***Official Mike Ashley Euro express thread***

[spongebob toonpants 3997]

Nothing to know that's actually the whole story

 

ok, secret squirrel

[NJS 4389]

A couple of squad players ? What glue are you sniffing ? Would we not be better if Nolan, Barton and Enrique [and others sold in the last 3 years or so] were all still here ?

 

Players of that quality Yes - but football isn't as simple as that. I bought into the team spirit thing about Nolan and Barton which made me think it was poor selling them but that's been proved to be a load of shite. You keep saying that finances are meaningless (or suggest that) but if you really think it's a good idea to give a 30 year old a 5 year 55k pw contract then I think you're daft. Similarly tolerating a shit-stirrer just because hie's a good player is something no club should put up with - See Man Utd and up to now Man City (Tevez) as good examples of that.

 

In Enrique's case these things happen - players decide the grass is greener but if they don't want to play for you then I say they can fuck off and die. Of course you'll say that no player should fancy liverpool more than us which I agree with in principle but in reality they always have and always will have more appeal to foreigners - the history is just too much.

 

I'd also argue on the "backing the manager" point that Pardew now has his number one striking target at the club - it's shit that it took a year but suggesting he's had no backing is daft.

[NJS 4389]

^ I should add that he hasn't has enough backing - but it's the black and white "he's had none" that irks.

[LeazesMag 0]

A couple of squad players ? What glue are you sniffing ? Would we not be better if Nolan, Barton and Enrique [and others sold in the last 3 years or so] were all still here ?

 

Players of that quality Yes - but football isn't as simple as that. I bought into the team spirit thing about Nolan and Barton which made me think it was poor selling them but that's been proved to be a load of shite. You keep saying that finances are meaningless (or suggest that) but if you really think it's a good idea to give a 30 year old a 5 year 55k pw contract then I think you're daft. Similarly tolerating a shit-stirrer just because hie's a good player is something no club should put up with - See Man Utd and up to now Man City (Tevez) as good examples of that.

 

In Enrique's case these things happen - players decide the grass is greener but if they don't want to play for you then I say they can fuck off and die. Of course you'll say that no player should fancy liverpool more than us which I agree with in principle but in reality they always have and always will have more appeal to foreigners - the history is just too much.

 

I'd also argue on the "backing the manager" point that Pardew now has his number one striking target at the club - it's shit that it took a year but suggesting he's had no backing is daft.

 

you are unbelievably naive, like most of the skunkers posters too, as shown by this post.

 

Every single manager, and player, in the game, will tell you that team spirit and leadership is essential to success in football. Alex Ferguson said it recently on TV, I think it was after the Chelsea game where they came back to draw after being 3-0 down. Ironically, Alex Ferguson also has only achieved what he has at ManU because he was backed by his directors, along with every other successful club in the history of the game. They were backed by their directors, and on the odd occasion that their best players leave the club they have been continued to be backed to improve the team in entirety, without money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

You won't find a post from me anywhere saying its a good idea to give a 30 year old a 5 year contract at 55k a week, so stop making things up, and I thought Fish was perusing the forum to clamp down on these sort of false accusations You will find a post or two saying there was no need to take such a decision when Nolan had 2 years of his contract left, and I stand by that, so where is the money, bearing in mind a big club like NUFC ought to be able to buy players like Cabaye within its normal operating budget or at least like all the other ambitious clubs who don't tell their supporters they need to sell to buy ?

 

There was also no reason to give Barton away for free, we would be better off if Barton was also still at the club.

 

I really don't want to go down this road, but it never ceases to amaze me, the amount of people who have such an irrational hatred of the directors who have gave us the best period by a million miles in over 50 years, have their methods mocked by so many so called supporters, who are clinging to the belief that they will still be proved right in their assertions that "anybody would do better than this". I won't expand further on the meaning of "this", its been done hundreds of times, here, on skunkers, and on Newcastle Online, but despite theirs and yours "opinions" the current owner has got nowhere near and the reason for that is quite simply that his strategy and ambitions are inferior.

 

Your point about Enrique is an absolute no brainer, and shows that anybody who don't understand why he left, is a joke. He left Newcastle because he knows the club does not have the ambitions to make it worthwhile for him to stay, the same reason that players such as Shay Given, James Milner, Sebastian Bassong, Andy Carroll and Charles N'Zogbia left, and players in the past such as Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley. And the sad thing is, more will follow, yet fools will continue to make excuses for it, just like they did when Gazza, Waddle and Beardsley were sold too.

 

The club has gone backwards in the last 4 years, in ambitions and on the financial front as explained in other threads, and will continue to do so unless the owner does a dramatic u-turn.

 

I'm not explaining this to you again.

Edited February 23, 2012 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

^ I should add that he hasn't has enough backing - but it's the black and white "he's had none" that irks.

 

in keeping with the thread subject, rather than derail it by talking about idealistic financial nonsense, if NUFC qualify for the Europa Cup this season, they will NOT attempt to build on it and go higher. Expect sales and cheap replacements instead, and more money witheld from the manager like the Carroll money, this is what 2nd rate selling clubs do, not big clubs with big support who should be aiming for the real european competition slots.

Edited February 23, 2012 by LeazesMag

[JaMoUsE 0]

LM, if you think N'Zogbia left and went to Wigan cos the club didn't match his ambitions you are totally insane.

[BestBaNone 0]

^ I should add that he hasn't has enough backing - but it's the black and white "he's had none" that irks.

 

in keeping with the thread subject, rather than derail it by talking about idealistic financial nonsense, if NUFC qualify for the Europa Cup this season, they will NOT attempt to build on it and go higher. Expect sales and cheap replacements instead, and more money witheld from the manager like the Carroll money, this is what 2nd rate selling clubs do, not big clubs with big support who should be aiming for the real european competition slots.

 

A prediction/opinion. Poor form for somebody that prides himself in dealing with facts.

[dbsweeney 0]

Zoggy left for Wigan because of Kinnear. Kinnear was chosen by Ashley and Llambias. Would you say that the choice of Kinnear showed ambition?

 

JK was chosen because the job at SJP seemed caustic at the time and no-one else was willing to do it (or the club wasn't willing to pay those who were willing—speculation on my part). Added to the fact that MA and DL knew absolutely nothing about running a football club and so knew no better than to choose someone who'd been out of the game for many years.

[jaythesouthernmag 0]

He says he doesn't approve of giving a 30 year old a five year deal on £55k a week but that's what it would have taken to keep Nolan, yet he slates the sale,how does that work?

[JawD 99]

I was pissed when Nolan and Barton left, but its difficult not knowing all the facts behind the moves. That said, if you consider Tiote and Cabaye their replacement then we are stronger for it. However, to back LM's point, we could have done with keeping Barton as well as having these two as he had started putting in a hell of a shift in RM and would have given us a good option there when we have struggled at times.

 

Barton leaving was fuck all to do with ambition though, nor was Nolan. Barton simply fell out with the board. slated them in public and was driven out of the club for it.

[ewerk 30682]

I'm not explaining this to you again.

 

Thank fuck for that.

[McFaul 35]

You won't find a post from me anywhere saying its a good idea to give a 30 year old a 5 year contract at 55k a week, so stop making things up, and I thought Fish was perusing the forum to clamp down on these sort of false accusations You will find a post or two saying there was no need to take such a decision when Nolan had 2 years of his contract left, and I stand by that, so where is the money, bearing in mind a big club like NUFC ought to be able to buy players like Cabaye within its normal operating budget or at least like all the other ambitious clubs who don't tell their supporters they need to sell to buy ?

 

I was up in arms at the Nolan sale, but from a less frenzied position now, I think it was the right thing to do. He's slow and immobile now so what's he going to be like in 5 years time. I don't agree with letting him run down his 2 year deal neither, £5m for a man as unathletic as Nolan was tremendous business, particularly when we got a French international worth treble that for the same price more or less. If we'd have let him while down his 2 year deal and knocking back the money we'd be basically paying £5m for a slow midfielder for just two seasons. That said I agree with everything else you've put.

[ChezGiven 0]

IMO Pardew wanted rid of both Nolan and Barton, stamp his authority on his team, allow other better player to be the creative fulcrum of the side and play the 442 he loves which Nolan was not beat suited for. When you consider the wages Nolan wants, it's easy to see the club's management lines up on that one. If Obertan was even just a half decent footballer, Barton's lack of pace and disruptive influence leads to the same conclusion. Obviously Pardew thought the Obertan move was correct and it would change the dynamic of the side so probably was comfortable letting him go. In retrospect he may look at it differently but there's no point in using retrospect when trying to understand the decision process last summer.

[McFaul 35]

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind from a footballing perspective he didn't want to lose Barton. Nolan? Possibly but I doubt it was a decision that was his anyway.

[ewerk 30682]

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind from a footballing perspective he didn't want to lose Barton. Nolan? Possibly but I doubt it was a decision that was his anyway.

 

Aye, Pardew played him in the first couple of games and made it clear that he had no problem with Barton.

[LeazesMag 0]

IMO Pardew wanted rid of both Nolan and Barton, stamp his authority on his team, allow other better player to be the creative fulcrum of the side and play the 442 he loves which Nolan was not beat suited for. When you consider the wages Nolan wants, it's easy to see the club's management lines up on that one. If Obertan was even just a half decent footballer, Barton's lack of pace and disruptive influence leads to the same conclusion. Obviously Pardew thought the Obertan move was correct and it would change the dynamic of the side so probably was comfortable letting him go. In retrospect he may look at it differently but there's no point in using retrospect when trying to understand the decision process last summer.

 

Nolan may be correct, but Barton ? I don't think so. Just opinion, but however.......

 

If these decisions are made for footballing reasons, not financial and aimed at cheapness, then fair enough. NUFC are not a small 2nd rate club. If they want to fulfill their potential, they have to attempt to live in the same league as the other big boys.

 

Obertan so far looks to be a poor signing, fair enough again, everybody makes a poor signing, nobody gets it right every time, but its a fact that if you buy proven quality and pay the money sometimes these poor signings are decreased, as in any walk of life you get what you pay for.

 

To answer some of the replies last night etc, again, if Newcastle United buy 2 or 3 players that are bought for playing reasons and in the managers opinion will go straight into the first team [taking into account another may flop, which happens, as I've said], and don't get the money together by selling Krul, Colo, Ba, Steven Taylor, Jonas, Cabaye or Tiote ie they are building on their best players and spending the rest of the Carroll money to attempt to do just that then I will come on here and applaud Mike Ashley and say that I hope this means he has finally understood how to build a successful football team. This is how it should be done, and THIS is how the likes of Spurs etc have behaved for the last 5-6 years, not the bollocks put out by others who claim otherwise.

 

This is how to run a big football club.

 

I have no other agenda, I never have. I want the club run like an ambitious football club befitting a club our size. Stevie said a few weeks ago that we used to spend every transfer window wondering which of the best players we would sign from other premiership clubs that are inferior to us, now we are wondering which of our best players are going to be sold. I really couldn't put it better, and its still amazing that people do not see this.

 

We will see. I don't think he will do what he should, but I hope that I am wrong and he does.

[Baggio 0]

Barton's a strange situation, on the one hand Pardew made it clear that he wanted to keep him but then when he was slagging off Ashley when we were doing well Pard's came out with a comment about him being positive in the dressing room 80% of the time which suggests he could be a pain to manage

 

I'm surprised at how fondly he's looked apon by some of our fans though considering we got 5 good months out of him in 4 years while criticising our attitudes and a stint in prison, I think it was the Blackburn game under Allardyce where he was awful but couldn't be subbed as forhe would have got so much grief.

 

I agree with Chez that they will look to strengthen wide right again in the summer, either Hoilett or Barnetta would be my guess.

[Happy Face 29]

What a thread by the way. Every NUFC topic going back 15 years encompassed in one place, focused on how it effects this seasons drive for Europe.

[LeazesMag 0]

You won't find a post from me anywhere saying its a good idea to give a 30 year old a 5 year contract at 55k a week, so stop making things up, and I thought Fish was perusing the forum to clamp down on these sort of false accusations You will find a post or two saying there was no need to take such a decision when Nolan had 2 years of his contract left, and I stand by that, so where is the money, bearing in mind a big club like NUFC ought to be able to buy players like Cabaye within its normal operating budget or at least like all the other ambitious clubs who don't tell their supporters they need to sell to buy ?

 

I was up in arms at the Nolan sale, but from a less frenzied position now, I think it was the right thing to do. He's slow and immobile now so what's he going to be like in 5 years time. I don't agree with letting him run down his 2 year deal neither, £5m for a man as unathletic as Nolan was tremendous business, particularly when we got a French international worth treble that for the same price more or less. If we'd have let him while down his 2 year deal and knocking back the money we'd be basically paying £5m for a slow midfielder for just two seasons. That said I agree with everything else you've put.

 

I made a post about a year or so ago [where are they, can we get them ?] saying that I thought Pardew would put together a more mobile and pacy team and Nolan could be a casualty of that, and also that people would be taken in by it because it would be pleasing on the eye. Results have gone better than we all expected, but that doesn't change the fact that we would still have been better for having Nolan in the dressing room and as part of the squad, he would certainly have played some games bearing in mind the amount of injuries etc we have had, but this is what having a squad is all about. He had 2 years left on his contract, I can accept the offer was a good one, and they wanted to take it while it was there, but I take the view that as CAbaye would have been a target anyway, for footballing reasons to add to and improve the team, then Nolan has not been replaced in the squad.

 

We are touching here on the difference between selling and replacing, rather than building and improving. Its not even really a subtle difference, it's obvious but people just won't accept it even if they can see it.

 

I've just said in my previous post what I hope the club does this summer, irrespective of if we qualify for the Europa Cup, which changes nothing at all. It is what the club should do.

[Baggio 0]

Nolan did say in the middle of last season that he could see the way the club was heading that he could see the day coming where he wouldn't be needed anymore and he wouldn't want to stay to be a bit part player, I doubt he thought it would all happen this soon though

 

Ultimately it comes down to us not being in a position where we can afford players on £50k per week warming the bench when everyone is fit.

[LeazesMag 0]

Nolan did say in the middle of last season that he could see the way the club was heading that he could see the day coming where he wouldn't be needed anymore and he wouldn't want to stay to be a bit part player, I doubt he thought it would all happen this soon though

 

Ultimately it comes down to us not being in a position where we can afford players on £50k per week warming the bench when everyone is fit.

 

say goodbye to challenging the likes of Spurs and Liverpool then, who most certainly will do that.

[McFaul 35]

Nolan did say in the middle of last season that he could see the way the club was heading that he could see the day coming where he wouldn't be needed anymore and he wouldn't want to stay to be a bit part player, I doubt he thought it would all happen this soon though

 

Ultimately it comes down to us not being in a position where we can afford players on £50k per week warming the bench when everyone is fit.

 

say goodbye to challenging the likes of Spurs and Liverpool then, who most certainly will do that.

Aye even Bassong was on 50k at the yids.

[Baggio 0]

How do Spurs keep their wage bill so low if the likes of Bassong are on £50k?

 

The only real success we've had in the best part of 15 years was under Robson and I can't think of many benchsquad players that would have earned big money, the squad was made up of promising youngsters or dependable cheap cover.

[Happy Face 29]

How do Spurs keep their wage bill so low if the likes of Bassong are on £50k? The only real success we've had in the best part of 15 years was under Robson and I can't think of many benchsquad players that would have earned big money, the squad was made up of promising youngsters or dependable cheap cover.

 

Is it low?

 

£91.1m is higher than we've ever paid i think...£40m more than our last reported wage bill following the cuts.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oNlATJE_aFg/Tuhq9uXZnJI/AAAAAAAAEvc/cgiRomCyc3U/s400/17%2BTottenham%2BWages%2Bto%2BTurnover.jpg

 

£70k cap is lower than other clubs, but more than our £50k.

[Baggio 0]

How do Spurs keep their wage bill so low if the likes of Bassong are on £50k? The only real success we've had in the best part of 15 years was under Robson and I can't think of many benchsquad players that would have earned big money, the squad was made up of promising youngsters or dependable cheap cover.

 

Is it low?

 

£91.1m is higher than we've ever paid i think...£40m more than our last reported wage bill following the cuts.

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oNlATJE_aFg/Tuhq9uXZnJI/AAAAAAAAEvc/cgiRomCyc3U/s400/17%2BTottenham%2BWages%2Bto%2BTurnover.jpg

 

£70k cap is lower than other clubs, but more than our £50k.

 

Thinking about it I remember reading that they have high incentive based contracts, which would explain why their wage bill jumped nearly £25 million the year they played champions league.