wykikitoon 20742 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ive been thinking for a while about this. How is it allowed? If they were any other business a shop or any other business wouldnt be allowed to rack up £500 - £600m worth of debt would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31209 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31209 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 And in answer to your question, I believe that most of the debt owed is not to banks or financial institutions, for a lot of clubs the debt will be owed to their owner, as ours is. Arsenal still owe a fair bit to banks on their stadium mortgage and the Glazers still have a large outstanding debt to investors relating to the purchase of the club but I don't think that there are too many other big examples in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 football is a loss making industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It is, but that doesnt quite answer the question. Any debt for any business has to be secure if the money is from a bank. If you have an owner that is bank rolling you, then that isn not the case. If like most clubs you rely on banks then they will only lend so far as makes commercial sense to themselves. It may be that directors give some personal guarantee for smaller clubs or that a valuation of company assets is set against a loan. I dont imagine this could include players so I suppose this could only include property etc and perhaps a bank may agree a loan against future income, though thats risky. All debt needs to be serviced and a bank will not simply write money off as the business is making a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 It is, but that doesnt quite answer the question. Any debt for any business has to be secure if the money is from a bank. If you have an owner that is bank rolling you, then that isn not the case. If like most clubs you rely on banks then they will only lend so far as makes commercial sense to themselves. It may be that directors give some personal guarantee for smaller clubs or that a valuation of company assets is set against a loan. I dont imagine this could include players so I suppose this could only include property etc and perhaps a bank may agree a loan against future income, though thats risky. All debt needs to be serviced and a bank will not simply write money off as the business is making a loss. that is true, but football clubs just don't go bust and disappear. They never have. Its the nature of the beast and the industry, we can debate it till the cows come home, but they don't. There is a good section in this book which explains the reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31209 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 and you know all the answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31209 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 None of us have all the answers. You do like that book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 yes I do. You ought to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 How do you judge when reading a book will inform and educate Leazes? Rather than misleading you down a namby pamby, ladi dadi, hoity toity, loony lefty, sandal wearing, Guardianista path of do-gooder misinformation lacking any real world experience? Seems to be a fine line, what with all the books you're recommending at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 How do you judge when reading a book will inform and educate Leazes? Rather than misleading you down a namby pamby, ladi dadi, hoity toity, loony lefty, sandal wearing, Guardianista path of do-gooder misinformation lacking any real world experience? Seems to be a fine line, what with all the books you're recommending at the moment. just bomb the bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 slight and temp derail, but where the fuck has that smiley gone ? I've never had it since the board was upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31209 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Same code as before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To compete in the PL you have to have periods of carrying some kind of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To compete in the PL you have to have periods of carrying some kind of debt. exactly. To attempt to succeed, the risk is unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9963 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) To compete in the PL you have to have periods of carrying some kind of debt. As long as it's serviceable or rather manageable, it's not a problem. Hopefully the fair play rules will stop, or at least significantly curtail, the amount of debt. And of course if HMRC sort the football creditors rule, we'll see more apporpriate ramifications for mismanagement. Edited February 24, 2012 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To compete in the PL you have to have periods of carrying some kind of debt. As long as it's serviceable or rather manageable, it's not a problem. Hopefully the fair play rules will stop, or at least significantly curtail, the amount of debt. And of course if HMRC sort the football creditors rule, we'll see more apporpriate ramifications for mismanagement. so when are Rangers going to disappear ? Do you ever post anything about football ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 99 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I expect someone to buy Rangers. They will come in and settle the HMRC debt and take over the club. I think that would happen before the went "pop". Which they very well could, if no one came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9963 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To compete in the PL you have to have periods of carrying some kind of debt. As long as it's serviceable or rather manageable, it's not a problem. Hopefully the fair play rules will stop, or at least significantly curtail, the amount of debt. And of course if HMRC sort the football creditors rule, we'll see more apporpriate ramifications for mismanagement. so when are Rangers going to disappear ? Do you ever post anything about football ? Doubt they will, I've never said any clubs do dissappear, I take it, in your opinion, administration is a good thing and perfectly acceptable ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Is your avatar ye olde Swisse Rambler or summat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9963 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Is your avatar ye olde Swisse Rambler or summat? Nope, is yours Leazes' liver ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Is your avatar ye olde Swisse Rambler or summat? Nope, is yours Leazes' liver ??? No it's the cover of Dross Glop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) As long as it's serviceable or rather manageable, it's not a problem. Hopefully the fair play rules will stop, or at least significantly curtail, the amount of debt. And of course if HMRC sort the football creditors rule, we'll see more apporpriate ramifications for mismanagement. so when are Rangers going to disappear ? Do you ever post anything about football ? Doubt they will, I've never said any clubs do dissappear, I take it, in your opinion, administration is a good thing and perfectly acceptable ???? I take it, in your opinion, selling your best players and not backing the manager is a good thing and perfecty acceptable ? Or is that too much footballing content for you, and above your intellect level ? Edited February 24, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9963 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) so when are Rangers going to disappear ? Do you ever post anything about football ? Doubt they will, I've never said any clubs do dissappear, I take it, in your opinion, administration is a good thing and perfectly acceptable ???? I take it, in your opinion, selling your best players and not backing the manager is a good thing ? Or is that too much footballing content for you, and above your intellect level ? Another question slopey shouldered Selling your best players is a fact of life for every club, if a suitor higher up the food chain comes in (or someone makes a stupid offer), a manager should be backed within the limits a club can afford. Which is what we do, as do all the succesfull clubs (not that we've ever been consistently succesfull since the 50's). Edited February 24, 2012 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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