Someones Dropped a Bollock On my Watch - Advice

[manc-mag 1]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

What a surprise.

 

There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing.

 

No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly.

 

Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash.

 

The lack of accountability is staggering.

 

 

 

By the same token you want to see how much private sector firms take the piss when they've got their snouts in public sector contracts. Wanting to renegotiate contracts every five minutes too after they've pitched tenders too low just to get their snouts in said trough.

 

And that's coming from someone who's largely very cynical of the public sector.

 

Oh undoubtedly, but that's because it has been a soft touch, a big private sector company would rarely get away with it on another, they'd be told "tough shit, fuck off". The Public sector needs to grow a pair, at all levels.

 

Aye, I agree fwiw. There's more holding to ransom goes on though with public sector contracts though because it has a moral imperative to deliver, unlike the private sector. Which is the essential difference. Private sector workers will bust a gut to save their jobs, it's just pure self interest and survival instinct, they're not higher beings. Don't think you can instill the same in the public sector because it's patently obvious that isn't a commercial reality of the job. People aren't thick so you can't artificially manufacture that, you can only weed out the dickheads.

 

People will always be more motivated to protect themselves (their jobs) ie private sector before they start doing 'altruistic' things for others ie public sector. There is no bigger motivator than self interest, but it simply can't exist in the public sector in anywhere like the same way.

[Tooj 17]

Can I put this thread on your Linkedin?

[Toonpack 10392]

How is 20 minutes 25% of the day? If typical utilisation is 80% then that is in fact 100%. You can knock 5% off one or the other, not combine them to make shite up.

 

Late in and chatting for 5 minutes, shoot them, shoot them all!

 

I never said it was

 

You accept that in a working day, you're likely to get about 80% productivity, as a general rule,which allows for "chatting time"etc. coming in late and then chatting for additional time, before even looking at your work is undoubtedly "taking the piss". Especially if the job is behind/in trouble as Wiki described.

[Toonpack 10392]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

What a surprise.

 

There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing.

 

No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly.

 

Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash.

 

The lack of accountability is staggering.

 

 

 

By the same token you want to see how much private sector firms take the piss when they've got their snouts in public sector contracts. Wanting to renegotiate contracts every five minutes too after they've pitched tenders too low just to get their snouts in said trough.

 

And that's coming from someone who's largely very cynical of the public sector.

 

Oh undoubtedly, but that's because it has been a soft touch, a big private sector company would rarely get away with it on another, they'd be told "tough shit, fuck off". The Public sector needs to grow a pair, at all levels.

 

Aye, I agree fwiw. There's more holding to ransom goes on though with public sector contracts though because it has a moral imperative to deliver, unlike the private sector. Which is the essential difference. Private sector workers will bust a gut to save their jobs, it's just pure self interest and survival instinct, they're not higher beings. Don't think you can instill the same in the public sector because it's patently obvious that isn't a commercial reality of the job. People aren't thick so you can't artificially manufacture that, you can only weed out the dickheads.

 

People will always be more motivated to protect themselves (their jobs) ie private sector before they start doing 'altruistic' things for others ie public sector. There is no bigger motivator than self interest, but it simply can't exist in the public sector in anywhere like the same way.

 

It needs to be though.

 

Not all the Public Sector is "alturistic" which is the problem. Doctors, Nurses, Police, Fire, and the like, deserve a hell of a lot more than they get and should be protected. The more "departmental" environments are where reality needs to bite, if a department is failing, outsource it and shut it down. The country cannot afford the waste.

[trophyshy 7095]

How is 20 minutes 25% of the day? If typical utilisation is 80% then that is in fact 100%. You can knock 5% off one or the other, not combine them to make shite up.

 

Late in and chatting for 5 minutes, shoot them, shoot them all!

 

I never said it was

 

You accept that in a working day, you're likely to get about 80% productivity, as a general rule,which allows for "chatting time"etc. coming in late and then chatting for additional time, before even looking at your work is undoubtedly "taking the piss". Especially if the job is behind/in trouble as Wiki described.

 

My point was that if everyone is already losing 20% anyway then the 80% is 100%. Everyone is only doing the 80 so you're only losing 5%. Not that that is acceptable in this capitalist gangbang of course.

[Gemmill 47072]

Can I put this thread on your Linkedin?

 

Is there a LinkedIn Toontastic network?

 

[manc-mag 1]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

What a surprise.

 

There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing.

 

No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly.

 

Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash.

 

The lack of accountability is staggering.

 

 

 

By the same token you want to see how much private sector firms take the piss when they've got their snouts in public sector contracts. Wanting to renegotiate contracts every five minutes too after they've pitched tenders too low just to get their snouts in said trough.

 

And that's coming from someone who's largely very cynical of the public sector.

 

Oh undoubtedly, but that's because it has been a soft touch, a big private sector company would rarely get away with it on another, they'd be told "tough shit, fuck off". The Public sector needs to grow a pair, at all levels.

 

Aye, I agree fwiw. There's more holding to ransom goes on though with public sector contracts though because it has a moral imperative to deliver, unlike the private sector. Which is the essential difference. Private sector workers will bust a gut to save their jobs, it's just pure self interest and survival instinct, they're not higher beings. Don't think you can instill the same in the public sector because it's patently obvious that isn't a commercial reality of the job. People aren't thick so you can't artificially manufacture that, you can only weed out the dickheads.

 

People will always be more motivated to protect themselves (their jobs) ie private sector before they start doing 'altruistic' things for others ie public sector. There is no bigger motivator than self interest, but it simply can't exist in the public sector in anywhere like the same way.

 

It needs to be though.

 

Not all the Public Sector is "alturistic" which is the problem. Doctors, Nurses, Police, Fire, and the like, deserve a hell of a lot more than they get and should be protected. The more "departmental" environments are where reality needs to bite, if a department is failing, outsource it and shut it down. The country cannot afford the waste.

 

Well it's not altruistic at all in the pure sense obviously as it's services rendered for financial compensation in the normal way. Just the 'product' is obviously lauded as it's often something to do with care/welfare. I just mean the jobs are largely taken by people who enter into it wanting to be a public servant ie be paid to carry out a public service for a living. You can't con them that they're carrying out a commercial service because it's plain as day they're not, so equally they'll take the view their job has less of a link with any commercial reality. For the most part, if it's something they're interested in they'll be highly motivated to deliver the product, but they'd never be as highly motivated as if their job depended on it 24/7. And that can never be the case-that is the reality for the reasons mentioned.

 

I agree about those deeply ensconced in departmental duties being the ones who need to feel any incoming culture change the most though. Conversley I'd disagree with you about the front line staff you mention deserving more-of those I'd only say nurses should get better pay (if we're talking in generalities).

[Gejon 2]

Follow her home. Kill her and then stuff her body (remove offal first) with a lovely Xmassy filling (I like to inc a nice berry mix and plenty of lemon juice). Wait a couple of days till rigour mortice sets in and bring her into work strapped to the front of yer pushbike. Light a fire on yer bosses desk and gently roast the carcass on a spit made out of various office acroutiments. Serve to onlookers with a straight face with a lashings of mulled wine. Sorted.

 

This post didn't get the attention it deserved, definitely think this is the answer.

[wykikitoon 21484]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

This isn't the first job where wyki has had these problems though so I would look at his own man management skills if I was him (which he has, tbf).

 

She was late in and rather than getting her head down she doesnt show willing and gabs loud for 5 minutes before the lazy bint has even put her PC on.

 

Like I say, if her work was mint I would let it slide. But its far from it.

[Smooth Operator 10]

Call the bitch out, I work with a team full of lazy bastards who don't do anywhere near a full days work cos it gets in the way of their social lives. I call them out in front of the manager and his manager on a daily basis and although a lot of it is said in a light hearted manner the purpose is to sow the seed in the managers head and let it develop itself cos if someone simply isn't pulling their weight it won't take long for it to become blatantly obvious to everyone. Seeing as I work in the civil service however, the most likely outcome is that they go unchallenged for years and then retire on a not so handsome now public sector pension.

[wykikitoon 21484]

Can I put this thread on your Linkedin?

 

Shhh

[Renton 22401]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

What a surprise.

 

There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing.

 

No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly.

 

Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash.

 

The lack of accountability is staggering.

 

Tit.

 

So having a 5 minute chat in the morning is taking the piss, but spending work time to bitch about a colleague on a football message board isn't?

 

I've just finished 9 years working for a private company on a public tender. During that time I could pretty much do what I liked, including post on here all day, which you would have known if you were around here a few years back. I could work at home when I liked, come and go as I pleased, and wear what I liked. I was however incredibly productive because my career was part of my life and my morale was great - I loved my job.

 

I now work in the public sector proper, and although I have some flexibility in my work times (I still, and always have, work far longer than my contracted hours), which is usual for most professionals, my work conditions are much stricter, including this place being blocked. I am allowed to chat like. Am I more productive? Am I fuck.

 

Before you point out wyki was complaining about his colleagues poor work standards, do you honestly believe her work quality is down to her 5 minute chats? What a load of bollocks. There might be some truth in it if she worked on the factory floor, but that's clearly not the case here. If what wyki says is true, it sounds she's not up to the job, end of.

 

Fwiw, I've had similar problems with a colleague work before. When I failed to manage it directly, and when it got to the stage I was worried it was damaging our companies reputation, I pointed out my concerns to the boss. Simple, the guy in question resigned the next week and I got a shit load of brownie points to boot. Wyki, just do what you think feels right, use your judgement and not the collective knowledge of this board ffs!

Edited December 2, 2011 by Renton

[Toonpack 10392]

Is chatting for FIVE minutes frowned upon in the private sector? Well no it's not in my experience, but if it is then morale must be shit I would reckon, which must worsten productivity.

 

Yes toonpack, I work in the public sector, and we have a degree of work flexibility which is common to most jobs where you don't have to wear a name badge.

 

What a surprise.

 

There's degrees of flexibility and then there's taking the piss. Coming in 15 mins late and then chatting for 5 minutes is taking the piss. That 20 minutes is the thick end of 5% her working day, given most people work at around 80% utilistation that's 25% of her day gone for nothing.

 

No, chatting is not frowned upon in the private sector, if the work is getting done, if the work is not getting done, then there is a problem, quite rightly.

 

Defending such behaviour is crass stupidity in todays climate. Given anything that does happen in the public sector is usually late and costs more than it should have . BTW if that scenario is repeated in a private sector environment it leads to business failure and lost jobs, not another huge bucket of government cash.

 

The lack of accountability is staggering.

 

Tit.

 

So having a 5 minute chat in the morning is taking the piss, but spending work time to bitch about a colleague on a football message board isn't?

 

I've just finished 9 years working for a private company on a public tender. During that time I could pretty much do what I liked, including post on here all day, which you would have known if you were around here a few years back. I could work at home when I liked, come and go as I pleased, and wear what I liked. I was however incredibly productive because my career was part of my life and my morale was great - I loved my job.

 

I now work in the public sector proper, and although I have some flexibility in my work times (I still, and always have, work far longer than my contracted hours), which is usual for most professionals, my work conditions are much stricter, including this place being blocked. I am allowed to chat like. Am I more productive? Am I fuck.

 

Before you point out wyki was complaining about his colleagues poor work standards, do you honestly believe her work quality is down to her 5 minute chats? What a load of bollocks. There might be some truth in it if she worked on the factory floor, but that's clearly not the case here. If what wyki says is true, it sounds she's not up to the job, end of.

 

Fwiw, I've had similar problems with a colleague work before. When I failed to manage it directly, and when it got to the stage I was worried it was damaging our companies reputation, I pointed out my concerns to the boss. Simple, the guy in question resigned the next week and I got a shit load of brownie points to boot. Wyki, just do what you think feels right, use your judgement and not the collective knowledge of this board ffs!

 

No, but coming in late and THEN having a chat before doing anything else, is.

 

I would also add, I never said "her" work quality was down to her chats btw. The job itself is "in trouble" do you think her lateness and chats help ??

[Renton 22401]

No, but coming in late and THEN having a chat before doing anything else, is.

 

I would also add, I never said "her" work quality was down to her chats btw. The job itself is "in trouble" do you think her lateness and chats help ??

 

'Lateness' isn't an issue that any professional I know has, unless it's for a meeting or they are frontline staff. Most people have a contracted amount of time they work and they can be flexible around tha (usually by an hour either way minimum). I'd absolutely hate to work somewhere where I couldn't chat for 5 minutes with my colleagues, regardless if I was in 15 minutes later than usual or not. It's 20 minutes man. I think it's completely irrelevant to her performance; I can see why wyki resents it but his problem again is due to her performance, not the 20 minutes involved. He's just bitching.

 

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. You made it quite clear in your earlier post you have issues with the public sector, despite this being about a private sector worker. Which is odd to say the least.

[wykikitoon 21484]

Her contracted hours are 8 - 4:30 on a Friday as are mine. Yes a little flexibility but continual lateness due to flexibility for her own cirumstances, i.e dropping the boyfriend off at the station, isnt that taking the piss? If your hours are set, then IMO you dont change them to suit you. Its a piss take, and especially as the scatty cunt doesnt make her hours up.

 

We all need a break during the working day, we would go fucking mental if not. We would be like battery hens. BUT Is it acceptable to come in 15-20mins late, go make a coffee and then gab for another 5-10mins before thinking about turing on her fucking PC? No its fucking not at all. Its taking the piss.

 

So, am I bitching? Yes, because her work is fucking shite and when picked out its shite there is no willingness from her to sort this out. In the past when I have had Senior engineers tell me things, Ive got my head down, grafted and worked hard to learn. She does nothing like that. She dropped several bollocks on my project.

[wykikitoon 21484]

No, but coming in late and THEN having a chat before doing anything else, is.

 

I would also add, I never said "her" work quality was down to her chats btw. The job itself is "in trouble" do you think her lateness and chats help ??

 

Spot on. The project isnt trouble, however if she continues at this rate we will get caught out. Pressure is on and it amplifies my frustration with her which doesnt help When I am late (FWIW I am very rarely late as i like to get in an hour before to get admin stuff done) ill get in, put my PC on and get started, then ill make a coffee / have a chat whatever. Its the fact she doesnt seem to give a fuck that annoys me.

[Park Life 71]

In African tribal culture women used to do all the hunting, cooking and child rearing while the men sat about and chatted all day smoking various herbs. Happy days.

[Howmanheyman 34434]

So to sum up parts of this thread, Do what you like as long as the job doesn't suffer, don't do what you like as its been decided you're already skiving by up to 20% before you've even walked through the fucking door. Unfortunately in the private sector, (haven't worked in the public sector so wont comment), you could graft your nuts off, pull a job back after circumstances which are no fault of THE ACTUAL FUCKING WORKERS themselves, and some UTTER CUNT will just think, 'good, done once, can do everyday'. There's a severe dumbing down of Managers, particularly middle managers in the workplace these last ten years or so, in my opinion/experience. Never has the term 'too many chiefs, not enough indians' been more apt.

[Howmanheyman 34434]

I'd just add that in my experience, most real, actual time saving/problem solving solutions I've ever encountered have come direct from the shop floor and not from any fucking chancer trying desperately to justify his job in management.

[Park Life 71]

So to sum up parts of this thread, Do what you like as long as the job doesn't suffer, don't do what you like as its been decided you're already skiving by up to 20% before you've even walked through the fucking door. Unfortunately in the private sector, (haven't worked in the public sector so wont comment), you could graft your nuts off, pull a job back after circumstances which are no fault of THE ACTUAL FUCKING WORKERS themselves, and some UTTER CUNT will just think, 'good, done once, can do everyday'. There's a severe dumbing down of Managers, particularly middle managers in the workplace these last ten years or so, in my opinion/experience. Never has the term 'too many chiefs, not enough indians' been more apt.

 

The moral of this thread is that you're in debt till you die and you're not even allowed to laugh with your mates at work about it. Seems harsh.

[Gejon 2]

Her contracted hours are 8 - 4:30 on a Friday as are mine. Yes a little flexibility but continual lateness due to flexibility for her own cirumstances, i.e dropping the boyfriend off at the station, isnt that taking the piss? If your hours are set, then IMO you dont change them to suit you. Its a piss take, and especially as the scatty cunt doesnt make her hours up.

 

We all need a break during the working day, we would go fucking mental if not. We would be like battery hens. BUT Is it acceptable to come in 15-20mins late, go make a coffee and then gab for another 5-10mins before thinking about turing on her fucking PC? No its fucking not at all. Its taking the piss.

 

So, am I bitching? Yes, because her work is fucking shite and when picked out its shite there is no willingness from her to sort this out. In the past when I have had Senior engineers tell me things, Ive got my head down, grafted and worked hard to learn. She does nothing like that. She dropped several bollocks on my project.

 

The real issue...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wykikitoon 21484]

Spoke to the gaffer finally.

 

Spot on, feel better and he was aware of certain issues. He is going to speak to our immediate line manager first then take it from there.

[Gemmill 47072]

Grass!

[wykikitoon 21484]

Grass!

 

[ewerk 31588]

Trying to get the poor girl fired just before Christmas. You heartless bastard.