LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 You do realise that he won't be able to see your post? but everybody else does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Talk of finishing 4th may be a tad premature. I wonder if the old database is available ? I posted quite a few times that Pardew would put together a more mobile team that would look better on the eye and if it got a few good early results, people would get carried away ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 You see people, that's how Leazes concedes a point to you. I insisted that it's more difficult to finish 4th now and his argument (quite correctly) is that the achievements of the previous board will never be matched by the current lot. I couldnt agree more but we did just establish it is harder to finish 4th now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 14069 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 See, Leazes says he makes these predictions but can ANYONE be bothered to sift through the usual arguments to find out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) You see people, that's how Leazes concedes a point to you. I insisted that it's more difficult to finish 4th now and his argument (quite correctly) is that the achievements of the previous board will never be matched by the current lot. I couldnt agree more but we did just establish it is harder to finish 4th now. I'm pleased you agree, what I'm saying is that it ought to be possible, and there is no excuse for not attempting it instead of accepting that we have to compete alongside the likes of Bolton, Stoke, Blackburn etc, sell our best players and shop around Netto for replacements like they do. You do see the difference don't you ? Or have you accepted these lower expectations ? Which is my whole argument, that I have said for years ? As Alex and HF have also said, why does 5th top earn a booing for Fred along with 7th being failure, while 7th will be the peak for Mike Ashley, if they do it ? Which will be a complete one-off if they do. Edited November 23, 2011 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It's a good question, for me it's a mix of it being harder and us not trying as hard, if you see what I mean. We are less ambitious but we also realistically have less strength relative to others. What our current expectations ought to be is a fundamental and important point of debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It's a good question, for me it's a mix of it being harder and us not trying as hard, if you see what I mean. We are less ambitious but we also realistically have less strength relative to others. What our current expectations ought to be is a fundamental and important point of debate. sorry Chez. We had less strength than others back in 1992 too, but got there through our own efforts and determination when they decided to have a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? My view - and I've been there - is he would have been only a continuation of what went before. As it was, nobody wanted to buy the club, because it was in a shit state, staring at the 3rd division, and nobody wanted to buy it for a paltry sum of 2.5m quid, and didn't even raise half of that in a share issue [less than we got for Gazza, and Beardsley] Edited November 23, 2011 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? Don't answer a question with a question. What is your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? Don't answer a question with a question. What is your answer? It's a ridiculous hypothetical question though tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? Don't answer a question with a question. What is your answer? It's a ridiculous hypothetical question though tbf. Not especially, it's a straight, albeit hypothetical, comparison between the old board and the current owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? My view - and I've been there - is he would have been only a continuation of what went before. As it was, nobody wanted to buy the club, because it was in a shit state, staring at the 3rd division, and nobody wanted to buy it for a paltry sum of 2.5m quid, and didn't even raise half of that in a share issue [less than we got for Gazza, and Beardsley] Again, not answering my question. I fully understand what the old board did for the club when they bought us and I think all Newcastle fans are grateful for their efforts and vision in the early days. My point is that they couldn't have done that in 2007, football and the finances have moved on and I doubt whether, given the same circumstances, they would have taken us into Europe by now. It's not a defence of Ashley especially, it's more a comment that SJH would not have been able to recreate the revival of NUFC as easily in modern times. Edited November 23, 2011 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? Don't answer a question with a question. What is your answer? It's a ridiculous hypothetical question though tbf. Not especially, it's a straight, albeit hypothetical, comparison between the old board and the current owner. Well, if they hadn't bought the club when they did there's no knowing what state it would be in. However, if it you assume it was in the same position it was when Ashley bought it, they couldn't have afforded it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 However, if it you assume it was in the same position it was when Ashley bought it, they couldn't have afforded it anyway. Which is why I don't believe you can fairly compare what they did in 1991 to what has been 'achieved' under Ashley since 2007. Though Leazes is content to knock Ashley for not finishing 3rd in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 However, if it you assume it was in the same position it was when Ashley bought it, they couldn't have afforded it anyway. Which is why I don't believe you can fairly compare what they did in 1991 to what has been 'achieved' under Ashley since 2007. Though Leazes is content to knock Ashley for not finishing 3rd in the league. I don't agree with Leazes in every respect because he doesn't acknowledge what it would take now to compete at those levels, i.e. someone with loads of money coming in and spending their own cash on seriously challenging for the league. However, when you say he has a pop at Ashley for not finishing 3rd, you make it sound like we've come 4th or something. 12th's the best we've done so far. I think we'll do better this year like. He's also right in his logic that if it was easier then, it was easier for everybody else then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22185 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Leazes, if SJH and Shepherd had bought the club for the first time in May 2007, do you believe that they would have been able to achieve European football by now? Do you think if Mike Ashley had bought the club in 1992, we would have had the 15 years that we had under the previous regime ? Don't answer a question with a question. What is your answer? It's a ridiculous hypothetical question though tbf. Not especially, it's a straight, albeit hypothetical, comparison between the old board and the current owner. do we really need to drag that debate on any longer though? it's been done to death and beyond. if we all stop, maybe leazesmag will stop too. please make it stop. it's killing this board. even with leazesmag on ignore there's no escape from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 However, if it you assume it was in the same position it was when Ashley bought it, they couldn't have afforded it anyway. Which is why I don't believe you can fairly compare what they did in 1991 to what has been 'achieved' under Ashley since 2007. Though Leazes is content to knock Ashley for not finishing 3rd in the league. I don't agree with Leazes in every respect because he doesn't acknowledge what it would take now to compete at those levels, i.e. someone with loads of money coming in and spending their own cash on seriously challenging for the league. However, when you say he has a pop at Ashley for not finishing 3rd, you make it sound like we've come 4th or something. 12th's the best we've done so far. I think we'll do better this year like. He's also right in his logic that if it was easier then, it was easier for everybody else then too. Again, it's certainly not a defence of Ashley. Just an observation that SJH could not have done what he is castigating Ashley for not doing i.e. taking the league by storm. Tbh I'm beginning to lose interest in my own point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It's a good question, for me it's a mix of it being harder and us not trying as hard, if you see what I mean. We are less ambitious but we also realistically have less strength relative to others. What our current expectations ought to be is a fundamental and important point of debate. If it's such a different game now, then a comparison is only really apt in terms of how they performed amongst their peers. Hall/Shepherd came into a game that was run by millionaires using bank loans secured on assetts. They played that game better than 99% of other owners. They also realised when that jig was up and were able to sell the club to an owner more suited to the modern game - billionaires who secure spending on their own wealth. Whatever the argument about the state of the finances at the time, the club was sold for much much more than they paid in '92 and for more than other clubs were selling, outside the very top. The club was in a much better position, and a much more attractive prospect than most. Compared to their peers, the previous owners outperformed the majority. Having got into the billionaires owners game with his eyes wide open, Mike Ashley hasn't....as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 do we really need to drag that debate on any longer though? it's been done to death and beyond. if we all stop, maybe leazesmag will stop too. please make it stop. it's killing this board. even with leazesmag on ignore there's no escape from it Agreed, that's my last word on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 It was easier for everyone exactly because the playing field was more level, the fundamental point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7084 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This is like perpetually agonising over your ex lass but being stuck with your current lass. It makes everything worse and even the good bits seem tainted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 10 years ago neither city nor tottenham ( or chelsea for that matter) were anything remotely close to today. Top spots were up for grabs, today top6 is pretty much locked hence its a far bigger achievement today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This is like perpetually agonising over your ex lass but being stuck with your current lass. It makes everything worse and even the good bits seem tainted. Out of Ashley or Shepherd who would give the best soapy tit-wank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 (edited) tbf, Leazes only made a point on the current situation before Fish had a pop about him being pissed and wittering on over the same old questions. Reading it back i think Fish was pissed IIO. Edited November 23, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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