LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Answer the question. You're the one bandying it about. Piss off you arsehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31222 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Once again showing yourself up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You sell 5 players then you buy 5 players, if the 5 players you buy are as good or better than the 5 you sold does the cost matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Once again showing yourself up. get yourself a pair of long range specs and fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 3116 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Where has this £27m figure come from? Its the amount of pocketed cash that Ashley had pocketed minus the the unpocketed cash outlayed for Cissé (which was pocketed cash until yesterday). Do you understand? Answer the question. Or are you to stupid to see that we can't be a progessive club until the chairman backs his manager with ALL of the pocketed cash not just some of it that has been unpocketed since yesterday. Chairman and others that pocket cash can't be progessive. I've been saying this for four years. But you all seem to ignore me. You must want to suck Ashley's cock and then pocket the discharge. You and the others that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31222 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Once again showing yourself up. get yourself a pair of long range specs and fuck off. Answer the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. It's clearly progress as a team, that much is irrefutable, (it's just not progress at the rate Leazes wants iyam), but for a relegation tipped side we're doing well. You're right about where we need to be strengthening yet (and retention is another matter altogether of course and every bit as important) but I think there was some telling stuff from casino boy who was going on about this sort of signing 'being ideal for the team Pardew's building'. I think that's just code for saying that we're not going to rush to buy a player unless the price is right. We'd been interested previously apparently but not prepared to pay £14 million. So I spose even if the 'Carroll money' was still ringfenced somewhere in a vault (not that it is) theres an argument for saying you dont just spend it immediately because you've got it, because you can end up with any old shit for mega money. I think they drive that austerity too hard btw as no club should ever be left without a striker as we were after Carroll left and I think it was fortunate that didnt hit us harder, but we've now ended up with Ba and Cisse for circa £10 mill combined. If the context is a club that hasnt won anything in the modern game, surely theres some sense in trying to progress steadily, particularly given our biggest asset, which is the apparent unity of the team. Perhaps different if you're a constant CL presence and cant afford one season out of it, maybe then you do go for broke, but that hasn't been us for the best part of a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Once again showing yourself up. get yourself a pair of long range specs and fuck off. Answer the question. I've asked you a few notable questions, not all football related. Answer those, or fuck off you silly arsehole, and go back to drinking at work. Edited January 18, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. It's clearly progress as a team, that much is irrefutable, (it's just not progress at the rate Leazes wants iyam), but for a relegation tipped side we're doing well. You're right about where we need to be strengthening yet (and retention is another matter altogether of course and every bit as important) but I think there was some telling stuff from casino boy who was going on about this sort of signing 'being ideal for the team Pardew's building'. I think that's just code for saying that we're not going to rush to buy a player unless the price is right. We'd been interested previously apparently but not prepared to pay £14 million. So I spose even if the 'Carroll money' was still ringfenced somewhere in a vault (not that it is) theres an argument for saying you dont just spend it immediately because you've got it, because you can end up with any old shit for mega money. I think they drive that austerity too hard btw as no club should ever be left without a striker as we were after Carroll left and I think it was fortunate that didnt hit us harder, but we've now ended up with Ba and Cisse for circa £10 mill combined. If the context is a club that hasnt won anything in the modern game, surely theres some sense in trying to progress steadily, particularly given our biggest asset, which is the apparent unity of the team. Perhaps different if you're a constant CL presence and cant afford one season out of it, maybe then you do go for broke, but that hasn't been us for the best part of a decade. Yeah, spot on that. Agree with all of it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 3116 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You'd have to be mental to say we aren't making progress at this point because it is so obvious that we have. It was obvious earlier and Chez's points months ago about this season's squad being stronger than last season's fleshes that point out. But to maintain now in spite of our league form and the signing of Cissé that we are not making progess is just sheer craziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 3116 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. It's clearly progress as a team, that much is irrefutable, (it's just not progress at the rate Leazes wants iyam), but for a relegation tipped side we're doing well. You're right about where we need to be strengthening yet (and retention is another matter altogether of course and every bit as important) but I think there was some telling stuff from casino boy who was going on about this sort of signing 'being ideal for the team Pardew's building'. I think that's just code for saying that we're not going to rush to buy a player unless the price is right. We'd been interested previously apparently but not prepared to pay £14 million. So I spose even if the 'Carroll money' was still ringfenced somewhere in a vault (not that it is) theres an argument for saying you dont just spend it immediately because you've got it, because you can end up with any old shit for mega money. I think they drive that austerity too hard btw as no club should ever be left without a striker as we were after Carroll left and I think it was fortunate that didnt hit us harder, but we've now ended up with Ba and Cisse for circa £10 mill combined. If the context is a club that hasnt won anything in the modern game, surely theres some sense in trying to progress steadily, particularly given our biggest asset, which is the apparent unity of the team. Perhaps different if you're a constant CL presence and cant afford one season out of it, maybe then you do go for broke, but that hasn't been us for the best part of a decade. Yeah, spot on that. Agree with all of it tbh. Yep. Pretty much accurate. It shows that the club are prepared to spend when it suits them and as much as I dislike Ashley I have no shame in admitting that it is a good strategy going forward. Especially considering what we are up against in terms of the finances of some of the clubs around us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? I can see that you are still hopeful that he will start to retain and build, rather than sell and replace. unfortunately, I'm 100% it isn't going to happen and saying so. I've said for over 4 years this was the aim so I'm not changing my stance now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You'd have to be mental to say we aren't making progress at this point because it is so obvious that we have. It was obvious earlier and Chez's points months ago about this season's squad being stronger than last season's fleshes that point out. But to maintain now in spite of our league form and the signing of Cissé that we are not making progess is just sheer craziness. open your eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22185 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 good post by the grey man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46086 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? I can see that you are still hopeful that he will start to retain and build, rather than sell and replace. unfortunately, I'm 100% it isn't going to happen and saying so. I've said for over 4 years this was the aim so I'm not changing my stance now. It's fine to be cautious, which is what alex is saying. But to maintain that things that are no longer true HAVE to be true because you've spent the last 4 years saying they are..... Well that's just stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsweeney 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You'd have to be mental to say we aren't making progress at this point because it is so obvious that we have. It was obvious earlier and Chez's points months ago about this season's squad being stronger than last season's fleshes that point out. But to maintain now in spite of our league form and the signing of Cissé that we are not making progess is just sheer craziness. Indeed. Not a big fan of Ashley's (esp. the communication with the fans), but I will admit that we currently seem to be in the best position we've in since SBR and don't seem to be harming the financial footing of the club while doing so. It also all comes down to if we take steps to hold onto the likes of Krul, Ba etc. It's that which has bitten us on the bum in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsweeney 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. how much more revenue do you need, further to 14th biggest in football, to not have to sidetrack money from sales to other areas of the club and back your managers ? Or pocket it. However it disappears........ What's the odds someone else will be sold for big money again, and the scenario continues. Well, in an ideal world more money would be available, maybe it is tbh - I live in hope. I haven't done the maths but I think it's fair to assume not all of the Carroll money has gone directly into player recruitment. But then again, the club was running at a massive loss when we went down. Now, that's Ashley's fault (relegation at least) but I make the point because the Carroll sale can't be taken in isolation - i.e. to ignore all that went before and demand the full £35m goes on transfers just isn't realistic. I mean you haven't even figured in the £6m-ish spent on Ben Arfa in the same window Carroll left. s that fair? I'm all for criticising Ashley when I think it's due but the criticism has to be fair otherwise it'll just be shown up for what it is - bias. I still don't like or trust him btw, before you accuse me of fallatio the ultimate proof will be when he starts to keep the core of best players, and start to build and improve, rather than sell and replace. This is what Toonpack hoped/thought he would do last summer, when he said for ages he would "revise his opinion of Mike Ashley after the deadline" then scuttled into his hole when it didn't happen. We all HOPE this will happen, but it won't. I stand by what I've always said. This is the point, he will not build properly. He is happy with using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct, making small profits and will sell a player if this is not achieved, because its easier than gambling on Champions League qualification. I'm not knocking this approach from his point of view, just saying what he will do, and saying that this is not what I as a supporter of the club want. I don't know why people get so defensive about this, its as if they simply can't bring themselves to admit it or something ie the fact he will NEVER do as well as his predecessors. As i said yesterday, its a blind spot they seem to have, but its a fact whether it suits them or not. I agree about hanging onto the players like. It's a concern because there's only a handful of players been here more than a couple of seasons. Until that trend is reversed the accusations of us being a selling club etc. won't go away. There's also the wage ceiling which is problematic to say the least once a 'more ambitious' club comes knocking. However, I was specifically talking about what's happened post-Carroll ('cherry picking' if you like ) so while I'm cynical about the longer term, I'm at least happy to give some credit where it's due. You surely must be happy about the players we've brought in recently (on the whole). To reiterate, it's on the pitch that matters, no? I can see that you are still hopeful that he will start to retain and build, rather than sell and replace. unfortunately, I'm 100% it isn't going to happen and saying so. I've said for over 4 years this was the aim so I'm not changing my stance now. It's fine to be cautious, which is what alex is saying. But to maintain that things that are no longer true HAVE to be true because you've spent the last 4 years saying they are..... Well that's just stupidity. Reminds me of blinded religious dogma ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 There's no way Ashley is employing the same strategy he was four years ago. He had Dennis Wise scouting and signing the likes of Xisco rather than Graham Carr bringing in the likes of Cabaye and Tiote. His changing behaviour towards the club needs constant reappraisal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'll stick in the obvious caveat 'at this juncture', given we're only half-way through January, but I'm more than happy with the transfer dealings of the club post-Carroll. We've progressed massively as a team since he left. Even letting Barton go for free seems like decent decision now. I wasn't arsed about Nolan going and he certainly isn't worth the deal West Ham gave him. We're short in a few areas (left-back / centre-half especially) of course. but why are people, who are supposed to support the club, happy with 27m quid of what ought to be the managers transfer money, disappearing ? Isn't this hindering progress ? It hasn't disappeared. Chez's explained this to you far more eloquently than I could on several occasions. That's not a defence of the owner per se but it's the reality of the situation as I see it. It's clearly progress as a team, that much is irrefutable, (it's just not progress at the rate Leazes wants iyam), but for a relegation tipped side we're doing well. You're right about where we need to be strengthening yet (and retention is another matter altogether of course and every bit as important) but I think there was some telling stuff from casino boy who was going on about this sort of signing 'being ideal for the team Pardew's building'. I think that's just code for saying that we're not going to rush to buy a player unless the price is right. We'd been interested previously apparently but not prepared to pay £14 million. So I spose even if the 'Carroll money' was still ringfenced somewhere in a vault (not that it is) theres an argument for saying you dont just spend it immediately because you've got it, because you can end up with any old shit for mega money. I think they drive that austerity too hard btw as no club should ever be left without a striker as we were after Carroll left and I think it was fortunate that didnt hit us harder, but we've now ended up with Ba and Cisse for circa £10 mill combined. If the context is a club that hasnt won anything in the modern game, surely theres some sense in trying to progress steadily, particularly given our biggest asset, which is the apparent unity of the team. Perhaps different if you're a constant CL presence and cant afford one season out of it, maybe then you do go for broke, but that hasn't been us for the best part of a decade. Yeah, spot on that. Agree with all of it tbh. Yep. Pretty much accurate. It shows that the club are prepared to spend when it suits them and as much as I dislike Ashley I have no shame in admitting that it is a good strategy going forward. Especially considering what we are up against in terms of the finances of some of the clubs around us. Aye, the latter point theres just no sense in ignoring-it has to be acknowledged. I spose we could take the rigid view you get in £35 million on a sale and recycle it instantly on a £35 million spend, but that's likely to get you paying over the odds and possibly in situations where you're just buying to find a replacement for a position rather than a player you're particularly interested in from a team point of view. At the end of the day our money is going to have to go further than the likes of Man C/Chelsea/Liverpool/Man U if we want to push on. Obviously he could put his own coin in but he's not going to so that argument is just beyond pointless dealing with the reality of the matter. As I say, I think we've had some fortune where we've seen too much austerity recently, but perhaps you get away with it more when the team spirit is there as the collective effort is greater to compensate for individual areas of weakness. The one thing for certain is it gets a bit daft looking at it any other way than asking; are we progressing on the pitch? We have and we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I said on twitter that I'd have preferred Cisse to Demba Ba in the summer, both of them are on another level to Carroll, ALTHOUGH that's not to say I'd be against him coming back. Hand on heart I think our best eleven is now better than Arsenal and Liverpool, not fucking about, I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I said on twitter that I'd have preferred Cisse to Demba Ba in the summer, both of them are on another level to Carroll, ALTHOUGH that's not to say I'd be against him coming back. Hand on heart I think our best eleven is now better than Arsenal and Liverpool, not fucking about, I believe it. When would you say we last had a side this good Stevie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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