***Official Mike Ashley Euro express thread***

[manc-mag 1]

That is a superb post in all seriousness TS.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Leazes, are you enjoying the fotball at the moment? We are flying high and we are hailed as a model for running a club UK-wide.

I dont necessarily agree with all of it and I still think Mike Ashley is a wanker for not buying defenders in january, but still.

 

Are you enjoying watching Ben Arfa play and St.James Park being on fire?

[Dr Gloom 22190]

The fact that we've had less money to spend has meant that we've spent it more wisely. I'm not suggesting that's a holistic blueprint for success, but it is true statement all the same. I'm pretty sure it must focus the mind and in that sense as long as it's driving better thinking about recruitment, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep each night that every last penny of the Carroll bonanza hasnt been re-absorbed by incoming players.

 

For me there are occasions where circumstances demand that you need to buy simply to fill a gap. I don't think we'll ever see MA do that now fwiw and we may suffer for that in isolation (the FA Cup exit being an example for me) but for the most part as long as we're not top of the money league we do need to research our players. Theres nothing wrong with that at all. Whatever claptrap Leazes is peddling this week, we've undoubtedly benefitted from taking an acutely strategic approach to the transfer market in recent years.

 

this "claptrap" is what you have described that I've told you for years, that you won't respond to and tell us exactly what has not happened that I said would happen

 

Whoa, can I get a rewind, dungeonmaster?

 

is that even english? what language is he talking?

[Brock Manson 0]

I'm glad I've made him switch from 'rubbish' to 'claptrap'.

[Christmas Tree 4858]

Do you never get tired of typing out the same thing over and over Leazes?

 

Or do you just have a cut and paste chart in the muslim shed?

 

'Hmmm, don't think I've used identical statement variant 12.2/A since yesterday morning, best pull her up.'

 

people just won't be told man.

 

What do you think of post nr 2663 by the way, if you want to discuss something sensibly ? Because whatever your "opinion" or any other bonehead poster, this is how football works and how successful clubs are successful, not by selling your best players and not backing your manager with the money.

 

Well I'll give you my opinion but it disagrees with yours.

 

I don't have entrenched views and am willing to modify my opinions as things go. I think we are looking to keep our best players but circumstance may not always allow that. Carroll was a freak event outside normal parameters and most of the other people leaving the reasons are known. Personally i AGREE with not spending it immediately and putting out the message that it is going into the club over a number of years. This tells other clubs we are not suckers and are not going to be fleeced in the way that we fleeced Liverpool. Smart business really. If I won the lottery there's no way I'd go public. Similarly we have a wage cap which also makes sense under FFP, players we cannot get to fit into that structure we have to encourage to stay by other means, by having a great manager or a progressive plan or great fans or superb infrastructure. We cannot pay the wages of the top players currently. Maybe we could again in the future but the only way to achieve that is growing the business legitimately.

 

I think Ashley made a total arse of his first few years, and still is in some ways. I agree Newcastle is a vehicle for SD, that's the world we live in. But given his desire to make SD a global brand (EU at least) it is inherent he wants his brand to be associated with a successful club. Delving into armchair psychology, an ego (megalomanic narcissist, I reckon) that gets that far in life wants it all. I don't subscribe to the notion he's happy with Newcastle to be also-rans.

 

He cannot bankroll the club in the way some wish as clubs have to wipe their own faces now, having said that we may have a better income if he had not made so many mistakes in the early years, but there is also a dreadful economic backdrop to all of this.

 

I think we're now in better shape than at any time under his tenure or for a few years before that. We are about where we ought to be, challenging for a top 6 spot. It's remarkable to me we've done that this season, but given the steady if rapid progress we have seen I can't just assume we'll go backwards now. We might sell one or two players, but they have proven to me they are prepared and able to adapt and evolve.

 

I think they are very tough negotiators, maybe the toughest in the league, and they won't be rushed. As Pardew said on Talksport the other day Ashley claims to be a 'tough seller'. If we do sell we get top dollar I have no reason to believe, given Mike's massive investment so far, he will suddenly start 'pocketing' cash.

 

I am prepared to judge them on their improving progress as football club owner/chairmen. I don't see any point at all in holding up a yardstick which is not relevant to these times and judging them by that.

 

Pardew seems to be generating a spirit and harmony amongst the team, in close association with the fans, that may help us hold onto players. His performance and growth as a manager is there for all to see. His media work is exemplary and if he's managing Mike and Dekka that well too, then fantastic.

 

It's a fact of life clubs occasionally sell their best players, to not accept that is deluded. I understand you have seen some great players moved on and replaced with shite, I don't think any sales recently can be compared with the loss of Gazza or Waddle or Beardsley. Carroll is not fit to wipe their boots. If a player is sold then let's see what they do as a response to that sale. On balance they've done pretty well over the last few windows, I'm disappointed we didn't get an LB or a CB but they play the long game it seems.

 

I'm not so naive as to expect a glorious summer or a similar placement next season, but I will see what they are up to and assess again. I have hope.

 

Probably the key difference between us is that I have hope they will improve and build through evolution (with good reason too lately), you on the other hand seem to allow no room for hope. They're not doing it your way so it's a disaster.

 

 

We are where we are, basically. I would love us to be bankrolled to the moon and have Messi gagging to stay here. Maybe with another 2 or 3 years of progress we can get to a position of attracting and keeping the very top stars.

 

Excellent post. Shame who it's wasted on.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Like washing your balls in the sink prior to a date and getting a kiss on the cheek after following her home.

[Gemmill 46175]

Following her home? Bit rapey, Norway.

[Guest CabayeAye]

Top post TS, 100% agree with what you've said.

[rogerbarton 24]

I'm shocked you'd even get a kiss on the cheek after following someone home.

 

Also, I hope there wasn't anything sharp in the sink

[McFaul 35]

As a bigger Ashley/Llambias hater than Leazes, with many reasoned points over the last 4 or 5 years, I can say for the reasons they pissed me off in the past I fucking hate them and I always will. I couldn't trust Llambias as far as I could fling him, "you don't know how nasty we can be", but had a good drunken chat about it all on Sunday after the match. The bottom line is, I'm proud of this team, no Newcastle team made me feel as good as I did on Sunday for at least 10 years, and as was pointed out apart from Krul all of this team was bought under Ashley.

 

I can't stress enough the dislike I have for Mike Ashley and Llambias, but I've come to a point now. I've enjoyed our relative successes over the last few years, but even when we beat Sunderland it was "aye he's still a cunt and he'll sell Nolan, Barton etc... in the summer". I maintain that the way the club has been transformed for the better has been more by luck than judgement, appointing Graham Carr has been UNBELIEVABLE, even Pardew's appointment taken on face value has been completely inspired, and where do I get to the point where I just stop slagging the cunts off, and let them get on with it, and slag them when we're on the decline again? Well I reached that point on Sunday, it's alright slagging them for selling Tiote, but the purchases we've made in the last 15 months, people who if you're honest few of us knew much about, well they've been inspired. He's not going to spend vast amounts, and this system of buying cheaply is working. Pardew said when he got the job, in 3-5 years they want us to be in a position where, we can generate enough money to keep our best players, and grow as a club. That 3-5 year period could well have been achieved in just 18 months.

 

European football gives us everything, status, stature, additional exposure domestically and more importantly internationally and of course financially Does it not feel better to be the club we are today, diligently spending the fans money (which we have invested not Ashley) LEVEL FUCKING POINTS WITH CHELSEA (?!) who have done £400m in 8 years. ELEVEN POINTS above Liverpool who have done £130m in, in 14 month?! Well I'm proud of the backroom staff, Carver, Stone, Pardew, and especially Graham Carr. It's working and there has to come a point where all of us, have to say, what are we fighting against here?? Unless we get a benefactor like the Arabs at City, or Abramovic, our status in this country will only ever be the level of Tottenham, and we're a lot closer to them than we were 2 years ago.

 

The club are ran now like Valencia and Deportivo were ran in the last 90's early 00's, they won 4 titles between them in that time, and this country has no Real Madrid or Barcelona. The time to pipe down and say well done has come. I even looked at Ashley in the Milburn his big bright blue shirt, he looked over to the Leazes, the Leazes End, not LM and he could see us baiting the dippers just after the second goal, and I thought I bet that big fat cunt feels a massive amount of vindication here like. The time to pipe down and forget about the politics off the pitch has finally arrived, I really don't think they're stupid enough to build something that is almost so good then completely dismantle it and start again. In closing I hate them as people, but it's idiotic to go on saying how shit they are when EVERYTHING they have done in the last 18 months has worked.

Edited April 3, 2012 by McFaul

[Christmas Tree 4858]

Great fucking post Stevie.

[Toonpack 10033]

As a bigger Ashley/Llambias hater than Leazes, with many reasoned points over the last 4 or 5 years, I can say for the reasons they pissed me off in the past I fucking hate them and I always will. I couldn't trust Llambias as far as I could fling him, "you don't know how nasty we can be", but had a good drunken chat about it all on Sunday after the match. The bottom line is, I'm proud of this team, no Newcastle team made me feel as good as I did on Sunday for at least 10 years, and as was pointed out apart from Krul all of this team was bought under Ashley.

 

I can't stress enough the dislike I have for Mike Ashley and Llambias, but I've come to a point now. I've enjoyed our relative successes over the last few years, but even when we beat Sunderland it was "aye he's still a cunt and he'll sell Nolan, Barton etc... in the summer". I maintain that the way the club has been transformed for the better has been more by luck than judgement, appointing Graham Carr has been UNBELIEVABLE, even Pardew's appointment taken on face value has been completely inspired, and where do I get to the point where I just stop slagging the cunts off, and let them get on with it, and slag them when we're on the decline again? Well I reached that point on Sunday, it's alright slagging them for selling Tiote, but the purchases we've made in the last 15 months, people who if you're honest few of us knew much about, well they've been inspired. He's not going to spend vast amounts, and this system of buying cheaply is working. Pardew said when he got the job, in 3-5 years they want us to be in a position where, we can generate enough money to keep our best players, and grow as a club. That 3-5 year period could well have been achieved in just 18 months.

 

European football gives us everything, status, stature, additional exposure domestically and more importantly internationally and of course financially Does it not feel better to be the club we are today, diligently spending the fans money (which we have invested not Ashley) LEVEL FUCKING POINTS WITH CHELSEA (?!) who have done £400m in 8 years. ELEVEN POINTS above Liverpool who have done £130m in, in 14 month?! Well I'm proud of the backroom staff, Carver, Stone, Pardew, and especially Graham Carr. It's working and there has to come a point where all of us, have to say, what are we fighting against here?? Unless we get a benefactor like the Arabs at City, or Abramovic, our status in this country will only ever be the level of Tottenham, and we're a lot closer to them than we were 2 years ago.

 

The club are ran now like Valencia and Deportivo were ran in the last 90's early 00's, they won 4 titles between them in that time, and this country has no Real Madrid or Barcelona. The time to pipe down and say well done has come. I even looked at Ashley in the Milburn his big bright blue shirt, he looked over to the Leazes, the Leazes End, not LM and he could see us baiting the dippers just after the second goal, and I thought I bet that big fat cunt feels a massive amount of vindication here like. The time to pipe down and forget about the politics off the pitch has finally arrived, I really don't think they're stupid enough to build something that is almost so good then completely dismantle it and start again. In closing I hate them as people, but it's idiotic to go on saying how shit they are when EVERYTHING they have done in the last 18 months has worked.

 

Well said Stevie

[rogerbarton 24]

Very well reasoned post, Mcfaul. I'm in your camp - I'll never ever forgive them for the Kevin Keegan debacle and the manner in which we got relegated. They treated another legend, Alan Shearer, appallingly and then they screwed over a true gentleman who the fans adored in Chris Hughton. None of that is forgivable in my eyes but the astuteness that the staff at the club are showing now is going some way to softening my feelings towards the upper echelons. And while I see the likes of Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Cabaye and Gutierrez linking up in the final third, playing some of the most beautiful football at Newcastle in years, and thoroughly likeable chaps at that, I will be happy.

[Brock Manson 0]

Stevie that's spot on.

 

Aye the owners have been utterly despicable at times but right now we're having a terrific season and have signed some fantastic players whilst the club is on a stable financial footing. We're up there with teams who have adopted the money spunking strategy and that's testament to how well the team has been assembled. No more mercenaries - just players who want to play in the premier league and for a club like Newcastle.

 

Keep the likes of Ben Arfa and Cabeye around and it can only enhance our european pedigree in terms of people wanting to join us.

[McFaul 35]

Very well reasoned post, Mcfaul. I'm in your camp - I'll never ever forgive them for the Kevin Keegan debacle and the manner in which we got relegated. They treated another legend, Alan Shearer, appallingly and then they screwed over a true gentleman who the fans adored in Chris Hughton. None of that is forgivable in my eyes but the astuteness that the staff at the club are showing now is going some way to softening my feelings towards the upper echelons. And while I see the likes of Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Cabaye and Gutierrez linking up in the final third, playing some of the most beautiful football at Newcastle in years, and thoroughly likeable chaps at that, I will be happy.

Aye, I think in the past, it was just look we've got the money, they're class get them in. However I think the personalities of the players we were signing weren't seen as important, and neither was the reasons why the players were signing. We should never have signed Michael Owen, and the policy of these now I can see what it is, get players who are proud to play for this club for reasons other than their bank balance, and they're all good lads. There's none of them I genuinely don't like, years since I've been able to say that about them.

 

We're probably the 6th or 7th club in this country in stature again, we were in ruins 3 years ago, utter ruins. Fulham were ten times the club we were, but now, genuinely we're away from the likes of Everton even and the mackems who have spent a lot more. We're 6th or 7th, and when you think Man City and Chelsea have been artificially developed and financed, I've always said 4th or 5th is about our level and I'm sure the yids would think the same about their club. We're getting there. Ashley wants to be seen as a success in all aspects of his life, and he knows what he has done has worked, he knows a little more on the field success will mean a lot more financial success of the business, which clearly is his big motivation in life. You can't have one without the other, and I won't be slagging them off unless they sell 3 or 4 of our bigger players without replacing them, but even Tiote's is hinting he'd like to say, they're not on fortunes and they're all HAPPY. In the past they were on FORTUNES and they were ARSEHOLES.

[NJS 4411]

Even though I always thought the previous owners were cunts, I was happy to benefit from their actions (even though I still think it was two good managers rather than underlying competence).

 

Like Stevie I'm starting to feel the same way about this lot. I think his point about it more being by luck than judgement is true but I also think Toonpack's point about people like Ashley never settling for failure is a factor as well.

 

In 2012 I think our current position, competing with those above us, Liverpool, the mackems and Everton is about "right" given the various financial factors. The best way forward is steady progress under good management. Within that we'll have good seasons where we'll finish top 4 and bad ones where we'll finish ninth or tenth.

 

Unless you do glory hunt then its just about what most fans want - pride in the team,a sniff of the cups, maybe a trip to Europe and a few games a year that make you think you're top of the world.

 

It might be "unambitious" to an extent but I think moreover its realistic.

 

[manc-mag 1]

Think that sums up where we are superbly Stevie. In terms of the football, the business, the personalities and the emotion. The conflict between various elements of each (both past and ongoing) and what we dare hope for for the future.

 

The key point you touched on for me is that the team make you proud of them. I dont mean proud to be a fan of the club because that's just an intrinsic pride which never alters, whoevers names are on the team sheet, but a pride in those specific players pulling on the shirt for us. We're recruiting talent, and crucially theyre arriving here with the attitude that the football comes first. It's something this club has needed to get right for a long time...as you say, probably for a decade at least, because it's been getting it continually wrong on that score whatever amounts of money have been swilling about the place. I got slated for saying it at the time, and I'm not putting it forward now as proof conclusive that it was what did it, but I thought it was right for us that we went down when we did. It was a flabby organisation with a firmly entrenched gravy train attitude from top to bottom. It's absolutely right that we could have languished in the Championship and there was always that risk, but for me it needed that sort of clean slate and sharp shock to the system to refocus what NUFC as an employer demanded of it's servants.

 

We're not the top of the money league anymore so we need our resources to go further. We probably got the least bang for our buck of all of the big spending clubs for about 70% of our Prem career prior to relegation imho. That's said with utter respect to the two great periods under Keegan and Robson because they are a massive part of the modern history of the club. But we do need to find a new way now because so much about English football has changed. This is the right start for me-you begin with the basic rudiments and that means finding players who want to play for their place in your team. Want it more than the opponents. It's only a start and its no guarantee of success, but it is the right start.

Edited April 3, 2012 by manc-mag

[McFaul 35]

The best way forward is steady progress under good management. Within that we'll have good seasons where we'll finish top 4 and bad ones where we'll finish ninth or tenth.

That's spot on. That would've been the case in the 90's too where for a period without any doubt we were the number 2 club, all self-financed as well. Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham in terms of generating money, were either generally level with us or well behind us, which Tottenham were until 2007. If Hall and FFS bought the club now, they'd find the competition a lot tougher in terms of blowing everyone else out of the water financially. We did that purely because Fletcher made us a money making machine, in terms of merchandise and sponsorship only Man Utd were out-doing us. In today's world the clubs who were slightly behind us then, have grown in size massively, and I agree 4th-10th is where we should expect to be, it's where we are, and as my first post today said, you can't keep saying they're cunts when they've finally began to produce a team this club should have, and also matching where we SHOULD be as a football club in the league table long term.

[McFaul 35]

Think that sums up where we are superbly Stevie. In terms of the football, the business, the personalities and the emotion. The conflict between various elements of each (both past and ongoing) and what we dare hope for for the future.

 

The key point you touched on for me is that the team make you proud of them. I dont mean proud to be a fan of the club because that's just an intrinsic pride which never alters, whoevers names are on the team sheet, but a pride in those specific players pulling on the shirt for us. We're recruiting talent, and crucially theyre arriving here with the attitude that the football comes first. It's something this club has needed to get right for a long time...as you say, probably for a decade at least, because it's been getting it continually wrong on that score whatever amounts of money have been swilling about the place. I got slated for saying it at the time, and I'm not putting it forward now as proof conclusive that it was what did it, but I thought it was right for us that we went down when we did. It was a flabby organisation with a firmly entrenched gravy train attitude from top to bottom. It's absolutely right that we could have languished in the Championship and there was always that risk, but for me it needed that sort of clean slate and sharp shock to the system to refocus what NUFC as an employer demanded of it's servants.

 

We're not the top of the money league anymore so we need our resources to go further. We probably got the least bang for our buck of all of the big spending clubs for about 70% of our Prem career prior to relegation imho. That's said with utter respect to the two great periods under Keegan and Robson because they are a massive part of the modern history of the club. But we do need to find a new way now because so much about English football has changed. This is the right start for me-you begin with the basic rudiments and that means finding players who want to play for their place in your team. Want it more than the opponents. It's only a start and its no guarantee of success, but it is the right start.

The post is spot on. The bit in bold sums it all up, if you remember when we were bairns Charlie and the Chocolate Factory used to be on at Christmas, one of the characters was a fat spoilt kid called Augustus Gloop, and if you remember the film, what happened to him happened to us. We'd become the Augustus Gloop of football clubs.

 

Aye it's finding the players. Graham Carr's piece today is great. It's so simple. He fucks off to Holland, France or Germany, watches 3 games in a weekend and comes home. That is it. You get the impression the fucking agents were our scouts in the past at times.

 

 

“I saw Papiss Cisse play for Metz when he first came over from Senegal.

“Metz have sort of a school, and they take quite a lot of Senegalese players, but he didn’t have a passport at the time. I was working for Manchester City at the time, but he didn’t have a passport to come into the UK. So that ruled him out.”

Carr kept a watching brief on Cisse’s progress, first at Metz and then Freiburg, as part of the dozens of matches he watches on the continent each month.

That hard work and commitment has helped United land a number of players for cut-price fees, though Carr was quick to give credit to boss Alan Pardew, managing director Derek Llambias and secretary Lee Charnley for completing the deals.

He added: “Cisse scored 20-odd goals two years ago in the Bundesliga. He was liked by Bayern Munich, They wanted £15m when we first enquired, and then it was 12, and we actually got him for eight in the last window which we thought was value for money.

“At Newcastle, we haven’t been able to pay the big fees, so we’ve gone for what you might call realistic targets.

“But I just go and watch matches. I go and pick up three matches in Holland, three in France over the weekend, or midweek, or in Germany, and I get a list of names together, sit down with the manager, Derek Llambias and Lee Charnley and our staff and we discuss them.

“Then, if we think we want to sign one, then Lee Charnley goes and gets a price for him.

“I’ve been doing the job for 14 years. I was at Tottenham for five years, chief scout at Manchester City for seven, and I’ve been mostly in Europe as well, so I’ve been been “on the job” for quite a long time.

“So it’s just those players that came along. Cheik Tiote was available at the right price, at the right time. Hatem Ben Arfa had played in the national side for France, we got him on loan. Then we’ve had Cabaye and Cisse come in, and Sylvain Marveaux who hasn’t played yet.

“I think Alan Pardew’s done a great job because he’s actually organised the side into a winning side.

“Tiote has improved. Hatem Ben Arfa, he was a little bit temperamental in France, but I think Pardew’s putting an arm around him now and has got him playing to his true capabilities.

“Yohan Cabaye had a get-out clause in his contract, which was a major signing for us. He was valued at £10m, but we found out he had a clause for £4.5m, so that really gave us the green light to go out and sign him and the club worked hard, actually, to get him.

“The club have got to take a lot of credit. Derek Llambias, who works hard, Mike Ashley – they’ve put the money there, they’ve took the necessary stick from the supporters.

“On the outside looking in, I was a bit, you know, what’s happened at Newcastle in the past. But since I’ve been in there working for them, I can’t speak too highly of them.”

Edited April 3, 2012 by McFaul

[Lake Bells tits 1]

It is very simple, but then again - when the best people do it seems alot simpler than it really is. It requires a keen eye to identify targets that not only do well in their leagues, but also predict who will make the transition to the premier league without hickups.

 

You need the right man watching for targets, one who knows quality when he sees it regardless of the differences between the leagues.

[BigWalrus 0]

It is very simple, but then again - when the best people do it seems alot simpler than it really is. It requires a keen eye to identify targets that not only do well in their leagues, but also predict who will make the transition to the premier league without hickups.

 

You need the right man watching for targets, one who knows quality when he sees it regardless of the differences between the leagues.

 

Doesn't sound simple to me...

[Monroe Transfer 0]

I'm worried about Carr being headhunted by another club actually.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

It is very simple, but then again - when the best people do it seems alot simpler than it really is. It requires a keen eye to identify targets that not only do well in their leagues, but also predict who will make the transition to the premier league without hickups.

 

You need the right man watching for targets, one who knows quality when he sees it regardless of the differences between the leagues.

 

Doesn't sound simple to me...

 

That was kind of my point

[Lake Bells tits 1]

I'm worried about Carr being headhunted by another club actually.

 

In this age-obsessed fotballing era surely most clubs must think he has already peaked..

[Monroe Transfer 0]

no Newcastle team made me feel as good as I did on Sunday for at least 10 years

 

Is that not just because you hate Liverpool so much and enjoyed watching them get outclassed?