Happy Face 29 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How do Arsenal so comprehensively trounce Man U on turnover? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Nar it's worth UP TO £20m over two seasons. Which suggests to me what we'll get is determined by performance. The £20m figure is probably based on us being in the Champions League I'd guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) How do Arsenal so comprehensively trounce Man U on turnover? They sold a lot of flats. Edited February 21, 2012 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 A monkey would know what I'm saying. I'm responding to your point that turnover in the relegation season is the same as it was last season. The reason for that is TV revenues for 10/11, were vastly superior to 08/09, every other aspect and facet of the club is generating less income by far. It's not a trend across all clubs neither, prove it is. Newcastle have stagnated financially more than any other club in English football in terms of income, it's not even something you can argue over. TV income up 10m, commercial income down 10m, Virgin deal just brought in 10m so we should be back in the mid-20s after this deal, the max seen in our accounts is 27m. The trend is there for any club not in the CL but the ramble has a great article on stagnating commercial income at Arsenal. Despite these massive increases, Liverpool's revenue has not grown overal for the last 3 accounts, its stuck at 185m. So if TV is going up, and revenue stays the same, it means other income is falling. All on the Ramble for the proof. Some clubs like sunderland have done ok, keeping a commercial income of around 10-12m, we dipped to 15m in the relegation season and with better figure this year, plus the virgin deal will be back in the 20s, near our maximum figure. Of coursre the club went backwards but a simple analysis of current activity and figures shows we will approach the highest we've ever earned. Its the direction of these figures over time from the lowest point that counts now. The fact they decreased to 54m 2 seasons ago was a disaster, how the club is positioned financially since then has been ok, not amazing but its moving in the right direction. Club revenues are increasing and will increase again this year, whether we qualify for Europe or not. Simply saying that because the club's finances were impacted because of relegation and are not where they should be does not equal mis-management of the finances. I presume you are trying to criticise the financial management because the current football management is satisfactory? Things change, new trends emerge and if you look at how things are moving, no one with an ounce of experience in finance would say things were peforming badly on that front. Neither on the football front either. Just admit you're wrong and we'll move on. I'm not wrong on any point I've made, nice of you to ignore the ones I corrected you on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 All Man City will do to get around any problems is receive increased money from their sponsors/owners to get round the problem. It stinks. It stinks that any rich fucka could just think right I've got £20b in the bank, I'm bored, I'll buy some horses see if they're any good but I'll get bored of them too. I know I like the name Doncaster Rovers, why not try and make them Champions of Europe. That's basically what happened with Man City. At the very best they were the 11th or 12th biggest club in England before all of this and look at them now. Fucking stinks. That's being looked at. Just saying well the Etihad sponsorship is xx million and adding it casually to turnover won't wash. I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 How do Arsenal so comprehensively trounce Man U on turnover? They sold a lot of flats. HIghbury flats. Chelsea tried to do the same but iirc the players get to use most of the flats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 A monkey would know what I'm saying. I'm responding to your point that turnover in the relegation season is the same as it was last season. The reason for that is TV revenues for 10/11, were vastly superior to 08/09, every other aspect and facet of the club is generating less income by far. It's not a trend across all clubs neither, prove it is. Newcastle have stagnated financially more than any other club in English football in terms of income, it's not even something you can argue over. TV income up 10m, commercial income down 10m, Virgin deal just brought in 10m so we should be back in the mid-20s after this deal, the max seen in our accounts is 27m. The trend is there for any club not in the CL but the ramble has a great article on stagnating commercial income at Arsenal. Despite these massive increases, Liverpool's revenue has not grown overal for the last 3 accounts, its stuck at 185m. So if TV is going up, and revenue stays the same, it means other income is falling. All on the Ramble for the proof. Some clubs like sunderland have done ok, keeping a commercial income of around 10-12m, we dipped to 15m in the relegation season and with better figure this year, plus the virgin deal will be back in the 20s, near our maximum figure. Of coursre the club went backwards but a simple analysis of current activity and figures shows we will approach the highest we've ever earned. Its the direction of these figures over time from the lowest point that counts now. The fact they decreased to 54m 2 seasons ago was a disaster, how the club is positioned financially since then has been ok, not amazing but its moving in the right direction. Club revenues are increasing and will increase again this year, whether we qualify for Europe or not. Simply saying that because the club's finances were impacted because of relegation and are not where they should be does not equal mis-management of the finances. I presume you are trying to criticise the financial management because the current football management is satisfactory? Things change, new trends emerge and if you look at how things are moving, no one with an ounce of experience in finance would say things were peforming badly on that front. Neither on the football front either. Just admit you're wrong and we'll move on. I'm not wrong on any point I've made, nice of you to ignore the ones I corrected you on though. What have you corrected me on? The only point i've not responded to is whether any other club in England has stagnated as badly as us. I've clarified the meaning of financial management for you and hopefully flagged up what the rest of the football world is saying about the club. If you think i've ignore a point, then tell me which one. Divvunt get huffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 To cut through all the shit we are in a good place compared to our real competitors for 2nd tier Euro competition right now (Liv, Everton, Villa). Think Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea are the one's THAT REALLY NEED CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THIS SEASON. We don't. For me Fat Ashley has fucked up core supporter relationships which is hitting the bottom line (Chez and Stevie and Nicos agree on this). The next set of figures and the summer window will be the tell on where we are going. Think we will lose Tiote, but if the rest are kept together and the mythical 2/3 are added I'm positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. I've read it was worth £12 million to Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. Selling Carroll was basically a seasons good run in the CL money. It's how Spurs stayed in contact with the breakaway group: Berabtov and Carrick. The plan will be to sell Modric this summer if the don't make it. Edited February 21, 2012 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. I've read it was worth £12 million to Fulham. It will be including gate receipts and competition prize money, that is only TV revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. That's just tv money it has a knock on effect on the brand and subsidiary sales (sponsorhip, shirt sales and so on...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. Selling Carroll was basically a seasons good run in the CL money. It's how Spurs stayed in contact with the breakaway group: Berabtov and Carrick. Or like this season where they've made a massive profit on player trading, something like £25 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That's just tv money it has a knock on effect on the brand and subsidiary sales (sponsorhip, shirt sales and so on...) Nae fucker watches Channel 5 man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Think the Europa money is relatively insignificant. Barely worth the 10 extra games to fuck the squad up. Selling Carroll was basically a seasons good run in the CL money. It's how Spurs stayed in contact with the breakaway group: Berabtov and Carrick. Or like this season where they've made a massive profit on player trading, something like £25 million. I've got absolutely no issues with player trading if the momentum is forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Are we booking the Carroll money at any point? How come this rich list which has us at 88m doesnt include it? For all the talk about waving balance sheets above our heads and supporting the bank account, am getting very little off that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Are we booking the Carroll money at any point? How come this rich list which has us at 88m doesnt include it? For all the talk about waving balance sheets above our heads and supporting the bank account, am getting very little off that deal. The Deloitte report has never included transfer dealings. All it is, is operating income, transfer dealings aren't included as part of this. Edited February 21, 2012 by McFaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Football shirts are still the most profitable piece of merchandise for clubs as 13.7 million were sold throughout Europe." Edited February 21, 2012 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Football shirts are still the most profitable piece of merchandise for clubs as 13.7 million were sold throughout Europe." We sold 650,000 in 1996, more than the England shirt, the same as Liverpool, only Man Utd sold more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I had all the turnovers in a spreadie from last time we had this argument, so whacked them in a chart of comparable clubs to us. Think it illustrates the points of both Stevie and Chez. The Mackems, Villa, Everton, Fulham and Blackburn all overtook our level of turnover when the extra PL money came in. All of those with the exception of Fulham and Villa have done it simply by stagnating though, even with that huge amount of extra TV money coming in. It's just our lower turnover that has seen us fall below them. We can expect to recover to pre-relegation levels in 2011, effectively showing the same level of stagnation overall Like Fulham and Villa, Liverpool and (to a lesser extent) Spurs have managed to grow revenue though, either closing the gap on us or extending it. With or without relegation though, we are the only club where the overall trend was downwards rather than up. Edited February 21, 2012 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I had all the turnovers in a spreadie from last time we had this argument, so whacked them in a chart of comparable clubs to us. Think it illustrates the points of both Stevie and Chez. The Mackems, Villa, Everton, Fulham and Blackburn all overtook our level of turnover when the extra PL money came in. All of those with the exception of Fulham and Villa have done it simply by stagnating though, even with that huge amount of extra TV money coming in. It's just our lower turnover that has seen us fall below them. We can expect to recover to pre-relegation levels in 2011, effectively showing the same level of stagnation overall Like Fulham and Villa, Liverpool and (to a lesser extent) Spurs have managed to grow revenue though, either closing the gap on us or extending it. With or without relegation though, we are the only club where the overall trend was downwards rather than up. Your chart doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Your chart doesn't work. How very dare you! What's up with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Football shirts are still the most profitable piece of merchandise for clubs as 13.7 million were sold throughout Europe." We sold 650,000 in 1996, more than the England shirt, the same as Liverpool, only Man Utd sold more. That was an outstanding shirt though. They're still going on eBay for about £70. There's a lot to be said for quality kit, better than the shite that Puma pumps out! Bring back Adidas and bring back the 95-97 shirt design! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Football shirts are still the most profitable piece of merchandise for clubs as 13.7 million were sold throughout Europe." We sold 650,000 in 1996, more than the England shirt, the same as Liverpool, only Man Utd sold more. That was an outstanding shirt though. They're still going on eBay for about £70. There's a lot to be said for quality kit, better than the shite that Puma pumps out! Bring back Adidas and bring back the 95-97 shirt design! My first shirt, what horrible material, nice design though. Never want adidas back because the material was gross. Besides I like this seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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