Rangers enter Administration

[McFaul 35]

Me for one, and the wider football public in general. And theyd be right. How the majority of the supporters of the cheaating club feel is irrelevent, its what the facts are that count. They can tell themselves lies to justify it, it wont change a thing.

 

And Brazil won the WC in 94, not Argentina.

...and me, Rangers FC is over. Their history is over. They can develop a new history as a new club, but old Rangers don't exist and their trophy haul can NEVER be added to. It's finished. That is legal, that is fact.

[Brock Manson 0]

Me for one, and the wider football public in general. And theyd be right. How the majority of the supporters of the cheaating club feel is irrelevent, its what the facts are that count. They can tell themselves lies to justify it, it wont change a thing.

 

And Brazil won the WC in 94, not Argentina.

 

Brazil won the WC in 94 yes. Not sure what your point is? The hand of God incident occurred in the 86 world cup, which Argentina won.

[McFaul 35]

Brazil won the WC in 94 yes. Not sure what your point is? The hand of God incident occurred in the 86 world cup, which Argentina won.

Scoring a goal because of the referees inability to spot an infringement has taken place is galaxies away from, owing the tax man £70m, folding as a club and basically cheating Scottish football for 25 years. If I was a Celtic fan I'd be feeling cheated they should have all of those titles 1995 onwards.

[LeazesMag 0]

nothing will change apart from a new name/players/maybe a venue

- they will still be supported by some decent peope but sadly these are vastly outnumbered by the filth element (the other side of the OF divide are no different either)

 

If anyone wants a valuable insight into the sectarian bile we have to put up with up here then look no further than this thread on one of their websites. It has it alll - from the pope and the queen, to flute bands and the outing of someone in a shop who had the temerity to have a bit of banter.

 

http://forum.rangers...howtopic=223562

 

It's entirely NSFW due to language but every time we stumble upon something like this it reinforces our choice from an early age to support Glasgow's third team.

 

exactly. All this hoping/wanking yourself to death etc or anything else due to agendas, all the hot air and bluster and rubbish that is and has been spouted about clubs going into administration [and we know the real reason for it] is all in vain. Rangers are NOT Third Lanark.

[LeazesMag 0]

Scoring a goal because of the referees inability to spot an infringement has taken place is galaxies away from, owing the tax man £70m, folding as a club and basically cheating Scottish football for 25 years. If I was a Celtic fan I'd be feeling cheated they should have all of those titles 1995 onwards.

 

I understand your point Stevie, but in a way, if you win the title for 17 years wouldn't it all become a bit meaningless in the end ? I realise that is a slight deviation from the main point, but overall, as I said, the one thing I can't quite get is why Rangers felt the need to do it in the first place. That doesn't change the fact that what's done is done though, and it won't be long before things are exactly as they were before.

[McFaul 35]

exactly. All this hoping/wanking yourself to death etc or anything else due to agendas, all the hot air and bluster and rubbish that is and has been spouted about clubs going into administration [and we know the real reason for it] is all in vain. Rangers are NOT Third Lanark.

They're not Third Lanark and the difference is Third Lanark never came back. Rangers FC are dead but they're forming a new club, which by every legal statue, every sporting statue, has nothing to do with the old clubs history. It's dead. They died, they went out of business. There is no Rangers anymore. There's a new club being formed called Rangers, but the old Rangers history can't be improved on, it's an old club, it's dead and that's how 90% of people see it because it's how it is. Whether Rangers fans or anyone else want to believe it's the same club, is up to them. The fact is it's not. Rangers Football Club is dead. If I sound like a Celtic fan, I'm not I'm just saying how it is, Celtic has nearly as many arsehole fans as Rangers, they're worse in some respects because they portray themselves as angels when they're anything but.

[topcat 0]

exactly. All this hoping/wanking yourself to death etc or anything else due to agendas, all the hot air and bluster and rubbish that is and has been spouted about clubs going into administration [and we know the real reason for it] is all in vain. Rangers are NOT Third Lanark.

 

Third Lanark went tits up for just £43,000 in 1967 (what fraction of Cisse's weekly wage is that?!!)

 

- I played for their reincarnated amateur team at Cathkin Park 4 years ago ... I moved on to a better team but it was good to see that the 3rds won division 1 of the Greater Glasgow Premier AFL this season after 2 successive promotions http://www.greaterglasgow.co.uk/division_1.htm

 

Rangers situation is quite unlike that which unfolded at Cathkin between 1964-67.

[McFaul 35]

I understand your point Stevie, but in a way, if you win the title for 17 years wouldn't it all become a bit meaningless in the end ? I realise that is a slight deviation from the main point, but overall, as I said, the one thing I can't quite get is why Rangers felt the need to do it in the first place. That doesn't change the fact that what's done is done though, and it won't be long before things are exactly as they were before.

I agree, why did they do it? I mean 88 onwards for 10 years, they were a million miles ahead of Celtic, they didn't need to cheat.

[PaddockLad 17262]

Brazil won the WC in 94 yes. Not sure what your point is? The hand of God incident occurred in the 86 world cup, which Argentina won.

 

Sorry I thought you were on about when Maradonna got busted for drugs. And I agree with Stevie,cheating in the heat of the moment during a match is on a different planet to what Rangers have done.

[LeazesMag 0]

They're not Third Lanark and the difference is Third Lanark never came back. Rangers FC are dead but they're forming a new club, which by every legal statue, every sporting statue, has nothing to do with the old clubs history. It's dead. They died, they went out of business. There is no Rangers anymore. There's a new club being formed called Rangers, but the old Rangers history can't be improved on, it's an old club, it's dead and that's how 90% of people see it because it's how it is. Whether Rangers fans or anyone else want to believe it's the same club, is up to them. The fact is it's not. Rangers Football Club is dead. If I sound like a Celtic fan, I'm not I'm just saying how it is, Celtic has nearly as many arsehole fans as Rangers, they're worse in some respects because they portray themselves as angels when they're anything but.

 

I know all of this. But you know the direction and the aim of my comments mate, which are directed mainly at the scaremongering peddled over the years by people who said what would happen to NUFC if we had gone into administration [which never happened and never would have happened anyway]. My view is they are hoping Rangers fold and those 50,000 supporters have nowhere else to go because this is the nonsense they peddled for years concerning NUFC, as per their absurd and ill-informed agenda.

 

The reality is that Rangers will be back exactly in the situation they have left in a short while, and nobody will look back at what is happening now. They will have forgotten all about it, just like Fiorentina, just like NUFC would ever do if the worst happens and almost happened in 1990/91. People have forgotten all about the stadium name change already because the team won a few games, in fact they have forgotten all about what Mike Ashley has done to the club etc on account of a few wins and one good league season, such is the tunnell vision of football supporters everywhere. This is what will happen, it has always been the case.

 

People who want Rangers to disappear, for whatever reason, are not going to get what they want mate. They can enjoy them squirming, for now, but that is all they are going to get. They will be back, in another entity perhaps, but when they start winning that title again the past won't matter too much anymore and their diehard fans will gloss over it jand resume normal operations just as much as anybody else.

Edited June 28, 2012 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

Third Lanark went tits up for just £43,000 in 1967 (what fraction of Cisse's weekly wage is that?!!)

 

- I played for their reincarnated amateur team at Cathkin Park 4 years ago ... I moved on to a better team but it was good to see that the 3rds won division 1 of the Greater Glasgow Premier AFL this season after 2 successive promotions http://www.greatergl.../division_1.htm

 

Rangers situation is quite unlike that which unfolded at Cathkin between 1964-67.

 

Fair comment mate, FWIW I think clubs, especially the smaller clubs both north and south of the border, need financial assistance rather than the big boot. It's no good fining them, deducting points etc if they can't fulfill fixtures or are in financial trouble, it is happening too often now. Football needs to look at the problems and help them. I'm thinking of a club like Luton, it's a disgrace a club like that has been booted out of the league. They have won a domestic trophy more recently than NUFC.

 

I hope they can come back, and Southampton back in the premiership is a good thing too. It's nice to see them get back again.

[Toonpack 9413]

Toonpack, particularly, has said himself on this very forum that you should enjoy the moment of success while you can. Which I totally agree with, and always have and always will. Why the change of heart ?

 

 

No change of heart at all, I abhor cheating/corruption etc. If we won something by cheating (at the time I'd be euphoric if the cheating was unknown) but when it came to light, I'd be gutted.

 

Winning by "any means" is not winning. I suppose you think Ben Johnson is still a gold medal olympian.

 

I would suggest the Rangers fans who celebrated wildly are reflecting on that glorious feeling right now and not in the least bit concerned about the present.

[LeazesMag 0]

No change of heart at all, I abhor cheating/corruption etc. If we won something by cheating (at the time I'd be euphoric if the cheating was unknown) but when it came to light, I'd be gutted.

 

Winning by "any means" is not winning. I suppose you think Ben Johnson is still a gold medal olympian.

 

I would suggest the Rangers fans who celebrated wildly are reflecting on that glorious feeling right now and not in the least bit concerned about the present.

 

rubbish. Throwing the book at ONE athlete is totally different to throwing the book at 50,000 innocent football supporters, and more considering it is spread over many years. And you DID say to enjoy the success while it is there, so have did yet another u-turn.

 

FWIW, I don't consider one good season to be anything particular to consider as successful either. But we will see, and again you will be wrong.

 

Rangers will be back, whether it suits your daft agenda or not, and whether you like it or not.

 

You can comment on the rest of my post in your own time.

Edited June 28, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9413]

Yeah but thats the point....if theyre found to have been cheating for the last quarter of a century in gaining that "history" then there is no history. Liquidation is the least of their worries iyam. Having everything erased from the history books that a club had acheived because they cheated would fuckin kill me as a supporter. Dont know how the Rangers fans would feel, most will have different opinions I suppose. I said this the other day; in sport, if you win something by cheating and its proven, then you're not longer the winners. If this "The Big Tax Case" is not proven against them, then what you're saying id pretty much the case. If the double contracts are found to be illegal then the only Rangers FC that a huge percentage of their fan base will have known (anyone under 35-40 say?) will be deemed to have not exisited. Thats a hard pill to swallow if you've spent you're life following any team.

 

Just a some info to clarify that bit for you PL.

 

The big tax case is “proven” HMRC have levied the bill (and penalties) the case is Old Rangers appeal against the amount of the bill, the debt is on their books (and was in the CVA paperwork). That said, even if the tribunal finds the bill should be zero (expunged) the football issue remains.

 

An EBT is legal as it’s a loan – which has an expectation of being repaid (at some indeterminate point in the future). Some (it appears most) of the beneficiaries of EBT’s had side letters which stated the EBT would never have to be paid back. The football rules state that all payments to players must be disclosed and lodged with the authority.

 

Rangers accounts submitted to the authorities would have showed payments to an offshore trust, likely as a bulk amount, (the trust is what paid the EBT’s) and player contracts at say £10k a week. The players however had a side letter from the club that basically said you don’t need to pay that back because that tops up your wage to £15K a week.

 

Taxman says that additional £5K is taxable (hence Big Tax Case) in football terms irrespective of whether it’s found to be taxable or not, it’s a side contract and an undisclosed/illegal payment to a player.

[McFaul 35]

I know all of this. But you know the direction and the aim of my comments mate, which are directed mainly at the scaremongering peddled over the years by people who said what would happen to NUFC if we had gone into administration [which never happened and never would have happened anyway]. My view is they are hoping Rangers fold and those 50,000 supporters have nowhere else to go because this is the nonsense they peddled for years concerning NUFC, as per their absurd and ill-informed agenda.

 

The reality is that Rangers will be back exactly in the situation they have left in a short while, and nobody will look back at what is happening now. They will have forgotten all about it, just like Fiorentina, just like NUFC would ever do if the worst happens and almost happened in 1990/91. People have forgotten all about the stadium name change already because the team won a few games, in fact they have forgotten all about what Mike Ashley has done to the club etc on account of a few wins and one good league season, such is the tunnell vision of football supporters everywhere. This is what will happen, it has always been the case.

 

People who want Rangers to disappear, for whatever reason, are not going to get what they want mate. They can enjoy them squirming, for now, but that is all they are going to get. They will be back, in another entity perhaps, but when they start winning that title again the past won't matter too much anymore and their diehard fans will gloss over it jand resume normal operations just as much as anybody else.

I don't care what SJH says or anyone else, NUFC were never close to liquidation and if we'd went down to Division 3, despite what the Ashington pitman said, we'd have survived. He was scaremongering because he's a cunt. If we went down to Division 3, what difference would it make, you'd still have your hardcore 20,000 and Division Two was hardly paved with gold in financial terms.

 

Also the ludicrous Ashley claims as well, about us potentially folding after FFS era. Debt, debt, debt, debt etc.... when 75% of the debt was on the mortgage on the stadium, why people ignore this baffles me.

 

Rangers however, their fans can think what they like and anyone else for that matter they don't exist. Italy is the most corrupt Western country there is, and Fiorentina are different. They started again as a new club in the fifth tier, they won promotion and the Italian FA decided to lift them two divisions instead. Fiorentina in their new form also have no history, they died, the same as Rangers have done.

[Toonpack 9413]

rubbish. Throwing the book at ONE athlete is totally different to throwing the book at 50,000 innocent football supporters, and more considering it is spread over many years. And you DID say to enjoy the success while it is there, so have did yet another u-turn.

 

FWIW, I don't consider one good season to be anything particular to consider as successful either. But we will see, and again you will be wrong.

 

Rangers will be back, whether it suits your daft agenda or not, and whether you like it or not.

 

You can comment on the rest of my post in your own time.

 

No U turn at all, if you don't know it's cheating "at the time" of course you celebrate, if you (well if I) found out later it had been through cheating/illegal means, I'd be gutted and feel not a little betrayed.

 

As for the rest, I don't comment on all your crap anymore, there's no point, you never read it or respond in anything approaching sense.

[topcat 0]

News on the wires at the moment suggesting a closed-doors carve up on the go to save Rangers humiliation at the vote on 4th July - disgusting news if plans to parachute them into division 1 are true.

 

BBC website:

 

Rangers newco: Plans for club to enter Scottish Division One

 

BBC Scotland has learned of plans being put in place that would allow Rangers to move directly into Scottish Division One in the coming season.

Rangers FC plc are soon to be liquidated and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club.

But Green's Rangers newco has not gained support to replace the old club in the Scottish Premier League.

And senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start season 2012/13 in the second tier.

There are also plans in place for a new organisation to be called 'The Scottish Professional Football League' to become effective in 12 months' time.

The main points of the proposals are:

• Rangers are to be relegated with immediate effect and be replaced in the SPL by Dundee.
  
• Television rights for Rangers matches in Scottish Football League Division One are to be bought by the SPL for £1m.
  
• The SPL and SFL will merge into one body at the start of season 2013/14.
  
• Play-offs between the top two divisions will be introduced in time for the coming season
  
• There will be an increase in the parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the SPL.
  
• Changes will be made to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up.
  
• A new pyramid system will become effective from season 2014/15 that will allow a potential place in the new league format for a team from either the Highland league or newly-created 'Lowland League'.
  
• Rangers newco acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge.
  

It is understood Rangers chief executive Green has been "briefed" by Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie on the plans to gain their approval.

All these changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days.

[Gemmill 44882]

That's a fucking joke. A brand new football club just gets to join the second from top division!?

[McFaul 35]

The thing is and I hope any Scottish viewers don't take this the wrong way, but it's a rotten country isn't it. It's beset by bigotry on every level. You go to Glasgow, it's beset by bigotry and sectarian ingrained attitudes. You go to towns outside of Glasgow within 25 miles they're even worse. Rangers have always been the team favoured by the hierarchy of Scotland, because the majority of the SFA are presbyterian, and if the rest of the world hadn't done something about racism in the last 30 years, you'd see Rangers adopting the same old apartheid policies they always have.

 

So there's the ingrained bigotry, which is a mirror image of Northern Ireland. Then you go north of Stirling and it's not so much a presbyterian/catholic thing, it's more a real, true, pure bigotry against the ENGLISH. I'm not saying it jokey, they fuckin hate the English so deeply you'd have thought we were in the days of William Wallace. Backward cunts, but to be fair even the people in the Central Belt acknowledge they're backward. Anyway though Rangers, are, well were, the most important institution in Scottish society, if this was Celtic or Hearts or Dundee United they'd have been told to get tae fuck in this situation, the fact Rangers will receive special treatment sum up that beautiful country populated by wanks. The ones with any sense get out.

[LeazesMag 0]

I don't care what SJH says or anyone else, NUFC were never close to liquidation and if we'd went down to Division 3, despite what the Ashington pitman said, we'd have survived. He was scaremongering because he's a cunt. If we went down to Division 3, what difference would it make, you'd still have your hardcore 20,000 and Division Two was hardly paved with gold in financial terms.

 

Also the ludicrous Ashley claims as well, about us potentially folding after FFS era. Debt, debt, debt, debt etc.... when 75% of the debt was on the mortgage on the stadium, why people ignore this baffles me.

 

I completely and totally agree.

 

Rangers however, their fans can think what they like and anyone else for that matter they don't exist. Italy is the most corrupt Western country there is, and Fiorentina are different. They started again as a new club in the fifth tier, they won promotion and the Italian FA decided to lift them two divisions instead. Fiorentina in their new form also have no history, they died, the same as Rangers have done.

 

that is true, but they got back, and do their fans not consider them to be the same club ? I'm not saying cheating is OK, because it isn't, but when the dust settles, what does it mean when clubs are back to where they originally were ? My main point is the scaremongering bollocks rather than the cheating.

 

What do people think of the alleged bribery when NUFC beat Liverpool 3-0 and Cole scored that hat trick, at the time, when the allegations came out, and now ?

[LeazesMag 0]

No U turn at all, if you don't know it's cheating "at the time" of course you celebrate, if you (well if I) found out later it had been through cheating/illegal means, I'd be gutted and feel not a little betrayed.

 

As for the rest, I don't comment on all your crap anymore, there's no point, you never read it or respond in anything approaching sense.

 

what a shame you think its " crap" when it is all correct, and you will no doubt not comment when you are wrong again.

 

I don't think you would feel "betrayed" at all, as you would not be at the game and putting your hard cash into supporting the club in the flesh as a committed supporter. It's easier to take these sort of stances if that is your situation. My point is that, at the time, you enjoy it ie enjoy the success at the time, which is EXACTLY what you have said, including a one off good season that you stupidly say "proves" NUFC is set up as a big ambitious club again.

 

Whatever.

 

Rangers will not disappear, despite your views on administration and what you hope will happen. You should read that book I produce clips on, which is how things work in football not the high street.

Edited June 28, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9413]

The thing is and I hope any Scottish viewers don't take this the wrong way, but it's a rotten country isn't it. It's beset by bigotry on every level. You go to Glasgow, it's beset by bigotry and sectarian ingrained attitudes. You go to towns outside of Glasgow within 25 miles they're even worse. Rangers have always been the team favoured by the hierarchy of Scotland, because the majority of the SFA are presbyterian, and if the rest of the world hadn't done something about racism in the last 30 years, you'd see Rangers adopting the same old apartheid policies they always have.

 

So there's the ingrained bigotry, which is a mirror image of Northern Ireland. Then you go north of Stirling and it's not so much a presbyterian/catholic thing, it's more a real, true, pure bigotry against the ENGLISH. I'm not saying it jokey, they fuckin hate the English so deeply you'd have thought we were in the days of William Wallace. Backward cunts, but to be fair even the people in the Central Belt acknowledge they're backward. Anyway though Rangers, are, well were, the most important institution in Scottish society, if this was Celtic or Hearts or Dundee United they'd have been told to get tae fuck in this situation, the fact Rangers will receive special treatment sum up that beautiful country populated by wanks. The ones with any sense get out.

 

In a world of crap posts from Stevie, this tops the lot. Unbelieveable.

 

I worked up there "North of Stirling" for 7 years (until 18 months ago), have taken holidays/short breaks up there since I was a kid. The North of Scotland/Highland folk are as friendly as any you'd meet anywhere, they're akin to Northumbrians in their characteristics and welcome.

 

That said if your "real life" persona is anything like the "real" Stevie (god forbid) I would suspect you'd receive a less than friendly welcome from even your mother.

 

But hey the resident gobshite is right

[ewerk 30611]

Ten players turned up today at Murray Park for fitness tests. Is it fair to assume that these are the only ten not objecting to the transfer of their contracts?

[Toonpack 9413]

News on the wires at the moment suggesting a closed-doors carve up on the go to save Rangers humiliation at the vote on 4th July - disgusting news if plans to parachute them into division 1 are true.

 

BBC website:

 

Rangers newco: Plans for club to enter Scottish Division One

 

BBC Scotland has learned of plans being put in place that would allow Rangers to move directly into Scottish Division One in the coming season.

Rangers FC plc are soon to be liquidated and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club.

But Green's Rangers newco has not gained support to replace the old club in the Scottish Premier League.

And senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start season 2012/13 in the second tier.

There are also plans in place for a new organisation to be called 'The Scottish Professional Football League' to become effective in 12 months' time.

The main points of the proposals are:

• Rangers are to be relegated with immediate effect and be replaced in the SPL by Dundee.
  
• Television rights for Rangers matches in Scottish Football League Division One are to be bought by the SPL for £1m.
  
• The SPL and SFL will merge into one body at the start of season 2013/14.
  
• Play-offs between the top two divisions will be introduced in time for the coming season
  
• There will be an increase in the parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the SPL.
  
• Changes will be made to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up.
  
• A new pyramid system will become effective from season 2014/15 that will allow a potential place in the new league format for a team from either the Highland league or newly-created 'Lowland League'.
  
• Rangers newco acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge.
  

It is understood Rangers chief executive Green has been "briefed" by Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie on the plans to gain their approval.

All these changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days.

 

Still needs the vote on 4th July, only way the mechanism exists to "relegate" them is to transfer the SPL Share (with the SFA membership) and then relegate them fait accompli to Div 1 and SFL.

 

That will take some about face from teams "who have puclicly declared" they've listened to their fans.

 

If the vote doesn't happen and they just "do" this they are breaking all their own rules on how a team gets elected into the SFL but also break all their rules about how they change the rules.

 

Any who vote yes will gain Rangers 2012 away fans, but will lose any Celtic support away.

 

Even most Rangers fans (the decent one's who accept the transgressions) want Div 3 and a fresh slate.

 

That would be RIP Scottish Football for thousands.

[PaddockLad 17262]

Just a some info to clarify that bit for you PL.

 

The big tax case is “proven” HMRC have levied the bill (and penalties) the case is Old Rangers appeal against the amount of the bill, the debt is on their books (and was in the CVA paperwork). That said, even if the tribunal finds the bill should be zero (expunged) the football issue remains.

 

An EBT is legal as it’s a loan – which has an expectation of being repaid (at some indeterminate point in the future). Some (it appears most) of the beneficiaries of EBT’s had side letters which stated the EBT would never have to be paid back. The football rules state that all payments to players must be disclosed and lodged with the authority.

 

Rangers accounts submitted to the authorities would have showed payments to an offshore trust, likely as a bulk amount, (the trust is what paid the EBT’s) and player contracts at say £10k a week. The players however had a side letter from the club that basically said you don’t need to pay that back because that tops up your wage to £15K a week.

 

Taxman says that additional £5K is taxable (hence Big Tax Case) in football terms irrespective of whether it’s found to be taxable or not, it’s a side contract and an undisclosed/illegal payment to a player.

 

The Rangers fans I speak to here at work tell me that the BTC is/was under appeal.....what status that has now the club dosnt exist I don't know.