Carroll`s career so far in Liverpool

[LeazesMag 0]

So in short, unless we're spunking all the cash we can on players, we're not being ambitious enough?

 

With regards 'witholding cash from the manager and not backing him', we made the biggest single purchase in January so that comment is a load of cobblers too.

 

who said spunking ?

 

Fact is, the possibilty was there to cement a european place or even go higher with money burning a hole in the pocket and it wasn't even attempted.

 

When this happens a few more times, then you will see.

[LeazesMag 0]

You need to look at the bigger picture - a net inflow of funds from transfers of £29 million since 2007 - what does that tell you about the sort of ambition Ashely has for the club

 

If the net inflow was zero it would still show a lack of ambition

 

If we had not sold Carroll I would have still expected us, if we had any ambition, to strenghten the team, but as it is he has not even used all that money to back the manager. It cannot be sustained in the longer term. If it was so easy to sell your best players and replace with cheaper then everyone would be doing it.

 

I cannot understand the amount of people who appear to be backing Ashley over this approach - he must be delighted

 

Again you seem to be peddling the idea that if we have cash in our pockets, we must spend it.

 

In the past 24 months we've signifcantly reduced our overheads and significantly improved from a footballing perspective.

 

I cannot understand how a fan of Newcastle United cannot be delighted by those facts.

 

So we've recouped more than we've spent... So long as the team is more successful (which it undeniably is), does that have to be a bad thing?

 

more successful ? Do you mean 2 steps backwards and 1 step forwards again, but with a more limited ambition to go with it ?

 

Not good enough I'm afraid.

[brummiemag1 0]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

A net inlay of £29 million in transfers and the shameful renaming of the ground tells you a lot about Ashleys motives and ambition.

[ewerk 30209]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

[JawD 99]

So in short, unless we're spunking all the cash we can on players, we're not being ambitious enough?

 

With regards 'witholding cash from the manager and not backing him', we made the biggest single purchase in January so that comment is a load of cobblers too.

 

who said spunking ?

 

Fact is, the possibilty was there to cement a european place or even go higher with money burning a hole in the pocket and it wasn't even attempted.

 

When this happens a few more times, then you will see.

 

Keeping your powder dry? Yeah I remember that comment all too well. thing is, when do you think we didnt attempt to sign anyone? the last window when we signed Cisse or the one before?

[brummiemag1 0]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

 

Your figures are wrong, theres an net profit on transfers of £29 million. It shows a lack of ambition. What do you want me to explain?

 

I think its the highest in the premier league

 

Do other clubs not pay agents fees?

 

How about shutting the fuck up yourself?

[JawD 99]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

A net inlay of £29 million in transfers and the shameful renaming of the ground tells you a lot about Ashleys motives and ambition.

 

you mean like Man Utd? Since 09/10 their nett is (£12.8M).

Or how about Arsenal? Since 09/10 their nett is (£41.7)

How about the Mackems? Since 09/10 their nett is (£2.8M)

 

Replacing with Cheaper is not the same as replacing with less quality.

[ewerk 30209]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

 

Your figures are wrong, theres an net profit on transfers of £29 million. It shows a lack of ambition. What do you want me to explain?

 

I think its the highest in the premier league

 

Do other clubs not pay agents fees?

 

How about shutting the fuck up yourself?

 

£29m over the last two years? I'd like to see how you came to that figure.

[JawD 99]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

 

Your figures are wrong, theres an net profit on transfers of £29 million. It shows a lack of ambition. What do you want me to explain?

 

I think its the highest in the premier league

 

Do other clubs not pay agents fees?

 

How about shutting the fuck up yourself?

 

Highest is Arsenal. By far.

[LeazesMag 0]

I still dont get this arguement.

 

We sell Carroll for £35M.

 

We bring in Ba & Cisse with plenty of change and some see that as a bad thing, weakening our position?

 

The team will never be "finished". Now we want a centre half and a full back (at least).

 

Fact is, the team is stronger today than it was 24 months ago. The next thing is whether we think it is stronger again in 12 months time.

 

Finally, the thing that always gets my goat (this to you LM). Why must you insist that people are either in the Ashley camp firmly and unequivocally, or not?

 

I hope those who accuse me of posting comments about people they have never made are reading this. And Gemmill, Renton and the Grey man can respond intelligently rather than hurl childish comments then accuse someone else of dragging the board down.

 

You won't find a post from me saying I think its a bad thing to sell Carroll and bring in Ba and Cisse, even though I'm far from convinced about Cisse who has only turned up once and that was his debut. Nor will you find anything from me saying it "weakens our position".

 

I have however said why not have Carroll, Cisse and Ba on the books, and as we haven't seen the Carroll money and Cisse only cost 10m quid, for a club like NUFC this is a relevant point.

 

You are right the team will never be "finished", no team is, that is why everybody should always look to improve. Even Barcelona do that, so what is Mike Ashleys excuse, or the excuse people are finding ?

 

I do not insist everyone is either in or out of the Ashley camp or not, anymore than people say that I insist everyone is either in or out of the "Fred" camp. I just want someone who wants the best for NUFC and knows how big the club is and shows the ambition they ought to have for the club.

 

I tell you what JawD, if we use most or the rest of that Carroll cash in the summer to buy 2 quality players to go straight into that team, without selling Tiote, Colo, Krul, Ba, Cabaye or any other major player to fund it, then I will admit that hopefully Mike Ashley has seen how to do things providing others such as Gemmill, the grey man, Renton, Chez, Toonpac etc come on here and admit that they have indeed been deluded [and we are not "doing it like Spurs"] if one of those senior players is sold and we replace cheaply again with more money or the rest of the Carroll money disappearing ?

 

That will be 18 months and 3 transfer windows to spend the Carroll cash and back the manager. No more excuses if we don't see it by then. I realise Toonspac has been saying "wait until the next window" for about the last 3 years though.

 

Will you then understand ? Because I don't think the others will, or they will never admit it anyway.

Edited March 13, 2012 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

 

stop dragging the forum down, Gemmil will be after you

[ewerk 30209]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

You can keep saying that if you want but I've asked you to show me how we've done it over the last two years and you've refused to answer.

 

So what about shutting the fuck up?

 

stop dragging the forum down, Gemmil will be after you

 

You still think that Williamson is a better player than Coloccini?

[Davey Dave 0]

 

He can point fingers, man!

[brummiemag1 0]

The £29 million profit on transfers is since 2007 so its even worse

 

Try the Ashley Transfer history thread page 1 - Happy Face has kept it up to date

 

I'm sure I have also seen a graph on this forum which shows that over that same period we have the highest net inlay on transfers in the premier league

 

So if you accept the figure of £29 million is correct, do you think that its a strategy that will lead to long term success?

[LeazesMag 0]

So in short, unless we're spunking all the cash we can on players, we're not being ambitious enough?

 

With regards 'witholding cash from the manager and not backing him', we made the biggest single purchase in January so that comment is a load of cobblers too.

 

who said spunking ?

 

Fact is, the possibilty was there to cement a european place or even go higher with money burning a hole in the pocket and it wasn't even attempted.

 

When this happens a few more times, then you will see.

 

Keeping your powder dry? Yeah I remember that comment all too well. thing is, when do you think we didnt attempt to sign anyone? the last window when we signed Cisse or the one before?

 

I'm not keeping any powder dry, I already know that the club will NEVER attempt to go that final hurdle and compete with the big clubs that we used to compete with and beat, that are challenging the sugar daddies, like we also ought to be doing.

 

One player changes fuck all. The old board signed Keegan as a player, but stopped there. They also signed great players like Malcolm Macdonald and Tony Green, but didn't attempt to build further, so they went backwards. This is what Mike Ashley is going to do, he's been doing it all along, and people are fooled by one decent season and calling it "progress", but the progress has reached its limit. Is it good enough for you ? It isn't good enough for me.

 

You will see. The mentality of the club is easy to work out, when you have seen and heard all the excuses and comments before.

Edited March 13, 2012 by LeazesMag

[ewerk 30209]

The £29 million profit on transfers is since 2007 so its even worse

 

Try the Ashley Transfer history thread page 1 - Happy Face has kept it up to date

 

I'm sure I have also seen a graph on this forum which shows that over that same period we have the highest net inlay on transfers in the premier league

 

So if you accept the figure of £29 million is correct, do you think that its a strategy that will lead to long term success?

 

Can you accept that there has been a change of strategy since relegation? Or is that too much for you?

[ewerk 30209]

You still think that Williamson is a better player than Coloccini?

 

prick. Gemmill will be after you and tell you he hopes you are banned and the board is better off without people dragging it down like this.

 

Avoiding the question again. Do you still think that Williamson is a better player than Coloccini?

[Craig 6670]

Of course I'm pleased with some of the signings we have made but a sell your best players and replace with cheaper isn't sustainable in the long run - if it was so easy then every single club would be doing it.

 

A net inlay of £29 million in transfers and the shameful renaming of the ground tells you a lot about Ashleys motives and ambition.

 

you mean like Man Utd? Since 09/10 their nett is (£12.8M).

Or how about Arsenal? Since 09/10 their nett is (£41.7)

How about the Mackems? Since 09/10 their nett is (£2.8M)

 

Replacing with Cheaper is not the same as replacing with less quality.

 

The esscence of the point we're trying to make in a nut shell. We're better than we were 2 years ago. The fact we've done it at the same time as reducing our overheads and increasing revenue is a bonus. Quite how that can be a step backwards quite frankly is beyond me.

[JawD 99]

I still dont get this arguement.

 

We sell Carroll for £35M.

 

We bring in Ba & Cisse with plenty of change and some see that as a bad thing, weakening our position?

 

The team will never be "finished". Now we want a centre half and a full back (at least).

 

Fact is, the team is stronger today than it was 24 months ago. The next thing is whether we think it is stronger again in 12 months time.

 

Finally, the thing that always gets my goat (this to you LM). Why must you insist that people are either in the Ashley camp firmly and unequivocally, or not?

 

I hope those who accuse me of posting comments about people they have never made are reading this. And Gemmill, Renton and the Grey man who can respond intelligently rather than hurl childish comments then accuse someone else of dragging the board down.

 

You won't find a post from me saying I think its a bad thing to sell Carroll and bring in Ba and Cisse, even though I'm far from convinced about Cisse who has only turned up once and that was his debut. Nor will you find anything from me saying it "weakens our position".

 

I have however said why not have Carroll, Cisse and Ba on the books, and as we haven't seen the Carroll money and Cisse only cost 10m quid, for a club like NUFC this is a relevant point.

 

You are right the team will never be "finished", no team is, that is why everybody should always look to improve. Even Barcelona do that, so what is Mike Ashleys excuse, or the excuse people are finding ?

 

I do not insist everyone is either in or out of the Ashley camp or not, anymore than people say that I insist everyone is either in or out of the "Fred" camp. I just want someone who wants the best for NUFC and knows how big the club is and shows the ambition they ought to have for the club. I tell you what JawD, if we use most or the rest of that Carroll cash in the summer to buy 2 quality players to go straight into that team, without selling Tiote, Colo, Krul, Ba, Cabaye or any other major player to fund it, then I will admit that hopefully Mike Ashley has seen how to do things providing others such as Gemmill, the grey man, Renton, Chez, Toonpac etc come on here and admit that they have indeed been deluded ["and we are not doing it like Spurs"] if one of those senior players is sold and we replace cheaply again with more money or the rest of the Carroll money disappearing ?

That will be 18 months and 3 transfer windows to spend the Carroll cash and back the manager.

 

Will you then understand ? Because I don't think the others will, or they will never admit it anyway.

 

Regarding Cisse. I agree in a way but it's early. Give him this season, see how he does next.

 

Regarding the AC cash. I think the club think it is all gone. I'll tell you why (and Im not saying I agree, I just think this is their stance). When you add up the purchases since AC its around £30M including HBA. Plus the agent fees of now around £8M or something. Plus they mentioned ground improvements (training). Even without the latter you can see we are about over £35M but lets not forget we also sold £9M in Enrique and Nolan. So I think the AC arguement is dead in the water but if you think we should spend more than we make on sales then you should be asking about the money from those.

 

Regarding the summer, I am 99% sure we will sell someone. I wont like it but it's what I expect. Whether we will sell someone and reinvest ALL of the funds, I really have no idea. My hope is that we get in to Europe and the extra revenue from that takes the pressure off the overall P&L so that we can at least break even on player sales/purchases.

 

Oh, and we aint doing a Spurs. They have spent bucket loads. Arsenal must surely be the biggest team who dont spend (so to speak).

[JawD 99]

The £29 million profit on transfers is since 2007 so its even worse

 

Try the Ashley Transfer history thread page 1 - Happy Face has kept it up to date

 

I'm sure I have also seen a graph on this forum which shows that over that same period we have the highest net inlay on transfers in the premier league

 

So if you accept the figure of £29 million is correct, do you think that its a strategy that will lead to long term success?

 

we havent man I keep telling you its Arsenal

[brummiemag1 0]

The £29 million profit on transfers is since 2007 so its even worse

 

Try the Ashley Transfer history thread page 1 - Happy Face has kept it up to date

 

I'm sure I have also seen a graph on this forum which shows that over that same period we have the highest net inlay on transfers in the premier league

 

So if you accept the figure of £29 million is correct, do you think that its a strategy that will lead to long term success?

 

we havent man I keep telling you its Arsenal

 

Maybe it is Arsenal JawD, but it doesn't detract from the point I'm trying to make

[JawD 99]

The £29 million profit on transfers is since 2007 so its even worse

 

Try the Ashley Transfer history thread page 1 - Happy Face has kept it up to date

 

I'm sure I have also seen a graph on this forum which shows that over that same period we have the highest net inlay on transfers in the premier league

 

So if you accept the figure of £29 million is correct, do you think that its a strategy that will lead to long term success?

 

we havent man I keep telling you its Arsenal

 

Maybe it is Arsenal JawD, but it doesn't detract from the point I'm trying to make

 

Ok, so ignoring the fact that Arsenal can trade with a negative outlay and are sitting in 4th. Or that Man Utd have done it for a couple of years (not since 2007 like). Then no, I wouldnt normally think you could progress at all by spending less than you sell. At the moment, you have to say it is working for us. but long term I agree I cant see how you can possibly keep making that work. I agree that surely at some point you can only take the team so far with this method. The question is how far? We should get into europa with this method. Is that far enough for us? For a club of our size I would say that is the least we should be aiming for. Champions League? I think we are miles away.

 

What I thnk will be interesting is to see how the club handles extra revenue (from europe). We have only really see how they act when we make a loss.

[Baggio 0]

You still think that Williamson is a better player than Coloccini?

 

What?!

[ewerk 30209]

You still think that Williamson is a better player than Coloccini?

 

Leazes mocked a few others for previously stating that they thought Williamson was a better player than Taylor, despite him himself claiming that Williamson was superior to Coloccini.

What?!

[Baggio 0]

oh dear