Santon > Raylor

[Tooj 17]

I don't know how that's me agreeing with Gloom like.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

how do you work out that out like tooj? it strikes me that neither of us think he's perfect but we both recognised at the time that he was much improved as a player and that he played his part in our much improved defence when we finished 5th. you just forgot saying that when you jumped in to contradict me.

[David Kelly 1245]

When Jonas was out for the Chelsea home game Taylor got torn to shreds in a 0-3 home defeat. (Granted the ref totally bottled sending Luiz off after only 5 mins in a blatant sky 4 bit of bias as I've no doubt he would've sent off Williamson/Taylor/Colo had the boot been on the other foot).

I don't think it was just Jonas not being there for the chelsea game that made him struggle. Earlier on in the season he seemed to realise he was out of position and just did his best to stay back and defend. By the time of that game he'd got more confident and started trying to attack as well. When he did this he just ended up getting raped.

He was only ever good in the same way that Perch was though. Keep it simple and try to be solid. I admit there are times when that is what's required but in the long term they always get found out.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

i thought perch was a half decent holding midfielder, not much cop at full back but he was an alright squad player. limited in what he could do but could hold position, win the ball and play the easy pass out to an attacking player when playing the "makalele role". i would have kept him on as a squad player.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[Tom 14011]

Definitely - Unless he left for first team football?

 

Seems a pointless sale.

[David Kelly 1245]

i thought perch was a half decent holding midfielder, not much cop at full back but he was an alright squad player. limited in what he could do but could hold position, win the ball and play the easy pass out to an attacking player when playing the "makalele role". i would have kept him on as a squad player.

I agree, that's exactly what Raylor is too. Neither of them are good enough to hold down a starting place in a premiership team but they are both honest players who can fill in for the odd game. More than that and we'd all be screaming for them to be replaced.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

raylor's got a bit more about him in terms of crossing and shooting. agree that both have limited football 'brains'.

[Aeris 0]

i thought perch was a half decent holding midfielder, not much cop at full back but he was an alright squad player. limited in what he could do but could hold position, win the ball and play the easy pass out to an attacking player when playing the "makalele role". i would have kept him on as a squad player.

Not much of a player tbh, you're only saying that because you are dumbfound of how hard it is for us to get a new player to replace the ones we sell. Not many PL clubs would've kept him after the performances he showed last season, my guess is none, not even Sunderland who are the shittiest club in this league.

 

At Wigan he's mainly being used as a DC, so not even them rate him much as a midfielder.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Aeris

[Tom 14011]

Santon made the Sky Sports Team on the week.

 

Davide Santon - Newcastle

Santon: Back in form

Santon had made a fine start to the season in the left-back position for Newcastle, but struggled in the recent 3-2 defeats by Hull and Everton. However, the Italian looked back to his best at Cardiff, making five interceptions over the course of 90 minutes - no Toon player made more. Santon also combined well with goal hero Loic Remy down the flank and with big games coming up after the international break, the Magpies will need him to stay at his best.

 

[Tom 14011]

Here's his IBWM report card -

 

DAVIDE SANTON

Davide Santon 22 Defender Newcastle United Italy

2013 has been…

Divisive. Here at IBWM Towers we only ever argue about two things; music and Davide Santon.

On one side you have one of the editors who for argument’s sake we’ll call ‘Jeff’. He reckons in time Santon will be a mainstay of the Italy defence and a potential future international captain. ‘Jeff’ also believes that music was shot repeatedly in the mid-nineties and has been struggling through a long and drawn out death ever since.

On the other side is another one of the editing team who for arguments sake we’ll call ‘Dave’. He has never seen Santon as anything other than bang average and questions his inclusion in the 100 at least once a month, which then starts the argument anew. ‘Dave’ also loves Biology by Girls Aloud.

So where does the truth lay? Well, as ever with such things, probably somewhere in between. On paper he’s come through last season as statistically one of the best in his position in the league at what has been, at times, a basket case of a club. The problem is when watching him those good stats aren’t always born out by the performance; a reluctance to shoot in good positions, an oft-wasted final ball, a mistimed challenge, a failure to pick the right run both in defence and attack, repeat to fade.

But there is also much to admire in his game, a willingness to take the ball and carry it forward always evident and his great pace makes most defensive situations recoverable and attacking positions dangerous. He has also achieved a good level of consistency - a 6 out of 10 player week in and week out - and while that may not be setting hipster hearts a flutter he’s often been good in a side that have often been bad. Regardless of the arguments this is a good player but one with faults in his game, age and experience will bring better decisions and smooth over some of the rougher edges.

So a steady 12 months and we’ll call it a C to stop our editing team from fighting. Now if we could only get them to agree on the office radio station.

What next?

When Santon first emerged onto the scene at Inter there was a huge buzz around a player with composure far beyond his tender years. Injury and form burst the bubble in equal measure but his consistency has not gone unnoticed in Italy. AC Milan may not be shopping in Beverly Hills anymore but they are still a name that carries huge weight in the football world and they maintain an interest in bringing him back to his home country.

An international call-up would also surely court more admiring glances from Serie A and we hope Cesare Prandelli is sending a scout to St James Park (we will never call it the Sports Direct Arena or the Joe Kinnear Thunderdome) to check on him. It may be that this summer is his last in England, particularly if he can raise that 6 out of 10 to a seven and get closer to the World Cup squad. Both for and against in the IBWM camp will look on with great interest, after all they both have money and pride on what happens next…

“Brilliant” – ‘Jeff’, IBWM

“Rubbish” – ‘Dave’, IBWM

“Overlooked by the Azzurri, he seems to have gotten lost under a mass of Joe Kinnear jokes at Newcastle. Deserves closer attention as he blossoms into one of the most underrated fullbacks around” – Adam Digby, ESPN

"The Italian full-back has had more touches in the Premier League this season than any other Newcastle United player (809)." - Opta

C Good progress, good player, anything more than that? Yet to be seen

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

So @Chezgiven, why do you think Pardew keeps subbing Santon with 20 minutes to go?

 

Seems a waste of a substitution.

 

 

[BigWalrus 0]

Against West Ham, it was because their forward line became 3 tall strikers. It became more a battle of height and aerial ability, and Dummett is pretty strong in the air.

[The Fish 10857]

It's a shame Pardew didn't have more faith in Haidara/Dummet as I'd liked to have seen Santon have a few games playing as an orthodox right back, instead of the inverted LB.

[ewerk 30616]

So @@ChezGiven, why do you think Pardew keeps subbing Santon with 20 minutes to go?

 

Seems a waste of a substitution.

Does he?

[Happy Face 29]

Does he?

 

I mentioned in the match thread we keep replacing LB in the last 20 minutes. Think CT has misunderstood and misrepresented that as Santon being dragged off.

 

West ham - Dummet on 74

Man City - Haidara on 82

WBA - Haidara on 76

Arsenal - Haidara on 79

Stoke - Haidara on 61

Southampton - Haidara on 78

Swansea - Haidara on 56

 

More often than not Santon makes way (green), but not always.

 

I just can't see the tactical need for changing your LB in the late stages just about every game. Ben Arfa coming on to change something in attack game after game is all well and good, If Santon has had a shocker and we are under the cosh in a game or two...fine. But Pardew seems to be using some very tight games just to have a look at his options when they're still in the balance. It's becoming very predictable with little visible benefit in the specific games being contested.

 

Desmond Tutu tried to say it was down to colccini's injury which is clearly bollocks, not only in terms of common sense, but also because it's a move that pre-dates Coloccini's injury.

 

He may be cultivating competition for the place, but I see it doing Santon more harm than the other lads any good. They could have been given more game time at LB if he's put Santon in at RB, but he seems set against that.

[Happy Face 29]

...sometimes it could be argued that they offer better cover for Ben Arfa than Santon would...but it's rare that Ben Arfa is deployed on the left when he gets on.

[ewerk 30616]

I didn't realise that it was Santon who got the hook so often, I thought it was normally done in order to push Santon further up the field when we're chasing the game. Which it may have been on occasion but evidently not every time.

[BigWalrus 0]

There must be some sort of logic behind taking the LB off so often. I don't fully understand it, but it's too frequent to just be a coincidence.

[ChezGiven 0]

West Ham were starting to exploit us down the right in the second half. I think it's a mix of Santon not playing well enough, tactical pressure down that flank and wanting to give everyone a signal. If Pardew thinks Santon is not coping with an increasing focus on his flank then I disagree 100% with HF's typically blinkered view that it's Pardew pissing about in tight games. It's just as easily see as shoring up an emerging weakness. He keeps starting him presumably because he sees it as a dip in form and doesn't want drop him.

[ChezGiven 0]

Oh and btw

[Rayvin 5223]

West Ham were starting to exploit us down the right in the second half. I think it's a mix of Santon not playing well enough, tactical pressure down that flank and wanting to give everyone a signal. If Pardew thinks Santon is not coping with an increasing focus on his flank then I disagree 100% with HF's typically blinkered view that it's Pardew pissing about in tight games. It's just as easily see as shoring up an emerging weakness. He keeps starting him presumably because he sees it as a dip in form and doesn't want drop him.

 

I don't really know enough of this debate to say if this is right, but it's well reasoned and makes sense to me.

[Happy Face 29]

West Ham were starting to exploit us down the right in the second half. I think it's a mix of Santon not playing well enough, tactical pressure down that flank and wanting to give everyone a signal. If Pardew thinks Santon is not coping with an increasing focus on his flank then I disagree 100% with HF's typically blinkered view that it's Pardew pissing about in tight games. It's just as easily see as shoring up an emerging weakness. He keeps starting him presumably because he sees it as a dip in form and doesn't want drop him.

 

Like I said, it doesn't seem to me to be about Santon at the moment. Half the time he leaves Santon on. He's just giving Haidara/Dummet a run out in just about every game. Whether we're cruising to a 5-1 win against Stoke or a goal down to Arsenal. There's no consideration of how a game is going at all, he just wants to look at those other lads.

[ewerk 30616]

And yet has played MYM at RB rather than move Santon and give either Haidara or Dummet a start.

[ClubSpinDoctor 0]

Physio room has him fit in a couple of weeks. Gets some stick off some of our supporters but I'm looking forward to having him back.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Can see pardew fancying dummet ahead of him