Dr Gloom 21794 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I wouldn't complain too much if we spent over 15m on him as long as other players follow and we don't lose key players. Paying out that sort of fee would be a statement from the owner that he's serious about the club doing well again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30219 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Paying out that sort of fee would be a statement from the owner that he's serious about the club doing well again. FSG wanted to make a statement when they signed Carroll, statements don't win you anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4713 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Aye I don't buy the "paying x means we're serious" argument like you've said Ewerk if we're spending 20 million I'd want a 20 million player not one that is justified by "ah its fine we got 35 for him 18 months ago" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Exactly, there's no real business logic there is there? If we are going to break our spending record I'd rather it was for someone who is better than what we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinh9 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Have faith. He will be coming back with some major things to prove and I think all the naysayers are underrating his other abilities. Sure, he couldn't be a great on the ball player like Liverpool wanted him to be, but we can work with him. Also, if we get him expect him to pretty much be with the club for a very long time if things pan out. As much as we can say we love Cisse/Ba who knows when they will leave. Also, if you guys are serious about taking this club to the next level, then you have to realize that today's game is Depth, Depth, and more Depth. We don't need to force Andy to play/start every game in the season. We need to work out a system first, then see how things go from there. Some games he may work better as a sub to start out, but his skills can wreck certain teams. We will be needing him in the Europa League. He is only 23 years old! This is going to be the best deal this club has ever done in its history, you just watch. It is time to start thinking about winning trophies, league, and branching outside of England. You need to spend some to win. I am not a guy that condones today's insane spending, but you have to do it at some point or else you will be destined to mid level table. You illustrate my point. Depth, depth and more depth. 20 million on one player, 80k on one player with limited resources is not conclusive to that end game. I admitted that if we got him at a decent rate it would be worth it, but it simply isn't at that. No way, no how. Local hero or not- I don't care. And Liverpool will NOT sell him at anything less than 17 million, and that's at the real low end of the spectrum. Again, if you know how football teams value their players as assets- you will realize that Liverpool won't take that hit. I'm not arguing that you need to spend to win. 20 million...better spent on Andy Carroll or Debuchy + a young striker + a CB? I don't want this club to be a mini arsenal. You have to pay your current players and pay up for at least one big transfer in the off season. The better the team gets, especially worldwide=more fans. This team has a lot of work to do for worldwide appeal, but once that revenue comes rolling in then you can expect expansion. People also have to realize that our owner isn't poor at all. Go look up his net worth. He may be the most important factor that gets this club forward. You have to take some losses to cash in on future success. There is no excuse not to spend on this deal considering the fact that this club will be coming out atop a minimum of 15 million most likely a lot more. You don't know how Arsenal works, no offense on that and I mean no disrespect..... but Arsene Wenger has wasted more money than any other team in the business. His problem is that he pays BIG in wages and transfers for unproven players. And look where it has gotten them. Huge wages for unproven play....oh Andy Carroll? http://arsenaltruth.squarespace.com/arsenal-truth/2012/2/23/arsenals-130m-wage-bill-exposed.html EDIT: Would like to add that he could still have success at Liverpool. If the manager had any faith in him(doesn't look like it) they could keep working with him and build. If I was him, I would have said he is absolutely not for sale and praised his late campaign success. I think he is going about this the wrong way and if he ends up staying it is really going to hurt his confidence. I don't know the guy personally, but if I was him I would have a huge chip on my shoulder and would want to show everyone that they are wrong and I am world class player. Of course he can, and I suspect that he might be a success. It honestly has nothing to do with his talent- it has to do with the fact that we are taking on an asset that is way overpriced for a club of our stature. If we do that, do you not think Cisse will want parity after out-scoring him next year? Ba? Ben Arfa? Cayabe? Etc....We are having success with our model and we are going to grow into the club we all want us to be. It won't come from massively overpriced players on ludicrous wages- and really you need to look no further than our last chairman for that evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Exactly, there's no real business logic there is there? If we are going to break our spending record I'd rather it was for someone who is better than what we've got. Personally, I think he's better than Ba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTheBobby 1 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 1:30 > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinh9 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Personally, I think he's better than Ba. Possibly. But Demba Ba came without a transfer fee and I think was on 25-30k last year. Even if he gets a new deal worth 50k, that's still a huge monetary difference from Andy. Demba also scored 16 goals last season and didn't even feature as an out and out striker towards the end. There aren't a ton of players who hit that amount of goals in a season. You are talking about serious value for $ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinh9 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'd put a decent amount of money on us not getting him back. In fact, I think this is just a cheeky attempt to show that we are running a great business model for those that already haven't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42001 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 He's talking out of his arse, as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Yes, but from our perspective it would be much better to pay £20m for a player actually worth £20m rather than simply because he's available and used to play for us. I think when you look at football deals these days, £15m is a fair price for him. Just read an article from a kid on the nufcfans banner, basically saying (and this is in all seriousness) he was asked by NUFC to play shit for 18 months and we'd bring him home for half the price Hands up if you were upset and/or angry on the night of January 31st 2011 when Newcastle Utd decided to sell their star striker, Andy Carroll. Okay, that seems unanimous. Yes, it wasn't a good time, but now we're in a much better state. Whether you hate Andy Carroll or rate him, whether you loath Mike Ashley or love him, the Carroll-Liverpool deal worked out great for the Toon. Yet only eighteen months later Newcastle Utd are in talks to bring the Gateshead lad back?! There's just something not quite right about this whole situation. The timing, the supposed desperation, the money, the clubs involved. It's a story ripe for footballing conspiracy theorists everywhere! It's impossible for me not to suspect foul play. Here's my conspiracy theory: December 2010, a plot is being hatched at Toon HQ. The culprits? Mike Ashley, Derek Llambias, Lee Charnley, Alan Pardew... & Andy Carroll. The plot? to take advantage of the huge amount of cash flowing in the direction of Liverpool via Chelsea. The wheels are in motion; Andy Carroll's agent makes it known to Fenway Sports Group & Kenny Dalglish that the Magpies' no.9 is up for sale. The bait is swallowed by the Scouse sharks -hook, line & sinker! With £35m, the knights at the Tyneside round table (Ashley, Llambias, Pardew, Charnley & our very own Merlin, Graham Carr) set about assembling a squad to rival that of Keegan's Entertainers. The catch? the master stroke of the whole plot, which is down to Andy himself to carry out, is to show only a fraction of what he's capable of at his new club, sending his price tumbling -& eventually orchestrate a return to SJP. The con is on! Andy Carroll is still a Liverpool player, but already the Anfield board are shaking in their boots at the thought of dealing with the evil genius of Sports Direct. With Carroll wanting to come back & Pardew wanting the player back, Newcastle Utd hold all the cards in this game. Was that the plan all along? Makes a change that one of football's biggest clubs is being ripped off, instead of doing the ripping off! This may be a farfetched, wild article lacking any evidence whatsoever. Then again, the truth is always stranger than fiction in football, especially if a certain Geordie giant is wearing black & white come September 1st. Want to comment on this article? You can do so via our Blog Article by Deon J Hulme @Deonysws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Although I still like Carroll as a player and would do a good job, I'd rather (If we are to splash big money on him) it be spent on say for example Douglas and Guidetti and still have moeny left over to get a few more youngsters and get Debuchy over the line quicker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Personally, I think he's better than Ba. Amuse me and tell me why you think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'll start off my disagreement by saying Ba is a better finisher, has better technique and has better movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Amuse me and tell me why you think so. It's because he (Cabayeaye) is a WUM, little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4713 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'll start off my disagreement by saying Ba is a better finisher, has better technique and has better movement. Carroll certainly has more hair though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Out of interest, how much do people think Ba, Carroll and Cisse are worth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nortoon 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I think when you look at football deals these days, £15m is a fair price for him. Just read an article from a kid on the nufcfans banner, basically saying (and this is in all seriousness) he was asked by NUFC to play shit for 18 months and we'd bring him home for half the price Hope thats true The dive at SJP was incredibly suspicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Out of interest, how much do people think Ba, Carroll and Cisse are worth? I'd say they're all probably worth around 10-15m. Carroll would be worth less if he wasnt English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 FSG wanted to make a statement when they signed Carroll, statements don't win you anything. No, statements don't win anything. Good observation. Nice to think the owner's heart might be in it again though after the debacke that was the keegan/JFK/relegation years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I'd say they're all probably worth around 10-15m. Carroll would be worth less if he wasnt English. Have you been doing crystal meths again? Cisse 10-15m, he's the best finisher in English football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30219 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 No, statements don't win anything. Good observation. Nice to think the owner's heart might be in it again though after the debacke that was the keegan/JFK/relegation years I couldn't give a fuck about Mike Ashley as long as the team is performing and spending more money than we need to on Andy Carroll isn't going to help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21794 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I couldn't give a fuck about Mike Ashley as long as the team is performing and spending more money than we need to on Andy Carroll isn't going to help with that. Spending a lot of cash on carroll suggests he might be serious about investing in the squad again. That is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinh9 0 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Just read an article from a kid on the nufcfans banner, basically saying (and this is in all seriousness) he was asked by NUFC to play shit for 18 months and we'd bring him home for half the price Dumbest thing I've read in a very long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30219 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 Spending a lot of cash on carroll suggests he might be serious about investing in the squad again. That is a good thing. Spending £17m - £20m on a player not worth it isn't a good thing. Has Leazes hacked your account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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