carroll? Sturridge is a risk because of his attitude and his streaky form, Carroll a risk because of his injury record. 

You're missing my point.  I'm not in any way having a go at Mitrovic or claiming he is the reason we were relegated.  But the transfer policy that we have had up to the point of Rafa being allowed more freedom, was to sign young unproven players who will hopefully have a sell on value that can make us money.  That coupled with poor coaching (though I'm not at all convinced McClaren was a poor coach) and motivation (largely brought about by the poor recruitment policy which lead to the poorly constructed squad) is what took us down.  But if we'd adjusted that recruitment policy and signed someone like Defoe who is proven and has experience and was what the squad needed, we would have been, imo, in a much better position to stay up.  We would probably have a player with no sell on value but we would have already reaped far greater financial benefits anyway.

 

I'm not convinced King is near to the same quality as Defoe because of a six month purple patch.  We saw with Cisse how a striker can go on a good run and never be able to recapture that form.  And Cisse's record outside his incredible form when he first arrived is far better than King's has ever been.  Again it's a risk to bank on King as much as it is to sign Defoe.  Carroll and Sturridge both have injury records that make them as big a risk as Defoe even at his age and I'd say Sturridge has had a questionable attitude even when he's been at much bigger clubs than Bournemouth.  I think he'd be a terrible signing for him despite his undoubted talent.  Batshuayi I agree would be a better lower cost, lower risk option if they could get him.  If Chelsea are willing to let him go out on loan he'd be a great option for them (or us) if they could get him.

[David Kelly 1245]

15 hours ago, Rayvin said:

For me the issue is whether or not any other club would have gone anywhere near that amount. It's all well and good saying it makes sense but if no one else would have paid more than half that, then they've overpaid.

Well that could be said of any signing.  I'm guessing they won't be paying him that much more than others would be prepared to pay though.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

On 25 May 2017 at 5:59 AM, TheGingerQuiff said:

I hate him. Whinging cockbag of a player. That thing he does where he rolls his man, runs into hos legs then throws his hands up in the air wanting a penalty/free-kick makes me want to punch him every time. His decent recent goal return for the mackems I think was a purple patch, he won't be taking that form into next season. 

The cheating bastard does like to back into the defender,make contact,continue the contact,turn then dive.Cheating makem bastard.Just like ratboy,he fucked about as the makem ship sank.

 

 

 

 

[ewerk 30620]

Everton have apparently opened the bidding for Pickford at £8m.

 

I reckon we should go in at £9m.

[Rayvin 5223]

 £8m. RTG will be going fucking nuts at that.