Tiote or Hamann?

[ChezGiven 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

[manc-mag 1]

Hamann was the better technical footballer (he was a good footballer in his own right fwiw) but in simple terms, Tiote's game is more impactful than Hamann's was for us.

 

Hamann was also immensely easy to dislike once he'd left, I'm not so sure that would apply if Cheick went though.

[manc-mag 1]

By the way, Hamann drinks in my local pub and wears white jeans and is still immensely easy to dislike.

[Guest alex]

Yeah, I think you're right (edit: Chez). Seems like a long time ago like (well, it was a long time ago I suppose). I like Hamann btw, comes across well on TV. Bit of a coward on the pitch though, even if he was a good player.

Edited December 9, 2011 by alex

[Guest alex]

By the way, Hamann drinks in my local pub and wears white jeans and is still immensely easy to dislike.

Didn't you once text me to say he had a massive cock btw? Not from the pub, I hasten to add.

[LeazesMag 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

Edited December 9, 2011 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

By the way, Hamann drinks in my local pub and wears white jeans and is still immensely easy to dislike.

Didn't you once text me to say he had a massive cock btw? Not from the pub, I hasten to add.

 

 

Aye. Just another reason to dislike the man tbh.

 

I don't get in synch with him for bog visits anymore for the sake of my self-esteem.

[ChezGiven 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

 

Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument.

 

Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really.

 

The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock.

[manc-mag 1]

Potentially? I hope Hamann's isnt still growing like.

[ChezGiven 0]

We can only guess at the magnitude of Tiote's ivory sword.

[manc-mag 1]

It's so big it's sheer weight is gradually dragging his face down towards his bollocks. In a year he will be forehead alone and as such we should cash in now.

[LeazesMag 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

 

Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument.

 

Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really.

 

The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock.

 

maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel.

 

Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it [albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes].

 

You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen.

 

The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do.

Edited December 9, 2011 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

Reported.

[LeazesMag 0]

Reported.

 

sigh.

[ChezGiven 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

 

Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument.

 

Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really.

 

The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock.

 

maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel.

 

Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it d[albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes].

 

You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen.

 

The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do.

Its the first time you've asked me, the answers are: i strongly suspect that is what is happening, the manager will have some sort of say but probably along the lines of answering 'can we get top 10 without him?' not final say and no, not all of it but i suspect he will get more than £3.5m to replace Tiote (which is where the interesting angle sits).

 

For me, answering any questions like that is straightforward. I dont need to jump through hoops or contort arguments to suit an agenda as i treat the change in our circumstances as a fact of life, one that would be great to change but thats easier said than done. The strategy for the football club is constrained by its finances, whether we are aiming for 6th or 8th is a fine point of debate but not one i will get me knickers in a twist about.

[Meenzer 15731]

By the way, Hamann drinks in my local pub and wears white jeans and is still immensely easy to dislike.

Didn't you once text me to say he had a massive cock btw? Not from the pub, I hasten to add.

 

 

Aye. Just another reason to dislike the man tbh.

 

I don't get in synch with him for bog visits anymore for the sake of my self-esteem.

 

All the more reason for him to wear white jeans I suppose. Well, that and being German.

[LeazesMag 0]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

 

Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument.

 

Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really.

 

The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock.

 

maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel.

 

Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it d[albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes].

 

You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen.

 

The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do.

Its the first time you've asked me, the answers are: i strongly suspect that is what is happening, the manager will have some sort of say but probably along the lines of answering 'can we get top 10 without him?' not final say and no, not all of it but i suspect he will get more than £3.5m to replace Tiote (which is where the interesting angle sits).

 

For me, answering any questions like that is straightforward. I dont need to jump through hoops or contort arguments to suit an agenda as i treat the change in our circumstances as a fact of life, one that would be great to change but thats easier said than done. The strategy for the football club is constrained by its finances, whether we are aiming for 6th or 8th is a fine point of debate but not one i will get me knickers in a twist about.

 

Assuming Tiote wanted to leave, lets say for the same reasons as Hamann for the sake of argument without getting drawn into the reasons why, if he gets 20m for Tiote, Pardew should get 20m to spend on the team as he sees fit, if the club has serious ambitions to progress. You do see this don't you ?

 

Not a penny less. This has not happened with the sale of Carroll, and if it happens again, nobody not even you, can make a case for the club being a selling club again any longer.

 

In my opinion, I think this will happen, whether the next big sale is Tiote, Colocinni or Krul, it is going to happen. You know it, I know it, Toonpack knows it, everybody knows it. So why pretend you don't ?

 

And why pretend it isn't the final nail in the optimistic coffin that some of you are persisting in carrying around ?

Edited December 9, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Toonpack 9973]

Which fact? About Tiote being sold? Thats not a fact. The only facts in that post are that we lost two great players becauae of shit managment.

 

Agreee with alex there, Hamann was probably the better footballer. Was it the 1-1 at home against Arsenal he scored and ran the show for us? That was a top Arsenal side too.

 

he's talking about the setup and ambitions of the club, which is far bigger than a one-off decision in both cases. As you are also getting carried away with a short run of results rather than look at the longer term and the likelihood of keeping this going, you need to take your specs off Chez, you do appear to have became very defensive lately.

 

You know the same as some of the rest of us, that Tiote will be sold to maximise his selling value, and nothing to do with footballing reasons or personality clashes etc which happen in life. The 2 situations are worlds apart.

 

Indeed but i was just pointing out its not a fact yet, its a strong opinion based argument.

 

Not being defensive, just absolutely cant abide Dolly's post saying that Hamman got sold for re-sale value (and because he fell out with the manager) just like Tiote "will be" (apart from the manager bit) but selling Hamann was alright because they were proper 'football men'. Its empty, meaningless nonsense that proves nothing unless you want to read things into it. Which you cant really.

 

The better debate is who was the better footballer and potentially who has the bigger cock.

 

maybe the debate is about who is the better footballer, but like all threads [or even daft NO type polls], it becomes more than that even without going down the usual predictable channel.

 

Tiote is not sold yet, but - calling a spade a spade - do YOU think he will be sold to maximise his value, and when it happens, do YOU think the manager will have a say in the matter, and do YOU think the manager will be handed the fee to build on his team and continue trying to improve it d[albeit after being deliberately seriously weakened against his wishes].

 

You can see this point, you know you can, you are just deliberately not answering it, and you know damn well - like the other Ashley apologists ie Toonpack, jaysouthernmag, CT, ewerk etc, what is going to happen.

 

The point about Dolly's post is that Hamman fell out with the manager, so they backed their manager and allowed him to replace a good player in the best way possible according to the judgement of the manager by allowing him the funds from the sale. That is what "football men" do.

Its the first time you've asked me, the answers are: i strongly suspect that is what is happening, the manager will have some sort of say but probably along the lines of answering 'can we get top 10 without him?' not final say and no, not all of it but i suspect he will get more than £3.5m to replace Tiote (which is where the interesting angle sits).

 

For me, answering any questions like that is straightforward. I dont need to jump through hoops or contort arguments to suit an agenda as i treat the change in our circumstances as a fact of life, one that would be great to change but thats easier said than done. The strategy for the football club is constrained by its finances, whether we are aiming for 6th or 8th is a fine point of debate but not one i will get me knickers in a twist about.

 

Assuming Tiote wanted to leave, lets say for the same reasons as Hamann for the sake of argument without getting drawn into the reasons why, if he gets 20m for Tiote, Pardew should get 20m to spend on the team as he sees fit, if the club has serious ambitions to progress. You do see this don't you ?

 

Not a penny less. This has not happened with the sale of Carroll, and if it happens again, nobody not even you, can make a case for the club being a selling club again any longer.

 

In my opinion, I think this will happen, whether the next big sale is Tiote, Colocinni or Krul, it is going to happen. You know it, I know it, Toonpack knows it, everybody knows it. So why pretend you don't ?

 

And why pretend it isn't the final nail in the optimistic coffin that some of you are persisting in carrying around ?

 

And in that, it's absolutely no different to just about everyone else. We are not a "special case", although some seem to be special needs.

[Guest alex]

Nah, there's definitely a blatant disregard for any team building and the progression that comes with that that you don't find in the club's we're hoping to compete with. You compare us to Spurs when it suits your argument but they told Chelsea to fuck off when they offered silly money for Modric for example.

[Dolly Potter MD 0]

Re: comparison of the two players, for now.

 

Hammann was a much more rounded player, with the *football smarts to match.

 

*as defined by his re-invention as a footballer, at Liverpool..... which was a similar transformation as Speed under SBR.

[toonotl 3116]

calling a spade a spade

 

Racist.

[Toonpack 9973]

Nah, there's definitely a blatant disregard for any team building and the progression that comes with that that you don't find in the club's we're hoping to compete with. You compare us to Spurs when it suits your argument but they told Chelsea to fuck off when they offered silly money for Modric for example.

 

There is no real evidence (as yet) of a blatant disregard for "team building". Spurs told Chelsea to fuck off because they could afford to, their history of turning profits means they don't/didn't need the cash to keep doing what they do.

 

They believe they can get into the Champions League with what they've got, the silly money for Modric isn't so "silly" if they land the Champions League. In other words, spurn silly money and keep Modric and reap CL money (that's their gamble) and the CL may turn his head back again. That said, if Arry wants a few new players in, they will sell to buy at some point, they always have. Even if they hit the CL jackpot. That sale could yet be Modric as he still hasn't signed his new "bumper" contract offer, and the players hold all the cards.

 

I compare us to Spurs because we are now doing what Spurs (and others) have been doing for years, we're still behind on the timeline though. However, because we are "big" the catching up should not be such a long road.

[LeazesMag 0]

Nah, there's definitely a blatant disregard for any team building and the progression that comes with that that you don't find in the club's we're hoping to compete with. You compare us to Spurs when it suits your argument but they told Chelsea to fuck off when they offered silly money for Modric for example.

 

There is no real evidence (as yet) of a blatant disregard for "team building".

 

no. Of course not.

[TicTacWoe 0]

I'd say that if Tiote is sold for say 20 million, we might spend 3-7 million on a replacement, and maybe another 4 million or so on a player in a different position, the other ten million will not go on players.

 

This is far from ideal (and as Alex says, would not be the attitude of the clubs that currently surround us in the table) but there's nothing that can be done about it. Best bet it to hope the relatively cheap replacements are decent which they may well be.

[Guest alex]

Nah, there's definitely a blatant disregard for any team building and the progression that comes with that that you don't find in the club's we're hoping to compete with. You compare us to Spurs when it suits your argument but they told Chelsea to fuck off when they offered silly money for Modric for example.

 

There is no real evidence (as yet) of a blatant disregard for "team building".