Rangers enter Administration

[JawD 99]

Good summary TP. Going off that they sound Fucked, but you cant help but think they will get out of it somehow.

[toon_don 0]

Good summary TP. Going off that they sound Fucked, but you cant help but think they will get out of it somehow.

 

They need 7 of the other 11 clubs to support them to allow them back into the league. With the way they've bullied, threatened, and generally pissed everyone off, I can't see that many clubs willing to help them. Kilmarnock and Hearts are the only clubs virtually certain to support Rangers.

[Toonpack 9422]

They need 7 of the other 11 clubs to support them to allow them back into the league. With the way they've bullied, threatened, and generally pissed everyone off, I can't see that many clubs willing to help them. Kilmarnock and Hearts are the only clubs virtually certain to support Rangers.

 

Highly doubtfull, Romanov's "mafia rant" (for which he was widely derided) was aimed at the OF and their influence in the SFA/SPL etc., and events thus far have proved him right, Hearts appear to have lost out in £800K from the Lee Wallace transfer fee when Rangers went bust, no football creditors rule up there.

 

Hearts fans are all but unanimous for "No to Newco" and are writting to the club in droves. They and many like them think 3rd Div is the only acceptable outcome, the favoured outcome is Rangers completely dead. Mainly because of the cheating that has been discovered.

 

Yes or No, Poll from Hearts forum:

 

YES(6 votes [0.62%] - View)

Percentage of vote: 0.62%

NO GTF(952 votes [98.25%] - View)

Percentage of vote: 98.25%

UNDECIDED(11 votes [1.14%] - View)

 

 

Most fans up North see this as a tipping point for the game up there to level the playing field, their view tends to be, appropriate sanctions for Rangers in line with their trangressions or "what's the point in continuing". I worked up there (Aberdeen for 7 years) and without exception the non-Rangers I know are all NO. It's all about sporting inegrity in the fans eyes.

 

The Dundee Utd chairman has changed from a "yes" to a "no" due to fan pressure.

 

If it's a closed vote don't be surprised if Celtic vote "yes" (despite what their fans want) as thay have a lot to lose because the other chairmen are going to be after a MUCH more equitable share of revenues.

[toon_don 0]

I agree that almost all non-Rangers fans them booted out, but Hearts are one of the few clubs who have publicly released a statement that seemed sympathetic to Rangers. I definitely can't see them getting 7 clubs onside though, so I see virtually no chance of Rangers playing in the SPL next season.

 

In fact, if they don't get their act together fast, they won't have a club ready to field in any league by August.

[Toonpack 9422]

I agree that almost all non-Rangers fans them booted out, but Hearts are one of the few clubs who have publicly released a statement that seemed sympathetic to Rangers. I definitely can't see them getting 7 clubs onside though, so I see virtually no chance of Rangers playing in the SPL next season.

 

In fact, if they don't get their act together fast, they won't have a club ready to field in any league by August.

 

Have you got a link to that please ?? I haven't seen or remember mention of it.

 

Dundee Utd bloke did (since "modified") and Kilmarnock guys have but don't recall a Hearts statement.

 

All I can find is(from 13th June):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18422397

 

Hearts: Director Sergejus Fedotovas has gone on the record to say he believes that learning lessons from the Rangers crisis is more important than punishing the club.

"Justice is very important, but lessons learned are more valuable," he said.

"The situation has highlighted issues that are much wider and Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment, but address the roots of the problem."

 

Which isn't particularly sympathetic IMO, could be wrong like and there could be another one somewhere.

 

Agree time is FAST running out.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Toonpack

[The Fish 10857]

I agree that almost all non-Rangers fans them booted out, but Hearts are one of the few clubs who have publicly released a statement that seemed sympathetic to Rangers. I definitely can't see them getting 7 clubs onside though, so I see virtually no chance of Rangers playing in the SPL next season.

 

In fact, if they don't get their act together fast, they won't have a club ready to field in any league by August.

All those clubs know they're financially fucked without the Old Firm. Rangers (or "The Rangers") will be playing SPL football next season

[toon_don 0]

All those clubs know they're financially fucked without the Old Firm. Rangers (or "The Rangers") will be playing SPL football next season

 

They'll be even more fucked if their own fans desert them. I think the chances of Rangers being booted out of the league are about 80%.

[toon_don 0]

Have you got a link to that please ?? I haven't seen or remember mention of it.

 

Dundee Utd bloke did (since "modified") and Kilmarnock guys have but don't recall a Hearts statement.

 

All I can find is(from 13th June):

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18422397

 

Hearts: Director Sergejus Fedotovas has gone on the record to say he believes that learning lessons from the Rangers crisis is more important than punishing the club.

"Justice is very important, but lessons learned are more valuable," he said.

"The situation has highlighted issues that are much wider and Scottish football should not put all focus on the punishment, but address the roots of the problem."

 

Which isn't particularly sympathetic IMO, could be wrong like and there could be another one somewhere.

 

Agree time is FAST running out.

 

That was the one I meant. It seemed to me they were unwilling to set a precedent which could be used againt them in future. You can interperet it different ways though I guess.

[Toonpack 9422]

That was the one I meant. It seemed to me they were unwilling to set a precedent which could be used againt them in future. You can interperet it different ways though I guess.

 

Yeah can be read many ways. They are totally skint and that £800K would have been a big difference maker for them as the money up there is so pitifull even before the OF take their share.

 

Aye the precedent is an interesting one, if Rangers "get away with it" why don't the rest (with debts) just do the same. Hearts can't, as whilst their debt is to a bank, it's Romanov's bank !!!! The inequity is staggering, Hearts were threatened with a winding up order by the SFA for paying their players late (they did and have paid all taxes), several clubs (Livingston, Spartans, Dunfermiline etc etc) have been severely punished for nowt like what Rangers have been doing with the knowledge of the SPL/SFA yet got nothing in terms of censure until HMRC stepped in and it all became public.

 

It's not so much the "tax evasion" that's got the fans pissed off it's the fact that it was used to "cheat" and inflate an already advantaged position and now the fact that somehow HMRC have let over £100 Mill in assetts be sold to the "new" owner/club for £5.5 Million.

 

It absolutely stinks.

[The Fish 10857]

They'll be even more fucked if their own fans desert them. I think the chances of Rangers being booted out of the league are about 80%.

Their own fans may grumble initially, but they'll soon forget about their anger and they'll move on.

[Toonpack 9422]

All those clubs know they're financially fucked without the Old Firm. Rangers (or "The Rangers") will be playing SPL football next season

 

That's a falacy Fish, the fucked without the OF bit anyway. The OF get 80% of the TV money. It's a crap league now, it'll likely remian that for a while, but it will be more competitive, which is all the "other" fans want.

 

The "fucked without the OF" card is being played hugely by oldco/newco/Glasgow Press, "they need to be in for the good of the scottish game". Aye they always were thinking about the good of the scottish game when they were tarting around with England and the Atlantic League thingy.

 

There was a great blog I read did an analysis some time back, worked out something like the equivalent of 300 more ST's per club would cover the "loss" of Rangers visits, not including the costs of policing and stewarding which are bigger for the OF than anyone and when one of the OF has been weak historically attendances elsewhere have always gone up.

[toon_don 0]

Their own fans may grumble initially, but they'll soon forget about their anger and they'll move on.

 

I'm not so sure. Fans of non-Old Firm clubs have suspected that the big two play by different rules, but this would be a tacit admission of it. Besides, ditching one of the Old Firm is the only way the other clubs can change anything in the SPL, as Celtic and Rangers together can veto and major changes to the league. Top of that list would be the frankly ludicrous distribution of TV revenue.

[The Fish 10857]

That's a falacy Fish, the fucked without the OF bit anyway. The OF get 80% of the TV money. It's a crap league now, it'll likely remian that for a while, but it will be more competitive, which is all the "other" fans want.

 

The "fucked without the OF" card is being played hugely by oldco/newco/Glasgow Press, "they need to be in for the good of the scottish game". Aye they always were thinking about the good of the scottish game when they were tarting around with England and the Atlantic League thingy.

 

There was a great blog I read did an analysis some time back, worked out something like the equivalent of 300 more ST's per club would cover the "loss" of Rangers visits, not including the costs of policing and stewarding which are bigger for the OF than anyone and when one of the OF has been weak historically attendances elsewhere have always gone up.

 

Where would Inverness get another 300 STs?

[Toonpack 9422]

Their own fans may grumble initially, but they'll soon forget about their anger and they'll move on.

 

I'm not so sure this time Fish.

 

http://www.splsurvey.co.uk/SPL_SURVEY_Newco-FFP-Results.pdf

[toon_don 0]

Where would Inverness get another 300 STs?

 

The Highland derby next season would more than compensate Inverness for Rangers not being there.

[The Fish 10857]

I'm not so sure this time Fish.

 

http://www.splsurvey...FFP-Results.pdf

You and I both know all that survey shows it was those fans say they'll do.

 

If you had polled 30,000 Newcastle fans at the beginning of the Premier League return and asked them if they would attend St James' if it were rebranded "Sports Direct Arena" at Christmas. I'd wager a large portion would have said they would not.

 

Football fans are fickle.

[Toonpack 9422]

Where would Inverness get another 300 STs?

 

(Equivalent of 300 ST's) 300 people is fuck all really, it only needs to be 300/game on average and their larger share of the 40% of the TV money Rangers get would also help (that assumes Celtic keep their 40% which is highly doubtfull as well). That's not many if you count away fans and "other" clubs are felt to be "competitive".

 

How good did we feel "going for Europe" there's another place opened up in Scotland without Rangers, that leads to more fans and Euro money for the teams that make it. That said, the Euro things a bit of a misnomer as Rangers even IF in the SPL are now banned from Europe for 3 years (for going into Liquidation) so that "extra" Euro space is still there irrespective.

 

One other stupid thing is that Oldco as the SPL share holder still get to vote in the SPL chairman vote on Newco (if and when Newco applies).

[toon_don 0]

You and I both know all that survey shows it was those fans say they'll do.

 

If you had polled 30,000 Newcastle fans at the beginning of the Premier League return and asked them if they would attend St James' if it were rebranded "Sports Direct Arena" at Christmas. I'd wager a large portion would have said they would not.

 

Football fans are fickle.

 

But we did well last season. The other SPL clubs have less chance of doing anything with a new, debt-free Rangers in the league.

[The Fish 10857]

My point was that what people say they'll do on a survey isn't necessarily what they'll actually do.

 

Also, a quick scan through that pdf shows the responses as % of Average Attendence; circa 10% responded. Is that enough to get a real picture of what people will actually do?

 

Edit Also, as an aside, despite 57% of Rangers fans saying they should be permitted back in the top flight immediately, not one of the comments reflect this.

Edited June 17, 2012 by The Fish

[Toonpack 9422]

You and I both know all that survey shows it was those fans say they'll do.

 

If you had polled 30,000 Newcastle fans at the beginning of the Premier League return and asked them if they would attend St James' if it were rebranded "Sports Direct Arena" at Christmas. I'd wager a large portion would have said they would not.

 

Football fans are fickle.

 

A stadium name change and this are nowhere close.

 

Yes fans are fickle, BUT they are REALLY fucking "up in arms" over this, it really has got to "what's the point" because of the cheating and apparent complicity of much of the "powers that be".

 

They all love their clubs (as fans do) but this is about real cheating, it's not far short of match fixing for years and years, and a potential whitewash of the same to preserve an overpowering duopoly.

[The Fish 10857]

A stadium name change and this are nowhere close.

 

Yes fans are fickle, BUT they are REALLY fucking "up in arms" over this, it really has got to "what's the point" because of the cheating and apparent complicity of much of the "powers that be".

 

They all love their clubs (as fans do) but this is about real cheating, it's not far short of match fixing for years and years, and a potential whitewash of the same to preserve an overpowering duopoly.

Perhaps the name change was a bad example, but my point was simply that while they may have said they'll never go to another SPL game (while this is going on), I don't buy it for a second. They'd be punishing their own club far more than the existence of Rangers in their top flight would.

 

I'm basically playing Devil's advocate, but I can't imagine a league-wide walk out if Rangers remain in the SPL

[toon_don 0]

From an Aberdeen perspective, I know several season ticket holders that say if Aberdeen are complicit in allowing Rangers back in, they deserve everything they get and they'd be done with the SPL. Obviously not everyone will follow through, but enough people simply don't buy season tickets for next season as a kneejerk reaction, that would make a huge hole in the club's budget.

[toon_don 0]

It's moot anyway, because they won't be let back in. There are still too many unresolved issues for it to be a viable option. They've got no players, we're waiting to hear what the SFA's revised punishment is, which could well be a suspension, and we're still waiting for the dual contract investigation to be resolved. And that's without taking into account their threats, arrogance and total lack of contrition. And they also still owe Hearts and Dundee United money, which they're never going to see.

 

They're fucked.

[Toonpack 9422]

Perhaps the name change was a bad example, but my point was simply that while they may have said they'll never go to another SPL game (while this is going on), I don't buy it for a second. They'd be punishing their own club far more than the existence of Rangers in their top flight would.

 

I'm basically playing Devil's advocate, but I can't imagine a league-wide walk out if Rangers remain in the SPL

 

I can't either, but there will be an effect, and I reckon at the very least, Rangers games (at home) will be VERY poorly attended by other clubs fans and there'll be bugger all go to Ibrox.

 

It's an appalling story really and I really don't think they'll get in without massive collusion, there just isn't the time.

[Toonpack 9422]

It's moot anyway, because they won't be let back in. There are still too many unresolved issues for it to be a viable option. They've got no players, we're waiting to hear what the SFA's revised punishment is, which could well be a suspension, and we're still waiting for the dual contract investigation to be resolved. And that's without taking into account their threats, arrogance and total lack of contrition. And they also still owe Hearts and Dundee United money, which they're never going to see.

 

They're fucked.

 

Agree, I reckon there's still loads more to come out, once the Liquidators get involved an all.

 

Crazy isn't it, they still owe Rapid Vienna money for Jelavic, which Rapid will never see, yet they get to keep (or rather it goes into the oldco pot) the fee they are owed from Everton.