How do you feel about St James' now compared to in the past

[McFaul 35]

Here man SJH in 1991 wanted us to share a 48000 ground with Sunderland in FUCKIN WASHINGTON! SJH is higher in most peoples esteem than he is mine for lots of reasons.

[McFaul 35]

What was the Leazes development capacity top whack? 60 k? Or was it 65k?

 

Not that much more than SJP got to in the end and not anything we ever ended up needing tbf.

 

Ours redevelopment cost a fortune like given the topography. Didnt the Mackems get a 40,000 seater (as was) for all of £6 million? We paid £45 million for an extra 16,000 seats. Their's is made of Anderson Shelter cast offs like obviously.

The full SOS including their 2001 add on cost £22m. The SJP redevelopment cost £120m from 93-2000. The Castle Leazes ground was for a capacity of 55,000 initially with the option of extending to 70,000.

 

That's it aye-wondered why I couldnt remember a finite figure, it's cos it had the ability to extend.

 

I'm surprised the Mackems ended up £22 million after the add-on, I could have sworn it was only £6 million for the initial 40,000??

Nar it was 15m for the initial 42,000, and £7m for the extra tea-ur on their North Stand.

[manc-mag 1]

Thanks for that, so basically 2 proposed moves were knocked back due to opposition? I wasn't aware of that

 

I don't think Gateshead was ever a serious one like. It was more just John Hall's reaction to Castle Leazes getting stuck in the bureaucratic mire as Stevie* says.

 

*SLP (sorry)

Edited February 16, 2012 by manc-mag

[ajax_andy 0]

great lots of excellent info in these posts so please keep them coming

 

Just so I can nail down things a little more precisely (I only have 500 words to write about all 3 stadiums) can I get answers to the following questions:

 

1) Do you think the atmosphere would have changed if you had moved to a new stadium on the Town Moore or Castle Leazes

2) Do you think the atmosphere was always going to be diluted by the introduction of all seater stadiums

3) Do you think one of the unique match day atmosphere is so good due to following in the same footsteps as previous generations and if you'd move to say the Town Moor that this would have changed the whole feeling of going to a match?

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Thanks for that, so basically 2 proposed moves were knocked back due to opposition? I wasn't aware of that

 

SJH started buying up local teams to make what he called a 'sporting club.' He bought South Gosforth Rugby Club and renamed them the Newcastle Falcons, started the Newcastle Eagles basketball team, and then controversially bought the Durham Wasps which he re branded the Newcastle Cobras. The plan was they would all play out of a revamped SJP. Would have been interesting if it had happened.

[manc-mag 1]

He had that racing car branded up too.

[Christmas Tree 4843]

great lots of excellent info in these posts so please keep them coming

 

Just so I can nail down things a little more precisely (I only have 500 words to write about all 3 stadiums) can I get answers to the following questions:

 

1) Do you think the atmosphere would have changed if you had moved to a new stadium on the Town Moore or Castle Leazes

2) Do you think the atmosphere was always going to be diluted by the introduction of all seater stadiums

3) Do you think one of the unique match day atmosphere is so good due to following in the same footsteps as previous generations and if you'd move to say the Town Moor that this would have changed the whole feeling of going to a match?

 

No (See q2)

Yes

No and Yes (Each generation finds their own groove if you like. Im sure the kids tramping along to the SOL dont give two hoots that their dad used to go to Roker Park. However having a club bang in the centre of Town is much better than on the outskirts and away from all the pubs.

 

Seating killed the atmosphere for me plain and simple. Its quite unbelievable how quiet a full st james can be.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Thanks for that, so basically 2 proposed moves were knocked back due to opposition? I wasn't aware of that

 

I don't think Gateshead was ever a serious one like. It was more just John Hall's reaction to Castle Leazes getting stuck in the bureaucratic mire as Stevie says.

 

Aye, it was done more out of spite and as a threat to the city council. Empty threat in the end like. Would have been an interesting move, ultimately we would only have been moving yards from SJP which meant it wouldn't have been as traumatic or a logistical pain in the arse. Not sure what role the Freeman had in this, as Castle Leazes was there property irrc. I'm sure under the Freedom of Information Act you could get the plans submitted from the local authority.

[Dr Gloom 22181]

the "save a gay whale" brigade

 

[PaddockLad 17684]

Thanks that's a great response So you feel that maybe the club re-developed rather than moved because there weren't really many other possible alternative areas, and that the club has benefitted from this in the long term? Someone made a good point to me about the Taylor report basically ruining the atmosphere at matches to a degree, and they are probably right, however it sounds like St James' still has a good atmosphere. I remember after you last increased the capacyity a lot of people saying it had ruined the atmosphere, do you feel that wasn't the case, or do you feel it's just sorted itself out over time and re-found the atmosphere it had before?

 

 

I think Sir John Hall picked the Town Moor as he knew the reaction it would get, and that made planners let the SJP development go through. Stevie nails it about the increase in capacity. To me though its the passage of time from the Taylor Report. If you weren't brought up on the terraces you (mostly) don't have the "matchday ettiquette" that some of us older ones have. Hence some young shaver, no older than 18, swining punches at me at Brighton last month because I said Ben Arfa had been shite. Honestly, I couldnt fuckin beleive it. In the old days one of us wouldve moved a different part of the terrace. Changed days. Don't think we get the match-long racket of the Keegan years any more and I doubt that will return, mostly as I say due to a "changing of the guard" fan wise. Less old radigies, more fan boys. Many radgies priced out of it too.Shame.

[McFaul 35]

great lots of excellent info in these posts so please keep them coming

 

Just so I can nail down things a little more precisely (I only have 500 words to write about all 3 stadiums) can I get answers to the following questions:

 

1) Do you think the atmosphere would have changed if you had moved to a new stadium on the Town Moore or Castle Leazes

2) Do you think the atmosphere was always going to be diluted by the introduction of all seater stadiums

3) Do you think one of the unique match day atmosphere is so good due to following in the same footsteps as previous generations and if you'd move to say the Town Moor that this would have changed the whole feeling of going to a match?

 

No (See q2)

Yes

No and Yes (Each generation finds their own groove if you like. Im sure the kids tramping along to the SOL dont give two hoots that their dad used to go to Roker Park. However having a club bang in the centre of Town is much better than on the outskirts and away from all the pubs.

 

Seating killed the atmosphere for me plain and simple. Its quite unbelievable how quiet a full st james can be.

It can be electric though it's no different to any other ground. As I said full of people who enjoy walking around garden centres on a Sunday.

[McFaul 35]

Thanks that's a great response So you feel that maybe the club re-developed rather than moved because there weren't really many other possible alternative areas, and that the club has benefitted from this in the long term? Someone made a good point to me about the Taylor report basically ruining the atmosphere at matches to a degree, and they are probably right, however it sounds like St James' still has a good atmosphere. I remember after you last increased the capacyity a lot of people saying it had ruined the atmosphere, do you feel that wasn't the case, or do you feel it's just sorted itself out over time and re-found the atmosphere it had before?

 

 

I think Sir John Hall picked the Town Moor as he knew the reaction it would get, and that made planners let the SJP development go through. Stevie nails it about the increase in capacity. To me though its the passage of time from the Taylor Report. If you weren't brought up on the terraces you (mostly) don't have the "matchday ettiquette" that some of us older ones have. Hence some young shaver, no older than 18, swining punches at me at Brighton last month because I said Ben Arfa had been shite. Honestly, I couldnt fuckin beleive it. In the old days one of us wouldve moved a different part of the terrace. Changed days. Don't think we get the match-long racket of the Keegan years any more and I doubt that will return, mostly as I say due to a "changing of the guard" fan wise. Less old radigies, more fan boys. Many radgies priced out of it too.Shame.

Fanboys every where. To be honest there's fanboys my age even who in effect were KBJ's, todays fanboy is no better nor worse than the KBJ's. The Cardiff game on that friday night was like the old days, faces you hadn't seen for years its better for everybody when it's like that imo.

[McFaul 35]

The type of 21 year old kid who wears their toon top over a shirt, with 69 WOR LASS on the back or ASHLEY 8 MY BURGER. I cringe so bad. I haven't even wore a replica top to a game for maybe 18 years.

[NJS 4411]

I was always in two minds about a new ground. I think one of the things that makes SJP so good is how close it is to the city and I think even an extra 5 or 10 minute walk might have spoiled that a bit.

 

The plan actually produced more green space for public use than exists now. I still think he should have just had the Tory bitch who objected shot.

 

On current make-up of the ground, one of the things that made it less enjoyable before I stopped going was the number of students, posh fuckers and women where I sat. I don't think I could go back there now its supposedly a family bit.

 

 

 

And BTW I say Mirra but then again I'm common as fuck.

[Dr Gloom 22181]

the atmosphere definitely isn't what it was since before the extension went up. even after the the terraces cames down, the atmosphere in the 36k all seater was consistently better than it is today.

 

i love sjp and the atmosphere still can be amazing but the crowd are more reactive these days rather than proactive. often it takes the visit of a big club, or the mackems to get the crowd lively from the start - or a dodgy referee decision or just an amazing display to get us going.

 

so, still can be good but it seems the greater number of fans in the ground has altered the manner the team is backed. it's not just down to the new wave of supporters - it isn't easy for those that want to stand and sing to get things going when they're surrounded by others that would rather sit in silence.

[ajax_andy 0]

I think I've learned a lot from this thread and also one I posted on a makem one... both sides seem to think that it's more to do with the modern day fan, than the arena in which the team plays.

 

I think everyone filtering in, taking their seats and sitting waiting for the match to start changes the complexion of football supporting, and also the way people approach a match day now... and then those who want to be vocal feel it's hard to be so when you have a load of young uns and garden centre lovers looking at you like you have two heads.

 

So what would be the solution? Standing areas? They have them in Germany... do you feel if they introduced these it would help create a better atmosphere as all the loud fans would go to this stand and maybe the noise would filter through to the other supporters would might join in?

[Guest alex]

You'll never get back to the 80s because, as CT says, making the stadiums all-seater killed a lot of the atmosphere. Society has changed too though, you could bring back terracing but it still wouldn't be the same (not that it would ever be for the majority of fans anyway - but even if it was it wouldn't be the same).

Btw, a bloke at the Spurs match last season turned around and asked me to stop swearing. He had his two bairns with him but I wasn't even talking loudly let alone shouting. It was just a private conversation. He was completely out of order - ask Gemmill. He had a fucking southern accent to top things off. He was soft as shit as well (and I didn't threaten him or owt, I didn't even swear at him, I basically told him to have a word with himself and to shut up and watch the match). He moved for the 2nd half. That's the type of toucher you get going to the games these days tbh. Obviously not everyone is like that.

Edited February 16, 2012 by alex

[McFaul 35]

I was always in two minds about a new ground. I think one of the things that makes SJP so good is how close it is to the city and I think even an extra 5 or 10 minute walk might have spoiled that a bit.

 

The plan actually produced more green space for public use than exists now. I still think he should have just had the Tory bitch who objected shot.

 

On current make-up of the ground, one of the things that made it less enjoyable before I stopped going was the number of students, posh fuckers and women where I sat. I don't think I could go back there now its supposedly a family bit.

 

 

 

And BTW I say Mirra but then again I'm common as fuck.

Mirruh man. Yeez say probleas instead of probably too. You can't beat a Newcastle geordie accent imo.

[McFaul 35]

You'll never get back to the 80s because, as CT says, making the stadiums all-seater killed a lot of the atmosphere. Society has changed too though, you could bring back terracing but it still wouldn't be the same (not that it would ever be for the majority of fans anyway - but even if it was it wouldn't be the same).

Btw, a bloke at the Spurs match last season turned around and asked me to stop swearing. He had his two bairns with him but I wasn't even talking loudly let alone swearing. He was completely out of order - ask Gemmill. He had a fucking southern accent to top things off. He was soft as shit as well (and I didn't threaten him or owt, I didn't even swear at him, I basically told him to have a word with himself and to shut up and watch the match). He moved for the 2nd half. That's the type of toucher you get going to the games these days tbh. Obviously not everyone is like that.

Aye that's one thing right, but me mate, a veteran of 300 games plus and a weathered 30 something who with me went home and away in the darkest Ardiles days, told me to stop swearing against Man Utd because there was kids in earshot! I says you've got a free ticket out of the goodness of me heart, I could've given it to numerous people, we're playing Man Utd and Webb is being a cunt?! Fuck off. That's what happens when you become a copper.

[Dr Gloom 22181]

You'll never get back to the 80s because, as CT says, making the stadiums all-seater killed a lot of the atmosphere. Society has changed too though, you could bring back terracing but it still wouldn't be the same (not that it would ever be for the majority of fans anyway - but even if it was it wouldn't be the same).

Btw, a bloke at the Spurs match last season turned around and asked me to stop swearing. He had his two bairns with him but I wasn't even talking loudly let alone swearing. He was completely out of order - ask Gemmill. He had a fucking southern accent to top things off. He was soft as shit as well (and I didn't threaten him or owt, I didn't even swear at him, I basically told him to have a word with himself and to shut up and watch the match). He moved for the 2nd half. That's the type of toucher you get going to the games these days tbh. Obviously not everyone is like that.

 

thing is though, the atmosphere in the 90s after we went all seater was still mint, definitely a lot better than it is today, or at least consistently better - we can still make a lot of noise today but it's sporadic.

 

a lot of that might be down to the football that was played at the time. it's easier to back a side playing champagne football. but there's definitely been a shift since we went from 36k to 52k capacity.

[Happy Face 29]

We def hear more mackem accents at the game, since we got promoted actually. Maybe we've just got more round us. The reason I notice this, and I apologise to any County Durham born fans we have, is that I hate the mackem accent. It really grates on me. It just sounds like our accent gone way wrong.

 

Probs from Shields though I'd imagine? I've met many a person from Shields, Jarrow, Fellgate etc that sound distinctly Makem but support newcastle

Nar they probably sound more like us than mackems, Happy Face and NJS will be pleased to see this crack

 

[Happy Face 29]

Nar they probably sound more like us than mackems, Happy Face and NJS will be pleased to see this crack

 

Not sure about that... they say "mirrow" instead or mirror and anyone who says that is definately Makem (and also stupid in my eyes)

 

I say "Mirrah", dunno where that leaves me. Thought mackems would say "mirreh".

[Guest alex]

You'll never get back to the 80s because, as CT says, making the stadiums all-seater killed a lot of the atmosphere. Society has changed too though, you could bring back terracing but it still wouldn't be the same (not that it would ever be for the majority of fans anyway - but even if it was it wouldn't be the same).

Btw, a bloke at the Spurs match last season turned around and asked me to stop swearing. He had his two bairns with him but I wasn't even talking loudly let alone swearing. He was completely out of order - ask Gemmill. He had a fucking southern accent to top things off. He was soft as shit as well (and I didn't threaten him or owt, I didn't even swear at him, I basically told him to have a word with himself and to shut up and watch the match). He moved for the 2nd half. That's the type of toucher you get going to the games these days tbh. Obviously not everyone is like that.

Aye that's one thing right, but me mate, a veteran of 300 games plus and a weathered 30 something who with me went home and away in the darkest Ardiles days, told me to stop swearing against Man Utd because there was kids in earshot! I says you've got a free ticket out of the goodness of me heart, I could've given it to numerous people, we're playing Man Utd and Webb is being a cunt?! Fuck off. That's what happens when you become a copper.

Tbh, I probably would've tried to temper it a bit for his kids but I doubt his kids even heard what I was saying. It was literally me talking to the person next to me (Gemmill on me Dad's ticket). He was a proper middle class prick who'd obviously decided he was going to take umbrage with anyone swearing. If you don't want kids to hear swearing, don't take them to the match or sit in the family enclosure. The cunt!

[Guest alex]

You'll never get back to the 80s because, as CT says, making the stadiums all-seater killed a lot of the atmosphere. Society has changed too though, you could bring back terracing but it still wouldn't be the same (not that it would ever be for the majority of fans anyway - but even if it was it wouldn't be the same).

Btw, a bloke at the Spurs match last season turned around and asked me to stop swearing. He had his two bairns with him but I wasn't even talking loudly let alone swearing. He was completely out of order - ask Gemmill. He had a fucking southern accent to top things off. He was soft as shit as well (and I didn't threaten him or owt, I didn't even swear at him, I basically told him to have a word with himself and to shut up and watch the match). He moved for the 2nd half. That's the type of toucher you get going to the games these days tbh. Obviously not everyone is like that.

 

thing is though, the atmosphere in the 90s after we went all seater was still mint, definitely a lot better than it is today, or at least consistently better - we can still make a lot of noise today but it's sporadic.

 

a lot of that might be down to the football that was played at the time. it's easier to back a side playing champagne football. but there's definitely been a shift since we went from 36k to 52k capacity.

Aye, I'd agree that the old 36k stadium had a great atmosphere. That was partly the team but also the size and way it was enclosed.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

The problem you had when it all got good in the 90s and the all seater kicked in is that groups who went together got split up. I used to go in a big group as a kid with my dad and his mates when we used to be in the Milburn Paddock (when I started anyway). They then moved the Milburn Stand seating, then got moved to where we are now, but on those two moves we all got split up. I think the signing section up in the gods was excellent, a catalyst for starting the rest of the ground singing. Why the club got rid of it nobody knows (well, it's to do with the protest songs probably).

 

When I was first taken my old man said one thing to me; there's going to be a lot of swearing son..the rule is this; you don't repeat it in front of adults outside of the ground and you don't tell your mam.