Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I like Dempsey but if he goes anywhere, it'll be to start every game and we'll be held to ransom for him too. I bet he's going to cost upward of £12 million and the bloke is nearly 30 so will want his one final contract. Leave that sort of deal for the sides that can afford to spunk that money away. I see your point but my opinion ( and feel free to debate this) is that Dempsey is the real deal. He just turned 29 and is in his prime and 23 goals and 7 assists from midfield in an otherwise mediocre Fulham team? He isnt exactly charlie adam. Arteta is a year older and is delivering the goods for Arsenal. To me he is a straight upgrade from Jonas, his end product is immense. We would be sacrificing a bit of defensive graft, but if we get debauchy in that might be acceptable anyway. Edited April 23, 2012 by Lake Bells tits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 His age make Dempsey is a non starter. The club's said time and again they won't buy players with fuck all resale value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Aye Dempsey is a quality player, but he's not for us. If anything he'd be in direct competition with HBA and I'd rather have what we've already got. Why the need to suggest so many signings this summer? The nucleus of the squad is good, it needs enhancing, not replacing. Full backs and a Central Defender are the key positions. After than it's a case of padding out the squad with better choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 A shame, 29 is no age for a midfielder. People are getting obsessed with the age thing, over 25 and you are on the decline appearently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I see your point but my opinion ( and feel free to debate this) is that Dempsey is the real deal. He just turned 29 and is in his prime and 23 goals and 7 assists from midfield in an otherwise mediocre Fulham team? He isnt exactly charlie adam. Arteta is a year older and is delivering the goods for Arsenal. To me he is a straight upgrade from Jonas, his end product is immense. We would be sacrificing a bit of defensive graft, but if we get debauchy in that might be acceptable anyway. Right, you sign him on a four year deal but he could only have one season left in him? It's mental, man. Exactly the sort of shit the mackems and Liverpool do. Why do that when you could unearth a similar deal to Cabaye? It's short-sighted scouting. Also, Debuchy is a right back, how is he going to help the graft in the middle of the pitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Aye Dempsey is a quality player, but he's not for us. If anything he'd be in direct competition with HBA and I'd rather have what we've already got. Why the need to suggest so many signings this summer? The nucleus of the squad is good, it needs enhancing, not replacing. Full backs and a Central Defender are the key positions. After than it's a case of padding out the squad with better choice. Jonas needs competition Imo. Noone is benefitting from playing 90 minutes every game, both physically and mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Aye Dempsey is a quality player, but he's not for us. If anything he'd be in direct competition with HBA and I'd rather have what we've already got. Why the need to suggest so many signings this summer? The nucleus of the squad is good, it needs enhancing, not replacing. Full backs and a Central Defender are the key positions. After than it's a case of padding out the squad with better choice. Agreed. People forget we've got two young central midfielders coming through who are highly rated too. Strengthen the full back positions, sign a centre half, get a young, hungry striker in and a right winger. That should be the plan if only those expected to leave do so (Lovenkrands, Smith etc.); if Guthrie and/or Simpson go, there should be replacements for them too, obviously. You're looking at about 5/6 players coming in and rightfully so. You don't see Man United uplifting their entire squad every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4729 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Currently Jonas has Guthrie, Marveaux and Ferguson not to mention the other young midfield boys all vying for his place so I think we are ok there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Jonas needs competition Imo. Noone is benefitting from playing 90 minutes every game, both physically and mentally. Guthrie, Abeid, Vuckic, Gosling, Perch? If Guthrie goes, they'll get another CM. Why spend £12/15 million on a 29 year old? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4729 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 And lets face it, they're are probably going to bring in a few players on nobodys radar who are excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Right, you sign him on a four year deal but he could only have one season left in him? It's mental, man. Exactly the sort of shit the mackems and Liverpool do. Why do that when you could unearth a similar deal to Cabaye? It's short-sighted scouting. Also, Debuchy is a right back, how is he going to help the graft in the middle of the pitch? I just disagree with the suggestion that any player in their late 20`s "could have one season left in them". Has Dempsey ever been better? He is in his absolute prime, not a "could be good in 3 years" player. Ive watched Dempsey quite a few times this season. He is a magnificent player, baffles me why you think he is in the Adam/liverpool/mackem mould. Buying any player is a risk, but going by how he has been this season - 10 mill would be a bargain if he could replicate that form next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Guthrie, Abeid, Vuckic, Gosling, Perch? If Guthrie goes, they'll get another CM. Why spend £12/15 million on a 29 year old? None of those players are even on the same planet as Dempsey. Valuation is speculative, what if we got him for 8? 29 is nothing for a midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I just disagree with the suggestion that any player in their late 20`s "could have one season left in them". Has Dempsey ever been better? He is in his absolute prime, not a "could be good in 3 years" player. Ive watched Dempsey quite a few times this season. He is a magnificent player, baffles me why you think he is in the Adam/liverpool/mackem mould. Buying any player is a risk, but going by how he has been this season - 10 mill would be a bargain if he could replicate that form next season. He is a good player. He's also 29. I know that players can keep their form going as they age but it's a risk that's not worth taking for daft Premier League prices IMO, especially when our scouting system has proven to be so adept at spending money well. I meant Dempsey is the type of signing Liverpool will make based on a season of good form btw, not that he's as average as Adam, man. Howay. Magnificent is definitely overstating it as well, mind Xavi is a magnificent player, Dempsey is a good PL player, having a good season in a side basically built around him. You won't get him for £10 million either. My point is that there's absolutely no suggestion he'll do it in our style of play, you're shoe-horning him into a position where you limit his goal potential (ball-winning midfielder sitting deep in a midfield 3) and if he doesn't do well, you've got him until he's 33, probably on big wages and it's money you could have spent elsewhere. I'd rather spend that £10 million on full-backs. I think Cabaye will prove to be better in that advanced CM role anyway FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 A shame, 29 is no age for a midfielder. People are getting obsessed with the age thing, over 25 and you are on the decline appearently. I'm talking about the club's well documented transfer policy. What's the point of advocating a transfer that has no chance of happening? He doesn't fit the profile even if he was on a free transfer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 None of those players are even on the same planet as Dempsey. Valuation is speculative, what if we got him for 8? 29 is nothing for a midfielder. Dempsey doesn't play the same way as any of those. You want him brought in to play in Jonas' role in the 4-3-3 but want him to play entirely differently? There's better signings about, it's a daft suggestion for NUFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I'm talking about the club's well documented transfer policy. What's the point of advocating a transfer that has no chance of happening? He doesn't fit the profile even if he was on a free transfer..... Thats taking it a bit far like, if he was a free transfer he would be in the chopper already. Fair point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He is a good player. He's also 29. I know that players can keep their form going as they age but it's a risk that's not worth taking for daft Premier League prices IMO, especially when our scouting system has proven to be so adept at spending money well. Magnificent is definitely overstating it as well, mind Xavi is a magnificent player, Dempsey is a good PL player, having a good season in a side basically built around him. You won't get him for £10 million either. My point is that there's absolutely no suggestion he'll do it in our style of play, you're shoe-horning him into a position where you limit his goal potential (ball-winning midfielder sitting deep in a midfield 3) and if he doesn't do well, you've got him until he's 33, probably on big wages and it's money you could have spent elsewhere. I'd rather spend that £10 million on full-backs. If Dempsey is simply a good PL-player by being a 25-goal a season midfielder in a shite team, what does that make all the other midfielders in the PL Lets say we play him like Jonas, is Jonas suddenly a deepsitting midfielder? He is a different sort of player sure, but he also offers alot more going forward and a whole new dimension of endgame compared to Jonas. Its an offensive suggestion but keeping the ball and creating chances is also a good way of defending. Anyway I realise he is too old for ashley, I just disagree that he is too old for fotball. You see 29 as a gamble in terms of age, I just dont. Midfielder prime age is 27-32, but everyone is obsessed with "potential" nowadays and less about current and actual ability. Shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6682 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Thats taking it a bit far like, if he was a free transfer he would be in the chopper already. Fair point though. Absolute nonsense. Gone are the days when we made knee-jerk signings like that. Free transfers tend to end up with higher wages to compensate for the lack of a signing on fee. Current transfer policy suggests a careful selection process and nearly all of our signings are for an 'undisclosed fee'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Clint Dempsey on a free transfer, wouldnt even be a discussion. As far from knee-jerk as you can possibly get, the entire top-6 would be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Thats taking it a bit far like, if he was a free transfer he would be in the chopper already. Fair point though. Sorry but no. The club has said time and again their aim is to sign young players with a sell on value, not players in their prime who demand top dollar and whose sell on value will be negligible. My free transfer comment was slightly tongue in cheek but you have to pay signing on fees and bigger wages so I think the point still stands. The only player in the region of 30 I can recall us signing recently is Colo, and he's our club captain and an absolutely pivotal player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) How does demba ba fit into that policy? 27, exploding knee, signed him despite a clause that gives us fuck all if he goes. There was no resale value whatsoever and ashley knew that before signing him. Ashley is a maverick and an opportunist. Our blueprint is young players with resale value, that doesnt mean its set in stone. If a very good player becomes available for massively less than he is worth or even for free, we arent above striking to get them. Being tied to a policy of only signing young players would limit us and is stupid. You could call Ashley many things, but he is not stupid. Anyway silly debate as he wont be free but if he was, suggesting that "we wouldnt go anywhere near him" is a step too far. Edited April 23, 2012 by Lake Bells tits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 If Dempsey is simply a good PL-player by being a 25-goal a season midfielder in a shite team, what does that make all the other midfielders in the PL Completely misreading the point. Doing it on purpose? Lets say we play him like Jonas, is Jonas suddenly a deepsitting midfielder? He is a different sort of player sure, but he also offers alot more going forward and a whole new dimension of endgame compared to Jonas. Its an offensive suggestion but keeping the ball and creating chances is also a good way of defending. He has been a deep midfielder in this 4-3-3, aye. Jonas and Tiote pressure win the ball back, get it to Cabaye/Ben Arfa to create. Craig is right in that if he was to come in, the only place he's going to fit is out wide or up front, positions where we have, quite frankly, better players tbh. Anyway I realise he is too old for ashley, I just disagree that he is too old for fotball. You see 29 as a gamble in terms of age, I just dont. Midfielder prime age is 27-32, but everyone is obsessed with "potential" nowadays and less about current and actual ability. Shame really. Completely missing my point again, man. I didn't say 29 was too old for a player, it's certainly too old to spunking £15 million on them though. Unless they're established top class. When was the last time Dempsey got 25 goals in a season? Players generally peak earlier these days too IMO, it's closer to 24-28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Where does demba ba fit into that policy? 27, exploding knee, signed him despite a clause that gives us fuck all if he goes. There was no resale value whatsoever and ashley knew that before signing him. Bullshit. He was just 26 when he signed for us. He passed his medical. He had half a season of PL football under his belt and suffered no ill effects. Plus Pardew has lots of contacts with West Ham, and I bet the club did a load of due diligence on him too before they signed. No resale value? Bullshit, sir, bullshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 He has a knee issue, saying he passed his medical with us means fuck all. Everyone knows about his knee. How much would we get for him if we sold him now then? Why are we desperate to sign a new contract with him? Because we get fuck all back for him on his current contract which we gave him coming on a free, which again proves my point. We werent that bothered with the resale value since he came cheap ( and we didnt think he would be THIS good either). He has a clause around 7 million where half of it goes to him leaving us with 3,5 million or so minus fees etc etc. What a nice resale value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 13894 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Bullshit. He was just 26 when he signed for us. He passed his medical. He had half a season of PL football under his belt and suffered no ill effects. Plus Pardew has lots of contacts with West Ham, and I bet the club did a load of due diligence on him too before they signed. No resale value? Bullshit, sir, bullshit Aye, it's mental. Ba was a 26 year old who had scored everywhere. Signing Dempsey based on this season for £15 million is a Kenny Dalglish move and I won't hear anything other said against it. Arteta hasn't been that good for Arsenal anyway to get back to a previous point. Very definition of stop-gap signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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