More Respect for MA?

[McFaul 35]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

[Toonpack 9422]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

[ChezGiven 0]

Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time.

 

Well stop spinning events negatively Chez, give it a chance....

 

Cant believe this is happening. I thought we were slowly becoming a normal club again.

 

If he appoints Pardew i want NUST to **** the fat cunt.

 

http://www.toontasti...21

 

;)

Cheers mate, shows me to be consistent with what i am saying. That events that seemed bad at the time, might turn out well and when they do you should accept that, not desperately hold on to whatever it made you think at the time (unless you've got an agenda i suppose).

 

I did apologise for saying grow up but thats what it looks like sometimes, big bairns bleating because we're not Barcelona.

[McFaul 35]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

[ChezGiven 0]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

We were 2 rungs further up the ladder than Spurs anyway, Chelsea and Man City were behind us too. Liverpool were ahead and Spurs were just behind. We got relegated and have had a shite time and Spurs have been ahead for a few years now. Alright, we lost out, like losing a match against anybody, it can happen. The issue isnt thats its happened, it whether we can get past them again. Spurs were ahead of us in the 80s, we were ahead of them in the 90s, for some of the last decade we were ahead of them, now they are ahead of us. LM's perspective on us is just like Parky on 2012 tbh.

[Toonpack 9422]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Do you understand the principle of debits and credits ???

Edited October 21, 2011 by Toonpack

[McFaul 35]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ???

Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance?

[The Fish 10857]

Can aiming for 7th not just be the ambition until it's achieved? I mean, Under the previous regime, I'm guessing when they installed Robson, they didn't expect us to get to the Champions League so quickly. I'm guessing their ambition would have been stability in the Premier League, then pushing on from there into Top half of the table, then Europe, then then then

 

It seems to me that the over-riding aims of all owners are the same; success. Each club has to measure the success possible against the current climate and their individual means. Whelan would love Wigan to get into the CL and he believes the best way for them to progress in this league is to scout for cheap foreign players and have them push them up the league or sell them at a decent profit to swell the coffers. This doesn't mean he's lacking ambition, just that he's managing expectations. Should Newcastle rbe run the same way? Not really, we're more solidly founded and we've a much larger revenue stream.

 

Man U's ambition is to win. Everything. They can do this by scouring the world for the best players at a price they're willing to pay. So Young, Jones, Hernandez were all expensive, but (in Man U's eyes) good value... does this mean that Newcastle should be going for the same players? Of course not. That would be fool hardy. Why spend £20m on 1 centre back, when the risk is too great?

 

I appreciate where LM is coming from, it'd be great to be toe-to-toe with Man U, Chelsea, Citeh, but the cold hard facts are that without a fantastic (in the truest sense of the word) injection of finance we just can't compete like that at the moment. We would need Buffet/Gates to suddenly fancy a go at a Premier League team for us to immediately get to the same level. Even the previous regime, with their much vaunted backing of the managers, wouldn't magically have us dining at the top-table. Their transfer windows were often exciting, but more often than not, they were an eventual disappointment. Not their fault really, if it was the scouting and management team who made the suggestions and they just signed the cheque (I doubt this was the case fwiw).

 

The model that Ashley looks to be employing may not be exciting, but, objectively, it's a reasonable approach. Scout for talent, buy it cheap. This appears to be happening by either by getting them early (Abeid, Vuckic) or taking advantage of contractual clauses (Ba, Cabaye, Gosling). This way the stake is small and the risk reduced. I cannot see a problem with that? The "trophy" signings that we made which were successful are actually not that common imo. Shearer, Woodgate? Whereas the players who've been the biggest success (arguably) have come without much pomp or fanfare; Bellamy, Lee, Kilcline, Solano? So is that not an argument against the spending patterns of the previous regime and evidence in favour of the current manner?

[Toonpack 9422]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ???

Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance?

 

I wasn't talking to Chez, I was talking to you.

[McFaul 35]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ???

Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance?

 

I wasn't talking to Chez, I was talking to you.

In other words you're uncomfortable about being shown up, so you have to say something.

[Guest alex]

TP makes valid points on the financial side of things. Where I disagree with him is in his notion that the wrongs of the previous regime provide an excuse for the appalling mistakes made by the current one. I accept they're doing some things right now and it appears to be working etc. but they still haven't got the balance right for me. I think, despite Chez's flagrant attempts to words into people's mouths, most people would like a happy medium between the more reckless aspects of the Shepherd and Halls years and the austerity under Ashley.

[McFaul 35]

TP makes valid points on the financial side of things. Where I disagree with him is in his notion that the wrongs of the previous regime provide an excuse for the appalling mistakes made by the current one. I accept they're doing some things right now and it appears to be working etc. but they still haven't got the balance right for me. I think, despite Chez's flagrant attempts to words into people's mouths, most people would like a happy medium between the more reckless aspects of the Shepherd and Halls years and the austerity under Ashley.

His point about our stature and turnover being higher than it is now, dismissing it as a "fallacy", is completely uneducated and misguided.

[ewerk 30616]

 

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Aye, your facts. Which are once again wrong.

 

Spurs over took us in the 2006/7 season in terms of revenue.

 

And we've been nowhere near Liverpool in the past ten years.

[ChezGiven 0]

Can aiming for 7th not just be the ambition until it's achieved? I mean, Under the previous regime, I'm guessing when they installed Robson, they didn't expect us to get to the Champions League so quickly. I'm guessing their ambition would have been stability in the Premier League, then pushing on from there into Top half of the table, then Europe, then then then

 

It seems to me that the over-riding aims of all owners are the same; success. Each club has to measure the success possible against the current climate and their individual means. Whelan would love Wigan to get into the CL and he believes the best way for them to progress in this league is to scout for cheap foreign players and have them push them up the league or sell them at a decent profit to swell the coffers. This doesn't mean he's lacking ambition, just that he's managing expectations. Should Newcastle rbe run the same way? Not really, we're more solidly founded and we've a much larger revenue stream.

 

Man U's ambition is to win. Everything. They can do this by scouring the world for the best players at a price they're willing to pay. So Young, Jones, Hernandez were all expensive, but (in Man U's eyes) good value... does this mean that Newcastle should be going for the same players? Of course not. That would be fool hardy. Why spend £20m on 1 centre back, when the risk is too great?

 

I appreciate where LM is coming from, it'd be great to be toe-to-toe with Man U, Chelsea, Citeh, but the cold hard facts are that without a fantastic (in the truest sense of the word) injection of finance we just can't compete like that at the moment. We would need Buffet/Gates to suddenly fancy a go at a Premier League team for us to immediately get to the same level. Even the previous regime, with their much vaunted backing of the managers, wouldn't magically have us dining at the top-table. Their transfer windows were often exciting, but more often than not, they were an eventual disappointment. Not their fault really, if it was the scouting and management team who made the suggestions and they just signed the cheque (I doubt this was the case fwiw).

 

The model that Ashley looks to be employing may not be exciting, but, objectively, it's a reasonable approach. Scout for talent, buy it cheap. This appears to be happening by either by getting them early (Abeid, Vuckic) or taking advantage of contractual clauses (Ba, Cabaye, Gosling). This way the stake is small and the risk reduced. I cannot see a problem with that? The "trophy" signings that we made which were successful are actually not that common imo. Shearer, Woodgate? Whereas the players who've been the biggest success (arguably) have come without much pomp or fanfare; Bellamy, Lee, Kilcline, Solano? So is that not an argument against the spending patterns of the previous regime and evidence in favour of the current manner?

Thats about it isnt, it, not exciting but reasonable. I dont have any qualms admitting its a bit of a come down from the ambition we've seen before. The reasons why are intricate and complicated and cant be boiled down to anything concrete without looking at complex financial and economic trends.

 

I've challenged people on here to say what MA's real strategy is before (if its not what is in the mission statement) and its never been clear to me which is the alternative version. Seems to me we are doing what he says he wants to do. Now, it might be not what we want but at least he has said this is how its going to work.

[Toonpack 9422]

I wasn't defending TP I was saying just that, however it's a trend which I saw more from earlier games, I think people are beginning to warm up a bit to the team. To be fair if we

Keep the run going and then lose against man u etc then am sure there won't be any gloating.

 

to be fair Chez, you responded to a post I made where I said there was an increasing amount of posts similar to the crap posted on NO. The comment you are making here ie implying that people are waiting for the team to lose before "gloating" is exactly the sort of crap comments that became quite prominent on NO before I was banned.

 

To date, unlike some, I haven't given up supporting the team yet, and I'm not even one of the people who think exciting times are just around the corner ie mid table obscurity which is the new target.

 

I don't comment in many match threads whatever the result, I never have as a rule. And I've already started the Wigan thread by saying that win, lose or draw I may not be posting for a few days again even if I feel inclined to.

 

My stance remains. The club is in long term decline, because it is encompassing falling standards and targets [now there is a modern business cliche for you.....]. A small run of good results isn't going to change that mate.

None of you make any attempt whatsoever to be objective and assess things from a balanced perspective. Anger and resentment builds up over time, through a succession of events that are spun negatively at the time. The fact that these events dont end up being negative does not lead to people to say 'we were wrong about that'. They just search for new ways to hold on to their opinion. Happens in all walks of life, its an established and known behaviour.

 

I just try and bring some balance to things, we are going well for now, we have a new strategy, its less exciting than previous strategies but its the one we have. I dont know if it will work but i understand why we have adopted it. The things that MA has done wrong since relegation are 1) Getting rid of the singing section. The SD branding could be worth £40m, we dont know how it is positioned financially inside his head or whether there are no actual payments associated with them. Pure conjecture for now. Carroll? I'm happy. Nolan? I'm happy. Pardew? I'm happy. Enrique? Lets wait and see. Barton? Stil a bit disappointed tbh but thats life.

 

If you can get over what happened 3 seasons ago, then all i can see is a debate about ambition and if we are competing for 7th, then thats an accurate and fair representation of our status in the game financially this year.

 

People need to grow up imo. Sorry, i know that sounds terrible saying it like that buts its how i feel.

That's absolutely fine saying that, but under Shepherd we were SIGNIFICANTLY richer than Tottenham, and more or less on parity with Liverpool for many, many years. The lack of ambition and bastardisation of the club now by clueless owners mean that we really are only the seventh biggest club on those terms presently in stature and finance.

 

We weren't though, that's a falacy, our "richness" was based solely on debt, and the ability to get more debt, they made profits, we didn't, that debt came home to roost.

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Do you understand the principle of debits abd credits ???

Completely irrelevant to Chez's point of being 7th in terms of finance and stature. Explain why you ignored that, lack of understanding or ignorance?

 

I wasn't talking to Chez, I was talking to you.

In other words you're uncomfortable about being shown up, so you have to say something.

 

How have I been shown up ??

 

We were better on the pitch (for a period) than Spurs, we have never been as succesfull as Spurs or Liverpool since the 50's.

 

That's totally a different thing to "richer" than, and we have not been "richer" than them, especially Liverpool. Aye we made more money, on the income side (for a while) but the expenditure was disproportionate even to that level of income, so we had less left which = poorer than.

 

Their lesser income has sustained them a lot further than our transient richness did.

[Guest alex]

Does anyone else find it disconcerting when Fish becomes the voice of reason?

[McFaul 35]

 

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Aye, your facts. Which are once again wrong.

 

Spurs over took us in the 2006/7 season in terms of revenue.

 

And we've been nowhere near Liverpool in the past ten years.

2007, so I was one year out. As for Liverpool??? Really? http://edition.cnn.com/2004/SPORT/football/03/03/england.richest.reut/

[Toonpack 9422]

TP makes valid points on the financial side of things. Where I disagree with him is in his notion that the wrongs of the previous regime provide an excuse for the appalling mistakes made by the current one. I accept they're doing some things right now and it appears to be working etc. but they still haven't got the balance right for me. I think, despite Chez's flagrant attempts to words into people's mouths, most people would like a happy medium between the more reckless aspects of the Shepherd and Halls years and the austerity under Ashley.

 

Whoa !!! I don't provide excuses, well I don't think I do. I provide what I consider potential reasoning behind certain behaviours, mainly on the fiscal side admittedly.

 

I cannot excuse or understand Kinnear for example. I didn't understand Hughton getting sacked at the time, although now it appears a good decision. I thought the whole KK/Wise thing was a shambles.

[Happy Face 29]

I've challenged people on here to say what MA's real strategy is before (if its not what is in the mission statement) and its never been clear to me which is the alternative version. Seems to me we are doing what he says he wants to do. Now, it might be not what we want but at least he has said this is how its going to work.

 

I've never doubted Ashley's honesty in conveying his strategy, however it has changed through time (except maybe when he said his strategy was to sell up, I never believed that).

 

I've consistently doubted his ability and still do. Seen little to suggest he's approaching things any differently to 3 years ago.

[McFaul 35]

 

 

How have I been shown up ??

 

We were better on the pitch (for a period) than Spurs, we have never been as succesfull as Spurs or Liverpool since the 50's.

 

That's totally a different thing to "richer" than, and we have not been "richer" than them, especially Liverpool. Aye we made more money, on the income side (for a while) but the expenditure was disproportionate even to that level of income, so we had less left which = poorer than.

 

Their lesser income has sustained them a lot further than our transient richness did.

 

When have Tottenham ever fucking looked like winning the title since 1961? We've seriously competed for it at least four times in the last 16 years. FA Cups and UEFA Cups, anyone can win them look at Portsmouth or Ipswich. Tottenham haven't been one of the big boys for 50 years, and won't be so you're talking shit there. As for money generated like I say for most of the last 20 years we've been significantly richer than Tottenham and now the tables have turned, accelerated by this regime.

[Toonpack 9422]

TP makes valid points on the financial side of things. Where I disagree with him is in his notion that the wrongs of the previous regime provide an excuse for the appalling mistakes made by the current one. I accept they're doing some things right now and it appears to be working etc. but they still haven't got the balance right for me. I think, despite Chez's flagrant attempts to words into people's mouths, most people would like a happy medium between the more reckless aspects of the Shepherd and Halls years and the austerity under Ashley.

His point about our stature and turnover being higher than it is now, dismissing it as a "fallacy", is completely uneducated and misguided.

 

You don't even comprehend what I said

 

Stature > Liverpool - never

Staure > Spurs - for a time

 

Turnover is ONLY one side of the coin.

[Happy Face 29]

Does anyone else find it disconcerting when Fish becomes the voice of reason?

 

With a wholly unreasonable, negative and petulant sig dating back 3 years.

[Guest alex]

TP makes valid points on the financial side of things. Where I disagree with him is in his notion that the wrongs of the previous regime provide an excuse for the appalling mistakes made by the current one. I accept they're doing some things right now and it appears to be working etc. but they still haven't got the balance right for me. I think, despite Chez's flagrant attempts to words into people's mouths, most people would like a happy medium between the more reckless aspects of the Shepherd and Halls years and the austerity under Ashley.

 

Whoa !!! I don't provide excuses, well I don't think I do. I provide what I consider potential reasoning behind certain behaviours, mainly on the fiscal side admittedly.

 

I cannot excuse or understand Kinnear for example. I didn't understand Hughton getting sacked at the time, although now it appears a good decision. I thought the whole KK/Wise thing was a shambles.

When average league position was brought up (by you) I seem to remember you saying we were already in a terminal decline. Or words to that effect. That, to me at least, would seem to attribute (a wholly avoidable imo) relegation imo to the previous regime (at least in part). That's what I was getting at.

Edited October 21, 2011 by alex

[ChezGiven 0]

I've challenged people on here to say what MA's real strategy is before (if its not what is in the mission statement) and its never been clear to me which is the alternative version. Seems to me we are doing what he says he wants to do. Now, it might be not what we want but at least he has said this is how its going to work.

 

I've never doubted Ashley's honesty in conveying his strategy, however it has changed through time (except maybe when he said his strategy was to sell up, I never believed that).

 

I've consistently doubted his ability and still do. Seen little to suggest he's approaching things any differently to 3 years ago.

I agree with all of that, even the last bit. The difference (perhaps) being, i think he has started to work out how to execute it properly.

[ewerk 30616]

 

Why lie? Our turnover was ALWAYS larger than Tottenham's till 2008, it was generally on parity with Liverpool give or take £10m up to around the time they won the Champions League. They've moved forward we went significantly backwards, I'm not on about just on the pitch but as a money making business. There are facts available that can't even be argued with but you don't have the intelligence to understand the importance of money making for any business, and on those terms from being £25m in front of Tottenham, this season we will be approximately £25m behind them. Do you have the intelligence to comprehend that?

 

Aye, your facts. Which are once again wrong.

 

Spurs over took us in the 2006/7 season in terms of revenue.

 

And we've been nowhere near Liverpool in the past ten years.

2007, so I was one year out. As for Liverpool??? Really? http://edition.cnn.c...d.richest.reut/

 

Aye, talk about cherry picking your figures. How about the following season when we were €50m behind them?