Rangers enter Administration

[Brock Manson 0]

The Sun are running a story that says Rangers are looking to buy Bury as a way into English football.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

Already "scotched"

 

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11788/7832634/Bury-won-t-sell-to-Gers

[Toonpack 9411]

Rangers (or "The Rangers") will be playing SPL football next season

 

Don't think so.....

 

Cut and paste from a board "up North"

 

Rangers need 8 yes votes from the 12

So we need 5 to say no.

 

Probable No Votes - 8

Aberdeen - "A large number of our supporters have made their views and feelings very clear and as a club I can assure everyone that these are being taken into account. The integrity of sport in general, and football in particular, must be central to any decision."

Celtic - Surely it would be commercial suicide for Celtic to do anything other than vote No, and given that it looks like the No's have a majority, it seems highly unlikely they'd risk a Yes. (Celtic fan groups are threatening to boycott any away games at "yes" clubs).

Dundee Utd - "Dundee United...cannot vote the newco into the SPL." Club Statement - NO

Hearts - "Supporters deserve a new beginning and have to accept the fact that their club has to start from the lower league, keeping order in the SPL and without creating unfair competition with other clubs." lub Statement - NO

Hibernian - Rod Petrie (Chairman) "Fundamental to us at our club is to make sure the integrity of the game is not called into question and that the sporting integrity of the competition we take part in is maintained at the highest standards. It’s not a question of any sum of money in return for that integrity – integrity is beyond purchase." Been NO from the start

ICT - "Our final decision on the issue will be taken based on the views of supporters and the Supporters Trust combined with what we think is best for our club from a business perspective and for Scottish football in general."

Motherwell - "We will therefore hold a ballot of adult ‘Well Society Members and the small number of existing minority shareholders who have yet to join the society, on a ‘one member/shareholder-one vote’ basis." So "No". (97% No in a poll of the Society members)

St Mirren - Looks like this is a fan vote since they achieved their funding target and submitted their takeover bid. so "No".

 

Unknowns

Ross County - I'm yet to see any quotes either way.

 

Yes votes - 3

Killie - Michael Johnston "Members see the commercial benefits of having Rangers, even as a newco. The clubs are mindful of a sporting integrity aspect, but the commercial benefits may outweigh that." Killie may just have shot themselves with that statement.

Oldco Rangers - well...

St Johnstone - Steven Brown has stated he won't let Rangers in "without sanctions". so basically a Yes.

 

Also, Fans hammered again (possibly) They've been taking season ticket money on last years DD's and of course some have renewed anyway (idiots) and:

 

Herald; Creditors retain claim on Rangers season-ticket cash

 

http://www.heraldsco...t-cash.17946985

 

"The process of securing the season ticket funds requires legal agreements from Duff & Phelps, who currently run the oldco's business, BDO, who will move in as liquidators, and a guarantee from Green's newco. The process could take as long as six weeks to ensure proper protections are in place, meaning that the current funds are part of the oldco's assets and, so, within reach of the creditors, despite Green's assurances to the contrary to the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund in a private and confidential meeting last Wednesday night, and then again in a statement yesterday.

 

Having set up the newco, direct debit mandates should have been sent out to all supporters informing them of a change in the banking details and requiring them to sign the mandates before money could be taken out by the newco. However, Sevco have been unable to arrange corporate banking facilities."

 

Sevco is Newco's company name btw. Can't get the Rangers name until it's released by liquidator, thus can't get incorporation certificate so cant get company bank account.

 

Players wages due next Tuesday (which are at a level they could only afford by witholding Tax/NI and VAT in the first place).

 

Tick Tock.................................

[LeazesMag 0]

so have those 50,000 Ibrox regulars found a new club to support yet ?

[ewerk 30611]

Aberdeen have also gone public in stating that they'll be voting no.

 

Leazes, there is a very real chance that there will be no football at all at Ibrox this coming season.

[LeazesMag 0]

Aberdeen have also gone public in stating that they'll be voting no.

 

Leazes, there is a very real chance that there will be no football at all at Ibrox this coming season.

 

but will they cease to exist ?

 

Will those 50,000 supporters that go to Ibrox start going to IKEA instead ?

 

Or will it all be forgotten about in a few years time ie like a relegation for example ?

[ewerk 30611]

Rangers will be back in the SPL in three or four years time but they'll be weaker than they have been at any time in recent history.

 

You're making it sound like they're getting a slap on the wrists.

[McFaul 35]

This is what will happen in my view. Dunfermline will retain their SPL status, and Rangers will be place in the Scotch First Division. Most of their players will leave, but they'll retain a core of promising younguns, which should get up to the SPL after one season no bother.

 

The worrying trend for the SPL is even shite players think they're above it these days. Yesterday KEITH ANDREWS, turned a move to Celtic down, and a few weeks ago Leon Best did the same. These are undoubted SHITE PLAYERS, and they don't want to move to the biggest clubs in Glasgow. I've long held the view Rangers and Celtic are Championship quality, I think the day will come when even they are league one quality.

[LeazesMag 0]

Rangers will be back in the SPL in three or four years time but they'll be weaker than they have been at any time in recent history.

 

You're making it sound like they're getting a slap on the wrists.

 

I believe the myth that has gone around for quite a number of years now is that going into administration leads to ceasing to exist. I have posted that clip from that book a few times now, and my own view that in fact it is nothing of the kind, at worst it is a relegation from which the big clubs will bounce back. This has been scorned by people who quite simply haven't got a clue what they are talking about, but as usual they are wrong, but we [or I] know their reasons for peddling this shite.

 

That remains the case, and always has been and always will be the case. This scaremongering is laughable. I'm please you have confirmed it.

 

Of course Rangers will bounce back, like any other big club. Why make out different ? Why doesn't Toonpack [in particular] simply confirm this is the case instead of babbling on for ages like a rock ape and insinuating differently ?

 

BTW, if you think they will be weaker, how will they be weaker, do you think those 50,000 supporters are going to start supporting East Fife or someone else instead ?

Edited June 22, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9411]

but will they cease to exist ?

 

Will those 50,000 supporters that go to Ibrox start going to IKEA instead ?

 

Or will it all be forgotten about in a few years time ie like a relegation for example ?

 

Spot on Ewerk

 

And re Ikea. They may have to, currently they really do not exist (well once the liquidation is confirmed) as a football entity.

 

Hearts, Dundee Utd and Aberdeen all officially voting NO, two more formal NO's needed and they are screwed. (Motherwell and St Mirren are all but owned by fan societies and have stated they will vote with the fans wishes, Motherwell fans society recent poll was 97% NO) Hibs chairman has all but said NO consistently stating sporting integrity comes before all.

 

Important point. The vote is about the transfer of the SPL share from Oldco to Newco (not just a simple let Newco in scenario) if the vote is NO, the share stays in the ashes of Oldco. (from where it will be taken and likely given to Dundee - 2nd in SFL1 last saeason).

 

Newco has no SPL membership (if the share don't move) and is also importantly NOT a member of the SFA, it will have to apply for membership and one of the statutes for application for SFA membership is 3 years audited accounts.

 

SFL Chief has already said there is no mechanism for Newco/The Rangers to get into Div 1 (and Rangers Oldco are not members of the SFL anyway they're members of the SPL) it would likely take a vote of all SFL chairmen to let them into Div 1, Div 1 chairmen won't vote them in as they're kissing promotion chances away, SFL 2/3 chairmen no benefit to them at all.

 

Also IF SFA/SFL shortcut their membership and waive some of the conditions, expect all sorts of legal cases from clubs already "in the queue" - there is no Pyramid system in scotland from non-league to the SFL.

 

Additionally The Rangers really don't exist yet, they are called Sevco 5088 (or some such number) the Rangers name cannot be released until the liquidator says so (Liquidator not fully in charge for "some weeks") all other permutations of Rangers are already registered at Companies House (some enterprising Celtic fan I guess). Without an incorporation certificate, Newco can't open a corporate bank account, therefore cannot trade in any way. Players salaries are due next Tuesday, they have no bank account or money and the salalries are still at the level Old Rangers could only pay by witholding tax/NI/VAT. Screwed !!!!

 

Oldco have been taking season ticket money by DD for next year (from some idiots who have renewed and some who just hadn't cancelled their old one) that money is "supposedly" ring fenced for Newco tickets BUT Lloyds (and some legal eagle) have today questioned that is possible and that money collected in the oldco account could be claimed by the creditors of Oldco.

 

No football creditors rule up there so the players have nee chance of getting paid even if they TUPE across to Newco (and amazingly the new owner has yet to meet the players according to the press)- unless the new owner (who evidently is skint) divies up, if they do TUPE over Newco has to honour their existing contracts (the same as the contracts Oldco couldn't afford) if they decline to TUPE they are free agents.

 

I believe the trigger for them definitely being free agents (every single one of them from youth to international) would be not getting paid, although SPFA is already arguing they are free agents.

 

No money, no bank account, no name, no players, only the assetts (ground, training centre and car park) and the fans are left. Speaking of which a "specialist" Police section has alledgedly visited the HMRC offices involved and placed them on high alert for "suspicious packages".

[LeazesMag 0]

This is what will happen in my view. Dunfermline will retain their SPL status, and Rangers will be place in the Scotch First Division. Most of their players will leave, but they'll retain a core of promising younguns, which should get up to the SPL after one season no bother.

 

The worrying trend for the SPL is even shite players think they're above it these days. Yesterday KEITH ANDREWS, turned a move to Celtic down, and a few weeks ago Leon Best did the same. These are undoubted SHITE PLAYERS, and they don't want to move to the biggest clubs in Glasgow. I've long held the view Rangers and Celtic are Championship quality, I think the day will come when even they are league one quality.

 

that day is already here Stevie. They win the league and their best players are mostly premiership rejects or average players at best.

Who was the last player to come down from Scotland and actually enhance their reputation as a "top" footballer ? I personally can't think of one since Gordon Strachan and Charlie Nicholas.

[McFaul 35]

Aye but there's a difference between going in to administration and liqiudation. Loads of clubs have went in to administration, with appointed administrators, and paid off their debts at reduced agreed rates between the administrators and creditors, survived and come out of administration.

 

Most of the time they can do this because they're not as heavily as endowed to the tax man as Rangers are, and private creditors think fuck it, better get something than nothing and don't press bankruptcy charges, whereas with the tax man it's a completely different scenario. Being in administration is one thing, being liquidated is quite another, and that's what has happened to Rangers. They don't technically exist any more. It's Rangers FC 1873-2012. I think everyone knows they'll come back eventually, and no one is saying people will start supporting another club, but Rangers 139 year history is over. It's a new club that will come back. If this happened to Newcastle United, we'd be a new club technically probably Newcastle United AFC, but we wouldn't be the old club, and Rangers are by far the biggest club this has ever happened to. In 1986 Boro stayed in Division 3, nowadays they'd end up in the Northern League Division Two under a new guise.

[McFaul 35]

that day is already here Stevie. They win the league and their best players are mostly premiership rejects or average players at best.

Who was the last player to come down from Scotland and actually enhance their reputation as a "top" footballer ? I personally can't think of one since Gordon Strachan and Charlie Nicholas.

Gary McAllister and Colin Hendry were top class in England but apart from them you're right. Edited June 22, 2012 by McFaul

[topcat 0]

so have those 50,000 Ibrox regulars found a new club to support yet ?

 

they could always come along and support one of the other (as their fans say) "diddy" teams like Partick Thistle, Queens Park or Clyde - as long as they leave their sectarian baggage behind - in truth though their fans buses come from as far field as Northern Ireland and Aberdeen/Dundee so there are plenty of 'local' clubs who might benefit from a few extra sheckles at the gates.

 

speaking as a glaswegian it's a bit of a shame to see the state they are in but we're not haqlf enjoying ripping the gash right out their fans - and most of the gers fans I know are pretty decent and also disgusted with the state of affairs - most of them think a stint in division 3 might bring a bit of humility to those who run the club too (should they actually survive at all)

[JawD 99]

As Stevie says there is a big difference between Administration and Liquidation. Plus its not just about big clubs. the general opinion was that football is a different business and different rules apply. Yet smaller clubs who go through this (Portsmouth, Plymouth, now Port Vale and so on) just dont have the financial clout to recover from relegation.

 

Rangers in whatever form they retake do have the clout financially but never the less it would harm them massively. They cant afford to operate (legally) now let alone in a lower division without the champions league money. through time you would expect them to get back to where they were but it would be a long hard slog.

 

I dont think its as simple as saying "it will soon be forgotten". If it was one season then fair enough but it wont be.

[LeazesMag 0]

Aye but there's a difference between going in to administration and liqiudation. Loads of clubs have went in to administration, with appointed administrators, and paid off their debts at reduced agreed rates between the administrators and creditors, survived and come out of administration.

 

Most of the time they can do this because they're not as heavily as endowed to the tax man as Rangers are, and private creditors think fuck it, better get something than nothing and don't press bankruptcy charges, whereas with the tax man it's a completely different scenario. Being in administration is one thing, being liquidated is quite another, and that's what has happened to Rangers. They don't technically exist any more. It's Rangers FC 1873-2012. I think everyone knows they'll come back eventually, and no one is saying people will start supporting another club, but Rangers 139 year history is over. It's a new club that will come back. If this happened to Newcastle United, we'd be a new club technically probably Newcastle United AFC, but we wouldn't be the old club, and Rangers are by far the biggest club this has ever happened to. In 1986 Boro stayed in Division 3, nowadays they'd end up in the Northern League Division Two under a new guise.

 

I agree, and I'm not saying its to be taken lightly at all, but once the new club got under way and winning, people would get used to it and support the new club just like the old one. Supporters are fickle, and easily taken in, but look at our own support for proof of that, they have said they wouldn't come back when Keegan walked, they said they wouldn't come back when the roof was plastered all over with those adverts, they said they wouldn't come back when the singing section was moved, they said they wouldn't come back when the name was changed to Sports Direct Arena. Of course, in my view, his current stock [which has never been higher] is only a upward temporary blip for reasons well documented that we won't mention again just now, and if the strip was changed to red and blue Sports Direct colours [which the 2nd strip will be in future as a tester] then they will say again they won't come back. But they would.

 

Rangers fans will be back, soon, whatever happens, just like Fiorentina, rather than Third Lanark. Just like NUFC will if the worst ever happens. Can you imagine people doing anything else ? Of course not.

 

People spend and have spent so much time babbling on about this ie Toonpack and the like, but at the end of the day, it amounts to tradition and history but not the future and if the team wins in the future, the past is very quickly forgotten. These clubs are too big to just disappear, whatever Celtic supporters may wish - although privately the ones with any intelligence will know that it would be the worst thing possible for the SPL if Rangers just disappeared.

Edited June 22, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9411]

This is what will happen in my view. Dunfermline will retain their SPL status, and Rangers will be place in the Scotch First Division. Most of their players will leave, but they'll retain a core of promising younguns, which should get up to the SPL after one season no bother.

 

The worrying trend for the SPL is even shite players think they're above it these days. Yesterday KEITH ANDREWS, turned a move to Celtic down, and a few weeks ago Leon Best did the same. These are undoubted SHITE PLAYERS, and they don't want to move to the biggest clubs in Glasgow. I've long held the view Rangers and Celtic are Championship quality, I think the day will come when even they are league one quality.

 

The SPL share will evidently pass to Dundee, second in SFL1

 

SFL Chariman has stated "there is no mechanism for a Newco to enter the 1st Division"

 

All their players are free agents if they don't get paid next week (although the SPFA is arguing they are already free agents)

 

Stevie, if there is a NO vote Sevco 5088 has NO standing as a football entity, it has no association membership (as that's attached to the SPL share and is all currently Oldco ), a primary requirement of application to join the SFA is to produce 3 years audited accounts.

 

As it stands Oldco is a football club in liquidation, Sevco 5088 Ltd happens to own a stadium, a car park and a training facility, and it has fans. It has no football association membership of any sort. it has no bank account even - because it can't have "the name".

Edited June 22, 2012 by Toonpack

[LeazesMag 0]

they could always come along and support one of the other (as their fans say) "diddy" teams like Partick Thistle, Queens Park or Clyde - as long as they leave their sectarian baggage behind - in truth though their fans buses come from as far field as Northern Ireland and Aberdeen/Dundee so there are plenty of 'local' clubs who might benefit from a few extra sheckles at the gates.

 

speaking as a glaswegian it's a bit of a shame to see the state they are in but we're not haqlf enjoying ripping the gash right out their fans - and most of the gers fans I know are pretty decent and also disgusted with the state of affairs - most of them think a stint in division 3 might bring a bit of humility to those who run the club too (should they actually survive at all)

 

I bet you are

[Toonpack 9411]

As Stevie says there is a big difference between Administration and Liquidation. Plus its not just about big clubs. the general opinion was that football is a different business and different rules apply. Yet smaller clubs who go through this (Portsmouth, Plymouth, now Port Vale and so on) just dont have the financial clout to recover from relegation.

 

Rangers in whatever form they retake do have the clout financially but never the less it would harm them massively. They cant afford to operate (legally) now let alone in a lower division without the champions league money. through time you would expect them to get back to where they were but it would be a long hard slog.

 

I dont think its as simple as saying "it will soon be forgotten". If it was one season then fair enough but it wont be.

 

There's an important difference, those smaller clubs you mention all happen to be English, where the football creditors rule (law) applies, that rule does not exist in Scotland, and the small clubs do, and have, died.

 

Whatever happens if there's a NO vote, Rangers 1872 (or whenever) is absolutely dead (when the liquidator formally winds up) a "new" Rangers 2012 may appear.

 

Gonna have to be significant SFA rule changes to let them in, just needs one other aspiring club, that meets the existing rules, to mount a legal challenge.............

 

That said I reckon the SFA/SFL will kill the SPL and have a massive reorganisation of Scottish Football with a proper pyramid system etc. Where Sevco will fit in, who can say.

[Toonpack 9411]

I agree, and I'm not saying its to be taken lightly at all, but once the new club got under way and winning, people would get used to it and support the new club just like the old one. Supporters are fickle, and easily taken in, but look at our own support for proof of that, they have said they wouldn't come back when Keegan walked, they said they wouldn't come back when the roof was plastered all over with those adverts, they said they wouldn't come back when the singing section was moved, they said they wouldn't come back when the name was changed to Sports Direct Arena. Of course, in my view, his current stock [which has never been higher] is only a upward temporary blip for reasons well documented that we won't mention again just now, and if the strip was changed to red and blue Sports Direct colours [which the 2nd strip will be in future as a tester] then they will say again they won't come back. But they would.

 

Rangers fans will be back, soon, whatever happens, just like Fiorentina, rather than Third Lanark. Just like NUFC will if the worst ever happens. Can you imagine people doing anything else ? Of course not.

 

People spend and have spent so much time babbling on about this ie Toonpack and the like, but at the end of the day, it amounts to tradition and history but not the future and if the team wins in the future, the past is very quickly forgotten. These clubs are too big to just disappear, whatever Celtic supporters may wish - although privately the ones with any intelligence will know that it would be the worst thing possible for the SPL if Rangers just disappeared.

 

Utter rubbish

 

Anyway we'll find out as they have REALLY dissappeared if there's a NO vote

Edited June 22, 2012 by Toonpack

[ewerk 30611]

Leazes, if we were in the same situation and were demoted to League 2, how long do you think it would take for us to get back to where we are now?

[LeazesMag 0]

Utter rubbish

 

Anyway we'll find out as they have REALLY dissappeared if there's a NO vote

 

so it would be a good thing then ?

 

Rangers would be better off if they bought Bury mind, that would put paid to your claims it's such a disaster for them.

 

You do like to jump the gun too soon and get easily carried away don't you. Those 50,000 supporters aren't going to just disappear and support someone else because Rangers will cease to exist. Sometimes I wonder where people like you get your ideas from.

 

What's it like to always be wrong ?

[McFaul 35]

Leazes, if we were in the same situation and were demoted to League 2, how long do you think it would take for us to get back to where we are now?

Leazes, if we were in the same situation and were demoted to League 2, how long do you think it would take for us to get back to where we are now?

Newcastle United? Nee more than 5 years. We're not Leeds, Forest or Sheff Wed. I'd allow two seasons where we don't go up.

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, if we were in the same situation and were demoted to League 2, how long do you think it would take for us to get back to where we are now?

 

depends on the management of the club. Someone who understood the club etc, not too long, someone who didn't understand the club and wasn't prepared to take risks knowing the potential and fanbase of the club, longer.

 

You DID ask.

[LeazesMag 0]

Newcastle United? Nee more than 5 years. We're not Leeds, Forest or Sheff Wed. I'd allow two seasons where we don't go up.

 

exactly.