***Official Mike Ashley Euro express thread***

[LeazesMag 0]

a couple of teams will catch NUFC before now and the end of the season. Not sure who, Stoke maybe, but we haven't got a cat in hells chance of qualifying for europe through the league position, especially when another player is sold and the money is pocketed.

 

Will Alan Pardew be tempted to join another club, that backs their manager, soon ?

Howay man. We've had a poor run and 7th isn't exactly nailed on (nor does it guarantee Europe at this stage) but to say we haven't got a cat in hell's chance on one hand then to struggle to name more than one team below us who might finish above us hardly makes sense. Btw, isn't Stoke Baggio's local team?

 

we haven't. Looking at our squad - and the transfer policy, lets face it most of us are wondering who will be next to leave and see the money disappear - and since August it's been obvious it isn't good enough to attain a high enough league position over 38 games to qualify for europe.

 

Some may have been fooled by a decent start, against generally the poorer teams, and a more athletic midfield [which I predicted would probably happen when Nolan was sold] but not everyone is so gullible.

 

The judgement may be harsh, but I'm sticking by it, as well as my long term view - as usual.

 

So which of the clubs below us at the moment do you think has a better squad than we do? Or a better starting 11.

 

7th won't do it, and only 1 club will mean we finish 8th, and at the moment Stoke are closest with half the season left. This is the best it gets under Mike Ashley, enjoy it while you can. Pardew will go when a big club that backs their managers comes in for him, and most of the best players will be sold as soon as we get acceptable offers. This is no way to build a big football club.

[Baggio 0]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I think thats a tad pessimistic. I think its clear that the introduction Santon has made a massive difference to the overall balance of the team and our attacking options. As long as we stick with Ben Arfa or Rtaylor on the wing then I think that balance is kept.

 

Didnt November December also tie in with Tiote coming back (rusty) and S Taylor getting injured?

 

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Hopefully Guthrie will pick up where he left off and we should be okay.

 

Ben Arfa has got to play on the right instead of Obertan, but the squad is now being seen as too small and not good enough.

 

This is what happens when you sell your best players and don't build a team with the intention to improve as you go, and adopt a sell and replace with cheaper approach.

 

Have we ever had a squad with huge depth? Serious question.

 

We're in the same position as any other club that loses their best players, they're going to be missed and you have to make do until they come back.

[Baggio 0]

a couple of teams will catch NUFC before now and the end of the season. Not sure who, Stoke maybe, but we haven't got a cat in hells chance of qualifying for europe through the league position, especially when another player is sold and the money is pocketed.

 

Will Alan Pardew be tempted to join another club, that backs their manager, soon ?

Howay man. We've had a poor run and 7th isn't exactly nailed on (nor does it guarantee Europe at this stage) but to say we haven't got a cat in hell's chance on one hand then to struggle to name more than one team below us who might finish above us hardly makes sense. Btw, isn't Stoke Baggio's local team?

 

we haven't. Looking at our squad - and the transfer policy, lets face it most of us are wondering who will be next to leave and see the money disappear - and since August it's been obvious it isn't good enough to attain a high enough league position over 38 games to qualify for europe.

 

Some may have been fooled by a decent start, against generally the poorer teams, and a more athletic midfield [which I predicted would probably happen when Nolan was sold] but not everyone is so gullible.

 

The judgement may be harsh, but I'm sticking by it, as well as my long term view - as usual.

 

So which of the clubs below us at the moment do you think has a better squad than we do? Or a better starting 11.

 

7th won't do it, and only 1 club will mean we finish 8th, and at the moment Stoke are closest with half the season left. This is the best it gets under Mike Ashley, enjoy it while you can. Pardew will go when a big club that backs their managers comes in for him, and most of the best players will be sold as soon as we get acceptable offers. This is no way to build a big football club.

 

But which clubs have a better squad or starting 11 outside of the top 7 than we do?

[Christmas Tree 4826]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I think thats a tad pessimistic. I think its clear that the introduction Santon has made a massive difference to the overall balance of the team and our attacking options. As long as we stick with Ben Arfa or Rtaylor on the wing then I think that balance is kept.

 

Didnt November December also tie in with Tiote coming back (rusty) and S Taylor getting injured?

 

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Hopefully Guthrie will pick up where he left off and we should be okay.

 

Ben Arfa has got to play on the right instead of Obertan, but the squad is now being seen as too small and not good enough.

 

This is what happens when you sell your best players and don't build a team with the intention to improve as you go, and adopt a sell and replace with cheaper approach.

 

We all know the squad isnt great but at least we have a good sprinkling of crown jewels and a manager who is getting the best out of lesser lights.

 

The bottom line is as Alex says, we are half way through the season, 4 points of a Champions League spot, into the fourth round of the cup, just beaten Manchester United at home for the first time in 10 years and just witnessed one of the best goals ever scored at St James park.

 

Forgive some of us for staying upbeat.

[Guest alex]

Tbh, I don't have a lot of faith in the long-term squad / team building (mostly because of owner's track record and the fact hardly any of the squad have been here very long) but the squad is probably better than it was last year and the first XI definitely is.

[Happy Face 29]

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Not sure what you're basing that on exactly. We're still without Taylor and in additrion we've lost Tiote (if he was rusty before he was MOM material against Man U) and Ba (52% of our goals). How does that make us look much stronger?

[LeazesMag 0]

a couple of teams will catch NUFC before now and the end of the season. Not sure who, Stoke maybe, but we haven't got a cat in hells chance of qualifying for europe through the league position, especially when another player is sold and the money is pocketed.

 

Will Alan Pardew be tempted to join another club, that backs their manager, soon ?

Howay man. We've had a poor run and 7th isn't exactly nailed on (nor does it guarantee Europe at this stage) but to say we haven't got a cat in hell's chance on one hand then to struggle to name more than one team below us who might finish above us hardly makes sense. Btw, isn't Stoke Baggio's local team?

 

we haven't. Looking at our squad - and the transfer policy, lets face it most of us are wondering who will be next to leave and see the money disappear - and since August it's been obvious it isn't good enough to attain a high enough league position over 38 games to qualify for europe.

 

Some may have been fooled by a decent start, against generally the poorer teams, and a more athletic midfield [which I predicted would probably happen when Nolan was sold] but not everyone is so gullible.

 

The judgement may be harsh, but I'm sticking by it, as well as my long term view - as usual.

 

So which of the clubs below us at the moment do you think has a better squad than we do? Or a better starting 11.

 

7th won't do it, and only 1 club will mean we finish 8th, and at the moment Stoke are closest with half the season left. This is the best it gets under Mike Ashley, enjoy it while you can. Pardew will go when a big club that backs their managers comes in for him, and most of the best players will be sold as soon as we get acceptable offers. This is no way to build a big football club.

 

But which clubs have a better squad or starting 11 outside of the top 7 than we do?

 

remind me again of the subject of this thread, that you started when we were in the top 4 ?

[manc-mag 1]

Apart from needing either Man City or Liverpool to win the Carling cup to keep 7th spot open for European football, we also need 2 of the clubs in the top 7 (including ourselves) to make it to the final of the FA cup.

 

With Man City going out and one of Man Utd or Liverpool going out in the next round it could make it tough, other than that the draw isn't too bad.

 

 

Arsenal v Aston Villa

Blackpool v Sheff Wed

Brighton/Wrexham v Newcastle

Dag & Red/Millwall v Southampton

Derby v Stoke

Everton v Fulham

Hull v Crawley Town

Liverpool v Man Utd

Macclesfield/Bolton v Swansea

Milton Keynes Dons/QPR v Chelsea

Nottm Forest/Leicester v Swindon

Sheff Utd v Birmingham/Wolves

Stevenage v Notts County

Sunderland v Boro

Watford v Spurs

West Brom v Norwich

 

If we won the FA Cup I literally couldn't give the first fuck about finishing 7th btw.

 

Although Stevie has already given it the kiss of death by predicting a Toon win this year, we really do have to give it everything. City and either of Liverpool or Man U will be out by the end of the 4th round-that's two of the four most likely finalists already.

 

Mackems I can actually see going far in it with that little moaning twat in charge. He's adept at cup runs with bobbins clubs and their season has already been dead and buried so they've got that classic cup profile of a team that comes out of nowhere to win it.

[LeazesMag 0]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I think thats a tad pessimistic. I think its clear that the introduction Santon has made a massive difference to the overall balance of the team and our attacking options. As long as we stick with Ben Arfa or Rtaylor on the wing then I think that balance is kept.

 

Didnt November December also tie in with Tiote coming back (rusty) and S Taylor getting injured?

 

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Hopefully Guthrie will pick up where he left off and we should be okay.

 

Ben Arfa has got to play on the right instead of Obertan, but the squad is now being seen as too small and not good enough.

 

This is what happens when you sell your best players and don't build a team with the intention to improve as you go, and adopt a sell and replace with cheaper approach.

 

We all know the squad isnt great but at least we have a good sprinkling of crown jewels and a manager who is getting the best out of lesser lights.

 

The bottom line is as Alex says, we are half way through the season, 4 points of a Champions League spot, into the fourth round of the cup, just beaten Manchester United at home for the first time in 10 years and just witnessed one of the best goals ever scored at St James park.

 

Forgive some of us for staying upbeat.

 

ah, sorry. Will it be OK to boo in the highly unlikely event we finish 5th ?

[Happy Face 29]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

EDIT: sorry, not Liverpool of course.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Happy Face

[Baggio 0]

a couple of teams will catch NUFC before now and the end of the season. Not sure who, Stoke maybe, but we haven't got a cat in hells chance of qualifying for europe through the league position, especially when another player is sold and the money is pocketed.

 

Will Alan Pardew be tempted to join another club, that backs their manager, soon ?

Howay man. We've had a poor run and 7th isn't exactly nailed on (nor does it guarantee Europe at this stage) but to say we haven't got a cat in hell's chance on one hand then to struggle to name more than one team below us who might finish above us hardly makes sense. Btw, isn't Stoke Baggio's local team?

 

we haven't. Looking at our squad - and the transfer policy, lets face it most of us are wondering who will be next to leave and see the money disappear - and since August it's been obvious it isn't good enough to attain a high enough league position over 38 games to qualify for europe.

 

Some may have been fooled by a decent start, against generally the poorer teams, and a more athletic midfield [which I predicted would probably happen when Nolan was sold] but not everyone is so gullible.

 

The judgement may be harsh, but I'm sticking by it, as well as my long term view - as usual.

 

So which of the clubs below us at the moment do you think has a better squad than we do? Or a better starting 11.

 

7th won't do it, and only 1 club will mean we finish 8th, and at the moment Stoke are closest with half the season left. This is the best it gets under Mike Ashley, enjoy it while you can. Pardew will go when a big club that backs their managers comes in for him, and most of the best players will be sold as soon as we get acceptable offers. This is no way to build a big football club.

 

But which clubs have a better squad or starting 11 outside of the top 7 than we do?

 

remind me again of the subject of this thread, that you started when we were in the top 4 ?

 

The subject of the thread was our challenge of getting European football this season, it was also started sandwiched between some of our toughest fixtures of the season and I don't think anyone expected us to stay 4th.

 

So now who are these squads and starting 11 that are better than us outside of the top 7?

[Baggio 0]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

I don't expect to finish above Liverpool and at the time I fancied Everton to be the club to push us closest for 7th.

 

Like I said it comes down to the 3 games against Norwich, West Brom and Swansea, games we should have picked up more points than we did and the performances we put in deserved to pick up more points than we did but that's football, we've played worse against teams than we did against West Brom and Swansea this season and picked up more points in the process.

[Happy Face 29]

Our starting 11 is better than most....shame we only have 8 of them for the next month, and another few of them just a yellow or 2 short of a ban.

[manc-mag 1]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

4 of the top 6 in 9 games obviously isn't 'representative' and one of them we played twice so that's 5 of 9 fixtures. It's simple mathematics alone. You also can't have an 'easy' run to start with and then a 'representative' run. Really basic stuff this and showing a bit of an agenda bias if I'm being honest. That or stupidity and I don't think it's the latter.

 

We lost other games we might have expected to win and that's where it hurt, but that happens when you lose key personnel and an established core.

Edited January 10, 2012 by manc-mag

[Christmas Tree 4826]

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Not sure what you're basing that on exactly. We're still without Taylor and in additrion we've lost Tiote (if he was rusty before he was MOM material against Man U) and Ba (52% of our goals). How does that make us look much stronger?

 

Because I think one of our biggest problems this season has been the wings. Jonas has been very limited getting forward and Obertan.......

 

Now we have Santon and Jonas on the left and either Ben Arfa doing his stuff on the right or Rtaylor doing a Barton role out there.

 

I think that combination will create a lot more chances than we have seen so far this season. Of course they still need putting away.

 

Tiote is a big miss but if Guthrie can repeat his form before injury, I think we will be fine till he gets back. Against lesser teams, Guthries distribution might even be a bigger advantage.

[Christmas Tree 4826]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I think thats a tad pessimistic. I think its clear that the introduction Santon has made a massive difference to the overall balance of the team and our attacking options. As long as we stick with Ben Arfa or Rtaylor on the wing then I think that balance is kept.

 

Didnt November December also tie in with Tiote coming back (rusty) and S Taylor getting injured?

 

I think without getting too carried away we are looking much stronger than we were during Nov / Dec.

 

Hopefully Guthrie will pick up where he left off and we should be okay.

 

Ben Arfa has got to play on the right instead of Obertan, but the squad is now being seen as too small and not good enough.

 

This is what happens when you sell your best players and don't build a team with the intention to improve as you go, and adopt a sell and replace with cheaper approach.

 

We all know the squad isnt great but at least we have a good sprinkling of crown jewels and a manager who is getting the best out of lesser lights.

 

The bottom line is as Alex says, we are half way through the season, 4 points of a Champions League spot, into the fourth round of the cup, just beaten Manchester United at home for the first time in 10 years and just witnessed one of the best goals ever scored at St James park.

 

Forgive some of us for staying upbeat.

 

ah, sorry. Will it be OK to boo in the highly unlikely event we finish 5th ?

 

I have a feeling you will.

[Christmas Tree 4826]

Our starting 11 is better than most....shame we only have 8 of them for the next month, and another few of them just a yellow or 2 short of a ban.

 

I thought that was wiped clean in the new year???

[Guest alex]

Our starting 11 is better than most....shame we only have 8 of them for the next month, and another few of them just a yellow or 2 short of a ban.

 

I thought that was wiped clean in the new year???

Aye, after the 19th game (half-way through the season) I think.

[Happy Face 29]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

4 of the top 6 in 9 games obviously isn't 'representative' and one of them we played twice so that's 5 of 9 fixtures. It's simple mathematics alone. You also can't have an 'easy' run to start with and then a 'representative' run. Really basic stuff this and showing a bit of an agenda bias if I'm being honest. That or stupidity and I don't think it's the latter.

 

We lost other games we might have expected to win and that's where it hurt, but that happens when you lose key personnel and an established core.

 

People wouldn't have it that we had an easy start though...Spurs, Arsenal etc. meant saying the start was easy was to be unfair. So equally you can't have it both ways now and say it was easy and the hard run excuses the lack of points from the last 2 months.

 

Where I was willing to give due credit to the team for their results over their first 9 games irrespective of (what I thought was generally easier) opposition, I think it's perfectly reasonable to now say that 3rd bottom over 9 games is not good enough, irrespective of opposition.

 

I agree, those 9 games were harder than the first 9. But taking a third of the points total is a massive and worrying drop off.

[Happy Face 29]

Our starting 11 is better than most....shame we only have 8 of them for the next month, and another few of them just a yellow or 2 short of a ban.

 

I thought that was wiped clean in the new year???

 

Wahey. 6th it is

[manc-mag 1]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

4 of the top 6 in 9 games obviously isn't 'representative' and one of them we played twice so that's 5 of 9 fixtures. It's simple mathematics alone. You also can't have an 'easy' run to start with and then a 'representative' run. Really basic stuff this and showing a bit of an agenda bias if I'm being honest. That or stupidity and I don't think it's the latter.

 

We lost other games we might have expected to win and that's where it hurt, but that happens when you lose key personnel and an established core.

 

People wouldn't have it that we had an easy start though...Spurs, Arsenal etc. meant saying the start was easy was to be unfair. So equally you can't have it both ways now and say it was easy and the hard run excuses the lack of points from the last 2 months.

 

Where I was willing to give due credit to the team for their results over their first 9 games irrespective of (what I thought was generally easier) opposition, I think it's perfectly reasonable to now say that 3rd bottom over 9 games is not good enough, irrespective of opposition.

 

I agree, those 9 games were harder than the first 9. But taking a third of the points total is a massive and worrying drop off.

 

I'm not having it both ways tbh. I didn't buy into the 'easy start' stuff to begin with. My view was always that they were a favourable sequence of fixtures but that we would ordinarily fail to take full advantage of them in the circumstances. The credit due was in actually taking advantage of them. After that we had a hard run of fixtures and it was the consensus on here that we were going to struggle and would definitely drop points. We did.

 

My post was more aimed at putting to bed the complete misrepresentation that's rife on the board. ie we "had an easy start/people are just deluded etc etc" The reality is we had a favourable start that we took advantage of-we almost always never do that (shambolically, the unbeaten sequence was a Prem record for us iirc?) and then we all knew we would lose games going in to the next phase. People are massively realistic about the pros and cons on here imho. Wasn't intended as a personal rebuke by any means, but what you said in response to Baggio just wasn't worthy of your usual output from a critical point of view.

[Happy Face 29]

what you said in response to Baggio just wasn't worthy of your usual output from a critical point of view.

 

I think games against 18th, 15th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 6th, 4th, 2nd and 1st is pretty representative. A good breadth of the league there.

 

The discussion was November/December so we only played Man u once in that period.

[manc-mag 1]

what you said in response to Baggio just wasn't worthy of your usual output from a critical point of view.

 

I think games against 18th, 15th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 6th, 4th, 2nd and 1st is pretty representative. A good breadth of the league there.

 

The discussion was November/December so we only played Man u once in that period.

 

Well if that's the case then obviously the 'easy start' stuff gets put into perspective too as that becomes 'representative' also when you take half the seasons fixtures as the sample. Doesn't really bother me either way tbh, I just think most people have a very realistic critical view of things (with some disparity of emotional responses, given natural optimism/pessimism) but sadly the debate always seems to get hijacked by the very few lunatics at either end of the spectrum who insist on misrepresenting those very reasonable views.

[LeazesMag 0]

It wasn't just a December blip at all.

 

We took 8 points from 9 games in November & December. That's almost half of the season so far. Only Bolton and QPR had worse records over that 8 week period.

 

The Man U result was great fun, and the performance one of our best, but I'm not reading anything into that for our long term chances. That was the bright spot on our current downward trend, rather than the previous 2 months being a blip on our ongoing charge into Europe.

 

I didn't even see it as much of a blip to be honest as we knew going in to November we were in for a tough run of fixtures, you can include the away game at Stoke in that too if you like as I didn't expect to pick up 3 points there.

 

The blip seems to be losing away to Norwich, at home to West Brom and a draw with Swansea, the Swansea game we were dominant in and deserved to win and I didn't think we deserved to lose to West Brom either even though we were a little open in search of a winner but it happens, if we had picked up maximum points against them we would be sat in 4th on 40 points.

 

Other than those 3 we had Chelsea and Everton at home and Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool and Bolton away so as I said not an easy run.

 

But you expect to finish above Everton, Liverpool and Bolton. I agree it's not an easy run, but once you add Swansea, Nowich and WBA, then it's a pretty representative run of league games, not paricularly difficult.

 

4 of the top 6 in 9 games obviously isn't 'representative' and one of them we played twice so that's 5 of 9 fixtures. It's simple mathematics alone. You also can't have an 'easy' run to start with and then a 'representative' run. Really basic stuff this and showing a bit of an agenda bias if I'm being honest. That or stupidity and I don't think it's the latter.

 

We lost other games we might have expected to win and that's where it hurt, but that happens when you lose key personnel and an established core.

 

People wouldn't have it that we had an easy start though...Spurs, Arsenal etc. meant saying the start was easy was to be unfair. So equally you can't have it both ways now and say it was easy and the hard run excuses the lack of points from the last 2 months.

 

Where I was willing to give due credit to the team for their results over their first 9 games irrespective of (what I thought was generally easier) opposition, I think it's perfectly reasonable to now say that 3rd bottom over 9 games is not good enough, irrespective of opposition.

 

I agree, those 9 games were harder than the first 9. But taking a third of the points total is a massive and worrying drop off.

 

I'm not having it both ways tbh. I didn't buy into the 'easy start' stuff to begin with. My view was always that they were a favourable sequence of fixtures but that we would ordinarily fail to take full advantage of them in the circumstances. The credit due was in actually taking advantage of them. After that we had a hard run of fixtures and it was the consensus on here that we were going to struggle and would definitely drop points. We did.

 

My post was more aimed at putting to bed the complete misrepresentation that's rife on the board. ie we "had an easy start /people are just deluded etc etc" The reality is we had a favourable start that we took advantage of-we almost always never do that (shambolically, the unbeaten sequence was a Prem record for us iirc?) and then we all knew we would lose games going in to the next phase. People are massively realistic about the pros and cons on here imho. Wasn't intended as a personal rebuke by any means, but what you said in response to Baggio just wasn't worthy of your usual output from a critical point of view.

 

[LeazesMag 0]

what you said in response to Baggio just wasn't worthy of your usual output from a critical point of view.

 

I think games against 18th, 15th, 12th, 11th, 9th, 6th, 4th, 2nd and 1st is pretty representative. A good breadth of the league there.

 

The discussion was November/December so we only played Man u once in that period.

 

Well if that's the case then obviously the 'easy start' stuff gets put into perspective too as that becomes 'representative' also when you take half the seasons fixtures as the sample. Doesn't really bother me either way tbh, I just think most people have a very realistic critical view of things (with some disparity of emotional responses, given natural optimism/pessimism) but sadly the debate always seems to get hijacked by the very few lunatics at either end of the spectrum who insist on misrepresenting those very reasonable views.

 

are you actually saying anything at all here ?