Happy Face 29 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Several foreign-owned Premier League clubs want to scrap relegation, according to League Managers Association (LMA) chief Richard Bevan. If more clubs are sold to foreigner investors, they may have enough votes to force through the change. But Bevan hopes that a government-led inquiry can help prevent the proposal. "We're very keen that the report is successful in helping the Football Association introduce a licensing programme for clubs," he said. "Because there are a number of overseas-owned clubs already talking about bringing about the avoidance of promotion and relegation in the Premier League. "If we have four or five more new owners, that could happen." Nearly half of the Premier League's 20 clubs are under foreign ownership, with rules stipulating that if changes are to be made to the format, 14 clubs must vote in favour of any new reforms. Blackburn joined the likes of Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool and Chelsea in this class when they were taken over by Indian-owned Venky's Group last season. The claim by LMA chief executive Bevan comes a week after the government demanded changes to the way that football is run. Sports minister Hugh Robertson said that an FA-led licensing system would be brought in to safeguard against issues such as financial mismanagement, asset-stripping owners and tax avoidance. The government also asked for rules to manage club debts and an overhaul of the FA board. Last Wednesday, Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre also said the Premier League's overseas television revenues should be skewed in favour of big clubs. More to follow. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15336398.stm Our lord and saviour on a segway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Good news for us this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30598 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I assumed that this was going to be from the Daily Mash. Unfortunately not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsweeney 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Bet it's Liverpoo again and that Yank owner. As much as can be said against the likes of Abromovich and Mansour (or however you pronounce his name), I'm sure they understand the concept of the League system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Ellis Short tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsweeney 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yes, good call. But again ... a Yank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Someone rang World Football Phone In last week and ask Wheelock if the MLS would ever bring in promotion and relegation to spice it up a bit. He said Americans just don't get it, so I'm guessing where most of the foreign owners involved in this come from.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsweeney 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Not really the place to say it and it's very out of the blue and has fuck all to do with the topic ... but I'll just go ahead and say it anyway. Above all teams, I most definitely think that Liverpool is the absolute worst of them all. I can't stand that club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) Someone rang World Football Phone In last week and ask Wheelock if the MLS would ever bring in promotion and relegation to spice it up a bit. He said Americans just don't get it, so I'm guessing where most of the foreign owners involved in this come from.. Wheelock is a twit. Americans get promotion/relegation. Hell, it's the idee fixe of the vast majority of the fans over here. Half of them are convinced it's the way to solve all of our problems. Even the owners get it. The thing that they ALSO get, though, is that in MLS, where the investors pay $40 million for the right to have an expansion team, built from scratch, they aren't keen to risk that huge franchise fee since first year teams are rarely any good. Doesn't make as much of a difference in a league where the teams are all old and established. I also don't see how it ultimately benefits a team like Liverpool, Arsenal or Manchester United, who are the big American-owned teams. They aren't in danger of relegation, and those owners know well enough that if they stop winning, the money isn't going to flow so freely. I just don't see the benefit of more predictable gates as being worthwhile to them. Far more likely it's the lower end clubs who are yo-yoing a bit too much for financial stability. Edited October 17, 2011 by Zathras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't think this is true really, most of the people who love English football love our system, and something like this always gets made up about every month to remind the league of the "dangers" of foreign ownership. It's just not gonna happen, it'd be like 17 Englishmen buying NFL teams, and on a whim deciding that they should have an NFL-1 and an NFL-2 with direct promotion/relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Alright there? The name's Tex!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Alright there? The name's Tex!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Gartside suggested this a couple of years ago so it's not just foreign owners. It won't happen anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Someone rang World Football Phone In last week and ask Wheelock if the MLS would ever bring in promotion and relegation to spice it up a bit. He said Americans just don't get it, so I'm guessing where most of the foreign owners involved in this come from.. Wheelock is a twit. Americans get promotion/relegation. Hell, it's the idee fixe of the vast majority of the fans over here. Half of them are convinced it's the way to solve all of our problems. Even the owners get it. The thing that they ALSO get, though, is that in MLS, where the investors pay $40 million for the right to have an expansion team, built from scratch, they aren't keen to risk that huge franchise fee since first year teams are rarely any good. Doesn't make as much of a difference in a league where the teams are all old and established. I also don't see how it ultimately benefits a team like Liverpool, Arsenal or Manchester United, who are the big American-owned teams. They aren't in danger of relegation, and those owners know well enough that if they stop winning, the money isn't going to flow so freely. I just don't see the benefit of more predictable gates as being worthwhile to them. Far more likely it's the lower end clubs who are yo-yoing a bit too much for financial stability. How far do you think MLS is from Introducing promotion and relegation? Think it will ever happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 "Alright there? The name's Tex!" "Text?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Someone rang World Football Phone In last week and ask Wheelock if the MLS would ever bring in promotion and relegation to spice it up a bit. He said Americans just don't get it, so I'm guessing where most of the foreign owners involved in this come from.. Wheelock is a twit. Americans get promotion/relegation. Hell, it's the idee fixe of the vast majority of the fans over here. Half of them are convinced it's the way to solve all of our problems. Even the owners get it. The thing that they ALSO get, though, is that in MLS, where the investors pay $40 million for the right to have an expansion team, built from scratch, they aren't keen to risk that huge franchise fee since first year teams are rarely any good. Doesn't make as much of a difference in a league where the teams are all old and established. I also don't see how it ultimately benefits a team like Liverpool, Arsenal or Manchester United, who are the big American-owned teams. They aren't in danger of relegation, and those owners know well enough that if they stop winning, the money isn't going to flow so freely. I just don't see the benefit of more predictable gates as being worthwhile to them. Far more likely it's the lower end clubs who are yo-yoing a bit too much for financial stability. How far do you think MLS is from Introducing promotion and relegation? Think it will ever happen? The league is currently at 18 teams and is planning to add two more and then stop for a while. I can't see it happening any time soon. Garber (MLS Commissioner) has gone on record as being committed to the playoff structure, which just makes sense in the US, even if the "hard core" fans will still try to pump up the Supporters' Shield (League Championship.) So long as they continue with the playoff structure and the split conferences, I don't see anything like Promotion and relegation happening. What is slightly more conceivable would be a situation where you end up with a dual-tiered MLS with 30-40 teams, but I don't really think that's very likely. I'm not sure a system like Baseball has with minor-league feeder teams would develop, but there are certainly a few markets where there's significant support for the sport, but not really enough to support an MLS club. St. Louis, Atlanta, Perhaps one in Florida. If the league wants to expand into those markets, then they'd have to create some smaller-budgeted alternative, but again, I don't see that happening within the next 10 years or more. Still, you never know. There are three Canadian teams in the league next year, but the Canadian Federation is trying to come up with a model for a Division 2 league. I can't see that being sustainable without Montreal, Vancouver or Toronto in it, but perhaps combining places like Calgary, Minnesota, Atlanta, and St. Louis you could get enough sustainable markets, but the travel costs would be enormous. The geography is just too great for it to work, IMO. I think it all comes down to money. Once expansion stops, if the owners want to try to continue to expand, perhaps they'll try to use that "second division" as a place for new owners to come in, and try to prove their ability to sell tickets before hitting the big time. Since they'd have by then established the previously existing teams, they might be more open to allowing new teams and new markets as a result, but I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Someone rang World Football Phone In last week and ask Wheelock if the MLS would ever bring in promotion and relegation to spice it up a bit. He said Americans just don't get it, so I'm guessing where most of the foreign owners involved in this come from.. Wheelock is a twit. Americans get promotion/relegation. Hell, it's the idee fixe of the vast majority of the fans over here. Half of them are convinced it's the way to solve all of our problems. Even the owners get it. The thing that they ALSO get, though, is that in MLS, where the investors pay $40 million for the right to have an expansion team, built from scratch, they aren't keen to risk that huge franchise fee since first year teams are rarely any good. Doesn't make as much of a difference in a league where the teams are all old and established. I also don't see how it ultimately benefits a team like Liverpool, Arsenal or Manchester United, who are the big American-owned teams. They aren't in danger of relegation, and those owners know well enough that if they stop winning, the money isn't going to flow so freely. I just don't see the benefit of more predictable gates as being worthwhile to them. Far more likely it's the lower end clubs who are yo-yoing a bit too much for financial stability. How far do you think MLS is from Introducing promotion and relegation? Think it will ever happen? The league is currently at 18 teams and is planning to add two more and then stop for a while. I can't see it happening any time soon. Garber (MLS Commissioner) has gone on record as being committed to the playoff structure, which just makes sense in the US, even if the "hard core" fans will still try to pump up the Supporters' Shield (League Championship.) So long as they continue with the playoff structure and the split conferences, I don't see anything like Promotion and relegation happening. What is slightly more conceivable would be a situation where you end up with a dual-tiered MLS with 30-40 teams, but I don't really think that's very likely. I'm not sure a system like Baseball has with minor-league feeder teams would develop, but there are certainly a few markets where there's significant support for the sport, but not really enough to support an MLS club. St. Louis, Atlanta, Perhaps one in Florida. If the league wants to expand into those markets, then they'd have to create some smaller-budgeted alternative, but again, I don't see that happening within the next 10 years or more. Still, you never know. There are three Canadian teams in the league next year, but the Canadian Federation is trying to come up with a model for a Division 2 league. I can't see that being sustainable without Montreal, Vancouver or Toronto in it, but perhaps combining places like Calgary, Minnesota, Atlanta, and St. Louis you could get enough sustainable markets, but the travel costs would be enormous. The geography is just too great for it to work, IMO. I think it all comes down to money. Once expansion stops, if the owners want to try to continue to expand, perhaps they'll try to use that "second division" as a place for new owners to come in, and try to prove their ability to sell tickets before hitting the big time. Since they'd have by then established the previously existing teams, they might be more open to allowing new teams and new markets as a result, but I doubt it. Surely a "Second Division North" etc would work, kinda like the Blue Square over here, with the winners of each second division fighting in a playoff esque sorta thing, sounds right up Americas street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Surely a "Second Division North" etc would work, kinda like the Blue Square over here, with the winners of each second division fighting in a playoff esque sorta thing, sounds right up Americas street A playoff for a championship, sure, and I'm sure owners of lower division teams would be happy to hit the big time. Selling the owners on the teams potentially relegated is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TicTacWoe 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Getting rid of relegation would be an utter disaster cutting out about 50% of the excitement of the season as a whole. Teams like Blackburn would be damaged by such a move (despite the fact that they're idiot owners probably back the idea) as for most of the season they'll have absolutely nothing to play for and crowds will go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it's nonsense and won't happen. Take away relegation and the Prem becomes pointless for half the teams, and removes a big chunk of the end of season excitement. Damaging the product isn't in the interest of the top teams which have no risk of relegation anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it's nonsense and won't happen. Take away relegation and the Prem becomes pointless for half the teams, and removes a big chunk of the end of season excitement. Damaging the product isn't in the interest of the top teams which have no risk of relegation anyway. While I agree it's not a good idea, just looking at the way teams in the US are run in closed leagues shows that you can very easily make a profit off of a shitty team which finishes dead last for 20 years running if you don't have to worry about relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TicTacWoe 0 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it's nonsense and won't happen. Take away relegation and the Prem becomes pointless for half the teams, and removes a big chunk of the end of season excitement. Damaging the product isn't in the interest of the top teams which have no risk of relegation anyway. While I agree it's not a good idea, just looking at the way teams in the US are run in closed leagues shows that you can very easily make a profit off of a shitty team which finishes dead last for 20 years running if you don't have to worry about relegation. But they don't have the massive outgoings on wages that the EPL clubs have. Most of the MLS players (apart from the designated players) are on lower championship-league 1 wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zathras 244 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it's nonsense and won't happen. Take away relegation and the Prem becomes pointless for half the teams, and removes a big chunk of the end of season excitement. Damaging the product isn't in the interest of the top teams which have no risk of relegation anyway. While I agree it's not a good idea, just looking at the way teams in the US are run in closed leagues shows that you can very easily make a profit off of a shitty team which finishes dead last for 20 years running if you don't have to worry about relegation. But they don't have the massive outgoings on wages that the EPL clubs have. Most of the MLS players (apart from the designated players) are on lower championship-league 1 wages. Most MLS players are WELL below even those wages. I was talking more about MLB, where the league minimum salary is $414,000. On a roster of 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 It'll never happen, surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think it's nonsense and won't happen. Take away relegation and the Prem becomes pointless for half the teams, and removes a big chunk of the end of season excitement. Damaging the product isn't in the interest of the top teams which have no risk of relegation anyway. While I agree it's not a good idea, just looking at the way teams in the US are run in closed leagues shows that you can very easily make a profit off of a shitty team which finishes dead last for 20 years running if you don't have to worry about relegation. But they don't have the massive outgoings on wages that the EPL clubs have. Most of the MLS players (apart from the designated players) are on lower championship-league 1 wages. Most MLS players are WELL below even those wages. I was talking more about MLB, where the league minimum salary is $414,000. On a roster of 25. After looking at the way the players unions of the NFL and NBA have nearly led to the demise of both their leagues seasons (NBA's still could be) I think the players over there get too much, much worse situation than the Premier League imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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