Football Clubs & Debt

[LeazesMag 0]

you can't guarantee anything in football though, simply spending money doesn't equal automatic success - if you take a shot at goal might not score but if you don't take a shot you won't do it anyway.

 

Man City may not win the league, in fact I've always thought ManU would win the league, but from a Man City perspective, finishing 2nd is a damn sight better than playing in the 3rd division like they were a decade or so ago.

 

Are you arguing against yourself?

 

Let's take Liverpool as an example. £150m spent, yet they're below us and are building their team around an ageing captain with dodgy groins and hamstrings. Would you like us to follow their approach?

 

Liverpool's approach is the same as that which has won them a shitload of trophies over 40 years, including a big shiny trophy recently. Would you prefer us/preferred us to adopt the sell and replace policy of now instead ? It is the policiy adopted by every successful club there has ever been. Just because it isn't so successful in recent times as in the past doesn't make it wrong, this is down to personnel and the fact that there is only 3 trophies and a few other european places to define "success", not the policy.

 

I have a feeling that this gloating of Liverpool's "misfortune" will be short lived, to be honest. Unfortunately.

[Happy Face 29]

 

Are you arguing against yourself?

 

 

You'll soon get used to Leazes.

[Gemmill 44556]

 

Are you arguing against yourself?

 

 

You'll soon get used to Leazes.

 

In the previous post he asked "how can you disagree with logic?". Stick around and he'll put a fucking clinic on for you.

[LeazesMag 0]

Are you arguing against yourself?

 

 

You'll soon get used to Leazes.

 

In the previous post he asked "how can you disagree with logic?". Stick around and he'll put a fucking clinic on for you.

 

any reason for that ? And who said what you are claiming ? Or [note for your mate] is it different for you ?

 

Try to be constructive and explain what exactly you disagree with for a change instead of making things up.

Edited March 28, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Baggio 0]

Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool top the net spend table, with Arsenal and Newcastle United at the bottom, with Sunderland more extravagant than Manchester United.

 

We all know Manchester City are flush with wealth, but until the figures are laid bare, it is often difficult to appreciate the scale of their spending power.

 

Here is the Premier League table alternate top 10, by net spend, for figures over the past five seasons, from 2007/08 to 2011/12.

 

Manchester City: £430.77 million

 

Chelsea: £159.7 million

 

Liverpool: £99.25 million

 

Sunderland: £57.6 million

 

Tottenham Hotspur: £49.4 million

 

Manchester United: £47.25 million

 

Swansea City: £8.25 million

 

Everton: £5 million

 

Newcastle United: -£30.25 million

 

Arsenal: -£31.3 million

 

The immediate standout conclusion from this table is just how far ahead Manchester City are above everybody else, with Sheikh Mansour's wealth putting Roman Abramovich in the shade, yet this is the price of propelling a mid-table Premier League club to battling it out at the summit of the Premier League.

 

What does it say about the Premier League, which is usually such a closed shop and used to feature the same 'big four' teams, that it takes such a disproportionate amount of spending for a team to rise from mediocrity to have a chance of winning it.

 

Over in the NFL in America this is the exact reason the sport has salary caps and drafts, to prevent clubs becoming so far ahead of others, and to attempt to stop the distance between the clubs at the top and bottom from expanding. If that had happened over here, City may have been able to reach the top organically, rather than being forced to splash the cash to compete.

 

Liverpool and Sunderland's net spend is also interesting, and both clubs should be asking themselves right now what exactly do the have to show for it?

 

Manchester United's low spend is offset by the major £80 million fee recouped by the sale of Cristiano Ronaldo, but supporters who used to relish in their financial power, will remain sceptical of their owners the Glazers when their net spend averages under £10 million a season over the past five years. Do they have the capability to compete for the world's best players?

 

Newcastle United and Arsenal supporters should have the biggest smiles, especially considering their league positions up against these figures, they are both clearly overperforming their financial status, Newcastle in 6th and Arsenal 3rd.

 

Arsenal of course have kept their net spend so low by selling major stars, such as Cesc Fabregas, Samir Nasri and Emmanuel Adebayor for huge sums, and fans will hope this trend comes to an end this summer and they keep Robin van Persie. The Gunners finances are in a healthy state, and they reportedly have a £50 million plus transfer kitty, so there is no financial need to sell him.

 

Newcastle fans will likewise be impressed at Mike Ashley's financial model, but will now want the club to kick on, and keep their major stars such as Cheik Tiote. They will also smile at the fact they are above rivals Sunderland in the Premier League, despite spending far less.

 

http://hereisthecity.com/2012/03/29/the-staggering-disparities-of-the-premier-league-top-10-by-net-s/

Edited March 30, 2012 by Baggio

[JawD 99]

Its one of them isnt it. Would you rather we spent the £50 odd million sunderland have and be where they are in the league? The argument then of course is if we had spent what they had where could we have been? Trouble is, there is no guarantee. If we had spent what they had our team would look different and that doesnt mean we would necessarily be further up the table. Any "possible" scenario is pure speculation. Fact is, we're in 6th spending (or not) what we have and that surely is better than being here having spent more?

[LeazesMag 0]

Its one of them isnt it. Would you rather we spent the £50 odd million sunderland have and be where they are in the league? The argument then of course is if we had spent what they had where could we have been? Trouble is, there is no guarantee. If we had spent what they had our team would look different and that doesnt mean we would necessarily be further up the table. Any "possible" scenario is pure speculation. Fact is, we're in 6th spending (or not) what we have and that surely is better than being here having spent more?

 

exactly.

 

Liverpool have one trophy in the cupboard, are 7th in the league and in the semi final of another major cup, to "show for their money".

 

These sort of knee jerk short term reactions, based on one season or a short run of results, that try to "prove" selling and replacing is a viable alternative to genuine ambition and building and improving, are a joke. Anybody who knows anything about football knows such policies do not succeed in the long run.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860]

Its one of them isnt it. Would you rather we spent the £50 odd million sunderland have and be where they are in the league? The argument then of course is if we had spent what they had where could we have been? Trouble is, there is no guarantee. If we had spent what they had our team would look different and that doesnt mean we would necessarily be further up the table. Any "possible" scenario is pure speculation. Fact is, we're in 6th spending (or not) what we have and that surely is better than being here having spent more?

 

exactly.

 

Liverpool have one trophy in the cupboard, are 7th in the league and in the semi final of another major cup, to "show for their money".

 

These sort of knee jerk short term reactions, based on one season or a short run of results, that try to "prove" selling and replacing is a viable alternative to genuine ambition and building and improving, are a joke. Anybody who knows anything about football knows such policies do not succeed in the long run.

 

I would say that the new model of sell and replace has never been tried in the long run.

 

Yes teams in the lower divisions have sold and then replaced but have they had the opportunity to scout the globe and look for players possibly better than what they sold. The answer has to be no.

 

However We are trying to improve our financial standing as well as on the pitch. This has to be done to fit in with eufa's fair play rules. Does anyone know how many clubs actually adhere to the new rules?

[LeazesMag 0]

Its one of them isnt it. Would you rather we spent the £50 odd million sunderland have and be where they are in the league? The argument then of course is if we had spent what they had where could we have been? Trouble is, there is no guarantee. If we had spent what they had our team would look different and that doesnt mean we would necessarily be further up the table. Any "possible" scenario is pure speculation. Fact is, we're in 6th spending (or not) what we have and that surely is better than being here having spent more?

 

exactly.

 

Liverpool have one trophy in the cupboard, are 7th in the league and in the semi final of another major cup, to "show for their money".

 

These sort of knee jerk short term reactions, based on one season or a short run of results, that try to "prove" selling and replacing is a viable alternative to genuine ambition and building and improving, are a joke. Anybody who knows anything about football knows such policies do not succeed in the long run.

 

I would say that the new model of sell and replace has never been tried in the long run.

 

Yes teams in the lower divisions have sold and then replaced but have they had the opportunity to scout the globe and look for players possibly better than what they sold. The answer has to be no.

 

However We are trying to improve our financial standing as well as on the pitch. This has to be done to fit in with eufa's fair play rules. Does anyone know how many clubs actually adhere to the new rules?

 

"sell and replace" has been in operation for decades by all the clubs who do absolutely nothing apart from a few short term seasons of rising to a decent position which is never sustained, never seriously challenge the big clubs, and ultimately get relegated, including NUFC in the 1960's, 70's, 80's and in the last 4 years.

 

The "new rules" won't change a thing if the owners don't want to show ambition and mount a challenge, they still won't do it.

[Gemmill 44556]

As things currently stand, selling and replacing (which now feel like dirty words) is working. So can you shut up about being right until you actually are? As things currently stand, you're wrong.

[LeazesMag 0]

As things currently stand, selling and replacing (which now feel like dirty words) is working. So can you shut up about being right until you actually are? As things currently stand, you're wrong.

 

why don't you shut the fuck up yourself until I ask you something, as you didn't bother replying when I did ask you to comment on what I've been saying for years that you say is "rubbish" but is happening.

 

Hopefully your mate will see this unasked for interruption and not blame me for it.

[Gemmill 44556]

Come back when you're right, wrongboy.

[LeazesMag 0]

Come back when you're right, wrongboy.

 

answer what I asked you if it is so wrong, shitforbrains.

[Happy Face 29]

Liverpool last finished outside the top 7 18 years ago. Their current position (even with a trophy in their pocket and another on the cards) is seen as very poor, considering they finished second 3 seasons ago and have spent considerably since.

 

Being 6th is currently a cause for great celebration for us, having not finished in the top 6 for 8 years and having been relegated 3 years ago and spent relatively little since.

 

The overall balance of power hasn't shifted between the teams at all though, whatever has happened this season and whatever either team spent achieving it. It's not changed any more than it had between Everton and Liverpool in 2005 when Everton took 4th off them. Liverpool were and are still a team who will go out and try to challenge next year, who better players will want to go to. Everything the club says suggests we (like Everton) will remain a feeder club, unwilling to risk an audacious transfer bid or knock back an attractive offer for our best players.

[LeazesMag 0]

Liverpool last finished outside the top 7 18 years ago. Their current position (even with a trophy in their pocket and another on the cards) is seen as very poor, considering they finished second 3 seasons ago and have spent considerably since.

 

Being 6th is currently a cause for great celebration for us, having not finished in the top 6 for 8 years and having been relegated 3 years ago and spent relatively little since.

 

The overall balance of power hasn't shifted between the teams at all though, whatever has happened this season and whatever either team spent achieving it. It's not changed any more than it had between Everton and Liverpool in 2005 when Everton took 4th off them. Liverpool were and are still a team who will go out and try to challenge next year, who better players will want to go to. Everything the club says suggests we (like Everton) will remain a feeder club, unwilling to risk an audacious transfer bid or knock back an attractive offer for our best players.

 

in a nutshell again. This Liverpool "misfortune" sour grapes is funny, as is the desperation to "prove" they are doing it all wrong and ought to be doing it like we are doing instead.

[Craig 6682]

Depends on your definition of success really. My definition is based upon where you are season on season. In that mind we are most definitely moving in the right direction and Liverpool are the inverse.

 

Ask Birmingham if they'd have sacrificed the Carling Cup last season for Premiership survival and majority would reply yes.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860]

Why do I keep getting this error when trying to reply?

 

 

The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags.

[Gemmill 44556]

Why do I keep getting this error when trying to reply?

 

 

The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags.

 

Aye it's annoying. Dunno why it's happening.

[ewerk 30394]

Ant was fucking around with limiting quotes a while back, it's been like that since then. Useless spud-munching bog trotter.

[Happy Face 29]

Why do I keep getting this error when trying to reply?

 

 

The number of opening quote tags does not match the number of closing quote tags.

 

Just delete the string of quotes and leave the last one or two.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3860]

I cant reply to Leazes reply to me so here is my reply.

 

Point 1 like I said the spend and replace model where you sell those who want to leave or for whom you get a ridiculous offer for and replace with heavily scouted talented players.

 

Point 2 the new rules are to stop clubbs spending more than they make. Not sure what you are going on about.

[Happy Face 29]

Liverpool last finished outside the top 7 18 years ago. Their current position (even with a trophy in their pocket and another on the cards) is seen as very poor, considering they finished second 3 seasons ago and have spent considerably since.

 

Being 6th is currently a cause for great celebration for us, having not finished in the top 6 for 8 years and having been relegated 3 years ago and spent relatively little since.

 

The overall balance of power hasn't shifted between the teams at all though, whatever has happened this season and whatever either team spent achieving it. It's not changed any more than it had between Everton and Liverpool in 2005 when Everton took 4th off them. Liverpool were and are still a team who will go out and try to challenge next year, who better players will want to go to. Everything the club says suggests we (like Everton) will remain a feeder club, unwilling to risk an audacious transfer bid or knock back an attractive offer for our best players.

 

in a nutshell again. This Liverpool "misfortune" sour grapes is funny, as is the desperation to "prove" they are doing it all wrong and ought to be doing it like we are doing instead.

 

I think most people are just enjoying it while it lasts. I'd be surprised if many posters would bet against Liverpool finishing above us next year.

[LeazesMag 0]

Liverpool last finished outside the top 7 18 years ago. Their current position (even with a trophy in their pocket and another on the cards) is seen as very poor, considering they finished second 3 seasons ago and have spent considerably since.

 

Being 6th is currently a cause for great celebration for us, having not finished in the top 6 for 8 years and having been relegated 3 years ago and spent relatively little since.

 

The overall balance of power hasn't shifted between the teams at all though, whatever has happened this season and whatever either team spent achieving it. It's not changed any more than it had between Everton and Liverpool in 2005 when Everton took 4th off them. Liverpool were and are still a team who will go out and try to challenge next year, who better players will want to go to. Everything the club says suggests we (like Everton) will remain a feeder club, unwilling to risk an audacious transfer bid or knock back an attractive offer for our best players.

 

in a nutshell again. This Liverpool "misfortune" sour grapes is funny, as is the desperation to "prove" they are doing it all wrong and ought to be doing it like we are doing instead.

 

I think most people are just enjoying it while it lasts. I'd be surprised if many posters would bet against Liverpool finishing above us next year.

 

of course, aren't we all, but it what you say is true, why is there so many people disagreeing with me when I point out the difference in policy which will most def ensure this is what happens in the longer term ? Particularly one poster who has jumped in twice already on the last page in this very thread and said absolutely nothing at all apart from make silly remarks as usual ?

Edited March 30, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Baggio 0]

If we finish above them this season it will be the 2nd time in something like 15 seasons so you can't blame people for not betting we will finish above them tbf.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Baggio

[Happy Face 29]

If we finish above them this season it will be the 2nd time in something like 15 seasons so you can't blame people for not betting we will finish above them tbf.

 

I'm not blaming anyone. Don't get touchy. I'm just correcting Leazes' view that there's desperation to prove Liverpool are doing it wrong, because very few actually think we'll remain more competitive than them for very long.

Edited March 30, 2012 by Happy Face