Ashley apologists and Match Attendees

[Meenzer 15716]

I'd rather sit 300 miles away wishing the team well without giving the fcb money than end up posting smileys when equalisers cost us points and places because it proves me "right".

 

If we do fail to capitalise on the good start and end up say 11th I'd be disappointed and the thought of anyone standing there nudging his mates and saying "see, told you so" would just highten the sadness

 

That requires the people concerned to have mates.

 

don't you call them bum chums in your neck of the woods

 

No, that's what you called them when you were 10.

[Toonpack 9936]

I really don't know how you two manage it.

 

Can only assume that it's entertaining the both of you.

 

We are not discussing "the merry go round" subject. It's actually a totally different topic on which I think I've made some valid points, which I haven't seen refuted yet.

 

Although you know who can't help himself with the diatribe.

[Andrew 4857]

this thread should have had leazes starting post and then 8 others from the people who ACTUALLY voted for ashley in the poll

 

 

the football forums turning into a fucking caricature at the moment, a sad parody of a football discussion board.

[Gejon 2]

I'd rather sit 300 miles away wishing the team well without giving the fcb money than end up posting smileys when equalisers cost us points and places because it proves me "right".

 

If we do fail to capitalise on the good start and end up say 11th I'd be disappointed and the thought of anyone standing there nudging his mates and saying "see, told you so" would just highten the sadness

 

That requires the people concerned to have mates.

 

don't you call them bum chums in your neck of the woods

 

No, that's what you called them when you were 10.

 

Did they have 'the gays' 80 years ago?

[Baggio 0]

The injuries we have are now going to ram this point home, when James Perch has to come on, and we have 3 members of a back 4 consisting of Danny Simpson, James perch and Ryan Taylor, it only shows you are easily pleased and the transfer window was way short of what a progressive club would be looking to bring into their team, especially with 35m quid burning a hole in the bank.

 

Yet the defenders we had play for us in the final season before Ashley bought the club were...

 

Taylor

Bramble

Craig Moore

Onyewu (loan)

Carr

Babayaro

Ramage

Huntington

Edgar

 

Any others I've left out?

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Who are the 'Ashley apologists' again?

 

they are all over this thread, not telling us how often they go to games, like a rash.

Ashley apologists just because they don't go to games??

 

I would have thought they would be supporters of his, no??

 

Fucking Fool

[acrossthepond 878]

The injuries we have are now going to ram this point home, when James Perch has to come on, and we have 3 members of a back 4 consisting of Danny Simpson, James perch and Ryan Taylor, it only shows you are easily pleased and the transfer window was way short of what a progressive club would be looking to bring into their team, especially with 35m quid burning a hole in the bank.

 

Yet the defenders we had play for us in the final season before Ashley bought the club were...

 

Taylor

Bramble

Craig Moore

Onyewu (loan)

Carr

Babayaro

Ramage

Huntington

Edgar

 

Any others I've left out?

 

Your arguments are like two ships passing in the night. I agree with what you're saying, which is that our top choice defence so far this season (R. Taylor/Colo/S. Taylor/Simpson), is far better than any four players selected from the above list. But Leazes is saying that if 'your man' Fat Mike were actually running the club in a competent way, rather than gambling on us having no major injuries, he would've invested in cover for positions where we were thin. He's also right. As shit as they all were, we had six CBs in the list you've given above. This season we have 3. Our first XI looks like gold, but scratch it and you find brass underneath. There was no reason for it to be that way. We had 35m to spend in the summer. For 8-9m we could've had Ridgewell and a cheap right-back, for example. We hardly had to break the bank, but the squad would've been so much stronger.

 

I don't think many would like to swap our defence then for our defence now. But I also think that the failure to invest in key areas of the team shows Ashley's lack of ambition and reveals his fundamental plan to be "make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible." We've seen it so many times before - gambling on Kinnear, gambling in January 2009, gambling on Carroll, etc etc. Not buying defensive cover was just another Ashley gamble. We'll see if it pays off (for him, at least - is there absolutely anyone who calls himself a Toon fan who wouldn't prefer that we had spent the money on new players?) But let's not make out that it's some sort of brilliant plan and he's doing so well. He's a chancer. It's working...for now.

Edited December 9, 2011 by acrossthepond

[Neville Neville Neville 0]

I like Mike Ashley. Whenever there is a newcastle game on, I go out for several lemonades with him in front of the computer (which i take out as well obviously, and no its not a laptop its a fully sized inconvenient early 1990s destop PC), give him a twenty for each round, let him get the drinks and keep the change, then everytime he goes to the toilet I go round the entire pub apologising for him and also also demanding apologies for him from everyone as I'm not exactly sure what an Ashley apologist does. If there is time I repeat the same thing with as many other Ashleys that I can think of, which are mainly Ashley from coronation street, Ashley Olsen, and Ashton Kutcher because it sort of sounds like that.

 

If Mike Ashley has decided to go to the game, I repeat the same process with a picture of mike ashley's face stuck onto my desktop pc monitor and drop an envelope labelled 'Super Mike Ashley - I apologise both to and for you both to and from everyone' which contains the money I would have given him at sports direct on the way back from the pub.

 

So that's one for the ashley apologists who don't go to the game (maybe 2, as I've been carefully analysing LM's posts and think he may be subtly alluding to toonpack being an 'ashley apologist' but I'm not yet ready to commit fully to that inference)

[spongebob toonpants 4132]

I really don't know how you two manage it.

 

Can only assume that it's entertaining the both of you.

 

We are not discussing "the merry go round" subject. It's actually a totally different topic on which I think I've made some valid points, which I haven't seen refuted yet.

 

Although you know who can't help himself with the diatribe.

 

TP and LM-Two sides of the same coin

[jonasjuice 0]

Classic sexual tension if you ask me.

[Gejon 2]

The injuries we have are now going to ram this point home, when James Perch has to come on, and we have 3 members of a back 4 consisting of Danny Simpson, James perch and Ryan Taylor, it only shows you are easily pleased and the transfer window was way short of what a progressive club would be looking to bring into their team, especially with 35m quid burning a hole in the bank.

 

Yet the defenders we had play for us in the final season before Ashley bought the club were...

 

Taylor

Bramble

Craig Moore

Onyewu (loan)

Carr

Babayaro

Ramage

Huntington

Edgar

 

Any others I've left out?

 

Your arguments are like two ships passing in the night. I agree with what you're saying, which is that our top choice defence so far this season (R. Taylor/Colo/S. Taylor/Simpson), is far better than any four players selected from the above list. But Leazes is saying that if 'your man' Fat Mike were actually running the club in a competent way, rather than gambling on us having no major injuries, he would've invested in cover for positions where we were thin. He's also right. As shit as they all were, we had six CBs in the list you've given above. This season we have 3. Our first XI looks like gold, but scratch it and you find brass underneath. There was no reason for it to be that way. We had 35m to spend in the summer. For 8-9m we could've had Ridgewell and a cheap right-back, for example. We hardly had to break the bank, but the squad would've been so much stronger.

 

I don't think many would like to swap our defence then for our defence now. But I also think that the failure to invest in key areas of the team shows Ashley's lack of ambition and reveals his fundamental plan to be "make as much money as possible while spending as little as possible." We've seen it so many times before - gambling on Kinnear, gambling in January 2009, gambling on Carroll, etc etc. Not buying defensive cover was just another Ashley gamble. We'll see if it pays off (for him, at least - is there absolutely anyone who calls himself a Toon fan who wouldn't prefer that we had spent the money on new players?) But let's not make out that it's some sort of brilliant plan and he's doing so well. He's a chancer. It's working...for now.

 

You say we had 6 centre backs then but 3 now, do you think Edgar, Huntington and Ramage are much better than Perch and Kadar? I don't, so that makes it 5 centre backs to 6 in my book. I also think Tavernier has looked a lot better prospect than those mentioned, we just haven't had to resort to kids like that so far (I do realise he is on loan) [/Ashley apologist].

 

FWIW I though apart from the Liverpool game Gooch was fucking woeful for us, I know he somehow went on to AC MIlan but he really did make Bramble look like Maldini. I was at the Charlton away game and he was absolutely horrific.

 

Also if we spent £9m on Ridgewell and a 'cheap' right back we will have been absolutely raped

 

I certainly agree we have not invested properly and we should have been able to make sure we had quality first 11 players as well as good reserve players which we haven't done. Just don't think the numbers you have mentioned in your post tell the true story as you have only included the 3 good defenders in our team but neglected to mention the 'fillers' who aren't at that level but are still very comparable to some of the six you mentioned as part of the old squad.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Gejon

[ewerk 31195]

Who are the 'Ashley apologists' again?

 

He has still to answer this question.

[toonotl 3107]

Who are the 'Ashley apologists' again?

 

CT. This is all CT's fault. That's what I'm taking from this anyway.

[acrossthepond 878]

You say we had 6 centre backs then but 3 now, do you think Edgar, Huntington and Ramage are much better than Perch and Kadar? I don't, so that makes it 5 centre backs to 6 in my book. I also think Tavernier has looked a lot better prospect than those mentioned, we just haven't had to resort to kids like that so far (I do realise he is on loan) [/Ashley apologist].

 

FWIW I though apart from the Liverpool game Gooch was fucking woeful for us, I know he somehow went on to AC MIlan but he really did make Bramble look like Maldini. I was at the Charlton away game and he was absolutely horrific.

 

Also if we spent £9m on Ridgewell and a 'cheap' right back we will have been absolutely raped

 

I certainly agree we have not invested properly and we should have been able to make sure we had quality first 11 players as well as good reserve players which we haven't done. Just don't think the numbers you have mentioned in your post tell the true story as you have only included the 3 good defenders in our team but neglected to mention the 'fillers' who aren't at that level but are still very comparable to some of the six you mentioned as part of the old squad.

 

Fair point like but Perch isn't a CB, so I'm not including him. If you want to include Kadar, fine, I don't think he's going to make it much further than Huntington/Ramage/Edgar did, so that's a fair comparison. 6 to 4, then. Not to mention that at present we have only one RB, one LB who might actually be a RB but doesn't play anyway even though we blew the 'hefty' fee of 5m on him, and a right midfielder playing at LB.

 

I think the going price quoted at some point for Ridgewell was 5m. I'd rather get him for 3-4m but 5m isn't too stiff a price to pay for someone who can cover at CB and LB, two noticeably weak areas for us.

 

I also don't rate Williamson as a 'good' defender. He looked decent whilst played alongside Coloccini last season but put Bramble there and he would've looked good too, much as when he was paired with Woodgate.

[Dolly Potter MD 0]

I'm quite enjoying us pushing for European qualification with a group of players that appear to be wanted by what the press consider the big 6.

 

A big improvement over what we had and where we were when he took over.

 

Fingers crossed we can keep progressing but we could do with the financial fair play rules to be enforced strongly for that to happen, since he's turned around what was a financial mess into a break even one.

Absolutely the right attitude that, especially the bit in bold, irrespective of whether you like the owner or not, or think he's doing it the right way or not, it's something we should all be able to agree on (or most of us anyway).

 

It's right though and I don't see the point in worrying about players leaving, in fact the way we've been scouting players over the past few years I feel confident that we could do a good job of replacing them anyway, I can remember people worried about Baye leaving but who gives him a second thought now? Or Given, or Nolan.

 

Some players have left that have bothered me like Enrique but it happens with all clubs, others have gone and we've not only replaced them but improved too with their replacements.

 

I feel similar about our scouting network as I did about Arsenal's a decade or so ago in that we've been able to sell what is considered our stars and replace them for less money while attempting to improve.

 

Their most notable discoveries during their years of dominance, of Arsenal's famed scouting system that is, went on to become mainstays of their first team/formed a spine to be built around. Arsenal's big-money sales have coincided with a need for generational change in the squad, and the likes of Henry/Viera were moved on in the twilight of their careers. And during a player's most productive years they would actually fight tooth & nail to keep them, as was the case with us with Dyer when a then cashed-up Leeds were poaching England's best young players, to accompany the products of their academy.

 

I'd also add that they've always prepared to fork out the necessary going-rate, when the right player (or replacement) came along. They haven't been overly prudent misers in the market, that have engaged in heated negotiations with suitors. The most recent example being Chamberlain, as a development prospect, being the natural successor to Nasri ie. more of a creative wideman, than just a tear-away winger with pace, given free license to drift inside.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

Who are the 'Ashley apologists' again?

 

He has still to answer this question.

Going to tell us then Leazes??

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Who are the 'Ashley apologists' again?

 

He has still to answer this question.

Going to tell us then Leazes??

 

Why do you care so much?

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Just googled Tecatos new user name. That is truly disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JawD 99]

I dont consider myself an apologist, far from it. but I did stop going to games. Not for footballing reaasons like, for family reasons. While the decision to do so was a tough one and the closer to the start of this season the tough it became. But I was so sick of all the shite. All the behind the scenes bollocks. I cannot fucking stand DL, he just makes my skin crawl. everything about him. I mean I was fucked off at times with FFS which stupid decisions were made (Souness being one of the worst I can think of, I didnt actually have an issue with the appointment of KD, only with where he took the team). But, for the FS appointment of Souness see the MA appointment of JFK. The team was on the slide at the end of the reign by FFS but MA came in and done his utmost to finish the job.

 

I've said it time over. Like Stevie says it's near impossible now to not say stuff on this subject you havent before. But I always fail to see why you have to support one or the other, be either pro FFS or pro MA when pretty much everyone sits in the middle. Only a fool couldnt see the good done under FFS or be blinkered to suggest he never fucked it up. But the same for MA, you'd have to be a fool to think he was some kind of saviour given the train wreck tactics he sometimes employs.

 

Not so much affected by not going now. I actually read more about them now than I did when I went. Maybe because I feel Im missing out. I also watch things like NUFC TV that I never used to and so on. What I do know is that Im trying my utmost to enjoy it. Afterall, what happens on the pitch is te most important thing. As LM has said in the past, was anyone complaining when we were "flying high" under FFS no matter the finances? No. In that same vein, we're pushing for Europe now under MA so surely the same applies? I dont like what is going on in the background, but fuck me if I ignored the football and ignored how well we have done this season and only thought about the Stadium Name, the selling of players or what an utter c~nt DL is then I might as well jack it all together.

[JawD 99]

Just googled Tecatos new user name. That is truly disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the worst part was when he chose it, It started my mind working. "I wonder how long the tube is and how they manage to force it all the way down?"

[Renton 21985]

Honestly, it really seems as if Leazes begrudges anyone even remotely enjoying what is a decent, good spirited squad doing well in the strongest league in the world. Yes, we won't go back to the days of the mid 90s or early 2000s with the current ownership, but I sincerely doubt we would have under Shepherd the way things were going either.

 

Spot on. Leazes had a go at travelling Newcastle fans last season at the Liverpool match for abusing Caroll. In his mind, that was an endorsement of Ashley.

I've got to say I hate Ashley, or at least a lot of things he has done, especially the stadium name change. That said I can honestly say I've enjoyed the last three seasons under his tenure far more than the last few under Hall and Shepherd. You can just tell that the recent (relative) success actually pisses Leazes off, despite his protestations to the contrary. Also, are our crowds in decline? Wasn't Chelsea a sell out?

 

Leazes has gone beyond tedious now and is bordering on mental illness imo.

[Renton 21985]

what did you say he wanted to do with the money AT THE TIME, when you said "this is the first time he has had money to spend". I repeat, what was it that you were hoping he would do with the money before the transfer deadline, that would make you say you would revise your views on his ambitions for the club ?

 

Edit.

 

I didn't hear you say before the deadline, that the Carroll cash would go to meeting costs ie a selling club, for a club that had the 14th biggest revenues in world football when he bought the club. What has he done to erode that ?

 

I hoped he would spend it, that said Ba for nowt (in transfer fee) and him reducing his exposure (if he has, as I suspect) as opposed to Ruiz for £10 Mill, for example, is perfectly fine, in fact it's even better.

 

so what about the other 30m or whatever ? Where is that ? In view of the fact they picked up Ba for a good fee and he looks an extremely good buy and footballer, don't you agree that other positions could have been strengthened using this foolproof scouting system employed, which is what a progressive club would do, especially if they had confidence in their scouts ?

 

See post #40 and try and comprehend what you are reading.

 

BTW, Looking forward to your disection of Shinton's post. When some on here (me included) post similar to much of that you'd be over it like a rash

 

answer the questions.

 

Edit

 

I respect Bobs opinions, because he saw the old days, so appreciates the old regime, which stops him wearing rose tinted glasses about the new owner, answers direct questions with direct answers and for the most part sticks to the facts which obviously gives his answers more credibility.

 

Are you actually going to answer Bob's points or by evading them are you tacitly agreeing with him?

 

Can you not see the hypocrisy in criticising others for not answering questions? Not to mention the irony.

 

Shouldn't you be addressing people's points regardless of who the poster is?

[plausibledenial 0]

for the want of a better thread title -

 

how many of these people who are backing Mike Ashleys prudency/business methods/using the club as a vehicle for Sports Direct/lack of investment in the team [call it what you like] actually go to games and spend their cash on watching the club.

 

My point is that, those who view the club from afar - and I'm not saying everybody who views the club from afar because some share the views of myself and others about him and how he is running this club - appear to be more able to accept the lower ambitions and expectations that are now imposed on this football club.

 

Is it because, as they are not spending their money on watching the team, they find it easier to either take it or leave it and forget about the result on a saturday or sunday night etc ?

 

Or is it because they generally aren't so committed ?

 

Most of the match goers appear to have more desire to see a winning team on the pitch rather than a "business" , which reflects their different priorities for the club.

 

Just a thought.......I'd like to add more, but just now can't put into words what else it is......see how the responses go.

 

Maybe a poll, or an indicator of who and who doesn't attend matches on a fairly regular basis will give a clearer picture.

The problem is that FMA only' business plan ' is to sweat money out of the club ... selling Carroll for £ 35 m and probably Tiote in Jan ..is his way of screwing as much cash out of the club ...until he eventually sells up in a few years time when the market has turned in his favour . By that time he will have already as good as made his money back ..anything else will be profit .

[LeazesMag 0]

I like Mike Ashley. Whenever there is a newcastle game on, I go out for several lemonades with him in front of the computer (which i take out as well obviously, and no its not a laptop its a fully sized inconvenient early 1990s destop PC), give him a twenty for each round, let him get the drinks and keep the change, then everytime he goes to the toilet I go round the entire pub apologising for him and also also demanding apologies for him from everyone as I'm not exactly sure what an Ashley apologist does. If there is time I repeat the same thing with as many other Ashleys that I can think of, which are mainly Ashley from coronation street, Ashley Olsen, and Ashton Kutcher because it sort of sounds like that.

 

If Mike Ashley has decided to go to the game, I repeat the same process with a picture of mike ashley's face stuck onto my desktop pc monitor and drop an envelope labelled 'Super Mike Ashley - I apologise both to and for you both to and from everyone' which contains the money I would have given him at sports direct on the way back from the pub.

 

So that's one for the ashley apologists who don't go to the game (maybe 2, as I've been carefully analysing LM's posts and think he may be subtly alluding to toonpack being an 'ashley apologist' but I'm not yet ready to commit fully to that inference)

 

only Toonpack ? I remember you giving me flak for saying Mike Ashley would never match the previous regime.

 

At least you are honest.

[LeazesMag 0]

The injuries we have are now going to ram this point home, when James Perch has to come on, and we have 3 members of a back 4 consisting of Danny Simpson, James perch and Ryan Taylor, it only shows you are easily pleased and the transfer window was way short of what a progressive club would be looking to bring into their team, especially with 35m quid burning a hole in the bank.

 

Yet the defenders we had play for us in the final season before Ashley bought the club were...

 

Taylor

Bramble

Craig Moore

Onyewu (loan)

Carr

Babayaro

Ramage

Huntington

Edgar

 

Any others I've left out?

 

where did we finish only 12 months before your man bought the club, and implemented his DOF system that you supported, and your pro-Wise anti-Keegan stance that you swore by ?

 

Sorry like Baggy, I can produce the usual league positions, european and champions League qualification, growth of the club over that 15 years, and you "argument" simply doesn't have a leg to stand on. I won't repeat what I've said hundreds of times, I'm trying to take note of what trophyshy has said, but seeing numerous people still not getting it makes it very difficult.