Can't stop looking at the premiership league table

[DEADMAN 0]

were doing great so far but lets not get carried away

[Guest alex]

Wise words, Deadman.

[The Fish 10776]

Just to be an arse, it is possible we have a worse side than last year and still finish higher in the league. The assumption seems to be that the league is somehow fixed and we're the only variable. It's perfectly reasonable to say we got 1 worse, but other teams around us got 3 worse.

 

Not saying this is the case, fwiw I now think this squad is better than last seasons, I'm just making a point.

[DEADMAN 0]

yea but just cause where 4th dont mean we will be there long as others will push for wins

[Guest alex]

Just to be an arse, it is possible we have a worse side than last year and still finish higher in the league. The assumption seems to be that the league is somehow fixed and we're the only variable. It's perfectly reasonable to say we got 1 worse, but other teams around us got 3 worse.

 

Not saying this is the case, fwiw I now think this squad is better than last seasons, I'm just making a point.

That's purely subjective though which is why I made the point about results being the only way to make an objective judgement. That said, if the improved league position is only marginal then it's nothing to get too excited about. Similar to last season when we were seconds away from a top half finish, etc. Big deal tbh. The league was so tight a top half finish would've been a negligible achievement (relative to where we actually ended up).

[Barney 0]

To expand on from HF, PP and Chez were on about :

Perspective is always in short supply in the opening weeks of the season, but last week Liverpool fan Dan Kennett provided an interesting take on the race for fourth.

 

He suggests that based on last season’s results, Liverpool and Spurs are exceeding expectations, whilst Arsenal are faltering. The measurement is simple: what is the difference in points between results this season and the exact same games last season?

 

The metric somewhat accounts for difficult fixture lists to start the season (see Bolton), and is essentially a simple way of assessing a team’s progress.

 

For example, Blackburn have won four points from seven games this season. From the corresponding games last season, Rovers collected nine points, a negative difference of five. We get the relative points change by dividing this by the number of games Blackburn have played, ignoring matches against promoted teams.

 

Across the division, we get a sense of who is improving and who might be going backwards.

The table highlights Newcastle as the overachievers thus far; whilst this is already indicated by the regular league table, it contradicts criticism that they have had it easy so far. Alan Pardew’s team has managed to improve in beating ‘weaker’ teams when they may have stumbled last season, a sure sign of progress.

 

At the bottom, Arsenal’s reversals against Liverpool, Blackburn and Spurs were all worse results than the corresponding fixtures in 2010/11, leaving them rock bottom in this regard.

 

Title contenders Chelsea and Man United may have made strong starts to the season, but this is perhaps no more than we’d expect given the games they’ve played. Equally Bolton’s home point against Man United last season was the only difference between results over the two seasons thus far (ignoring results versus promoted teams).

 

Needless to say there are a number of factors unaccounted for, not least form, injuries and ‘freak’ results – should Wolves’ win at Anfield last season work against them in the league table above? – but it’s an uncomplicated way of quantifying results relative to expectations. The numbers shouldn’t be interpreted for any serious analysis, merely act as food for thought.

[manc-mag 1]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

[The Fish 10776]

Just to be an arse, it is possible we have a worse side than last year and still finish higher in the league. The assumption seems to be that the league is somehow fixed and we're the only variable. It's perfectly reasonable to say we got 1 worse, but other teams around us got 3 worse.

 

Not saying this is the case, fwiw I now think this squad is better than last seasons, I'm just making a point.

That's purely subjective though which is why I made the point about results being the only way to make an objective judgement. That said, if the improved league position is only marginal then it's nothing to get too excited about. Similar to last season when we were seconds away from a top half finish, etc. Big deal tbh. The league was so tight a top half finish would've been a negligible achievement (relative to where we actually ended up).

 

I like Pud's idea of comparing promoted sides for those they replaced, but I don't it necessarily stacks up. I know it's a rough approximation, but I'd be curious to see a team by team comparison to last year. sunderland (for example) aren't half the side they were and Man City are twice the team they were. A formula where a home win against a team in bracket A is worth so much and an away draw something else... I doubt I making much sense to anyone, but I know what I mean and I'm sure the more mathematically creative on here could gleam from my ramblings what I mean and mock something up?

 

Brackets like this?

 

A

Man U

Man City

 

B

Chelsea

 

C

Liverpool

Arsenal

Spurs

 

D

Everton

Villa

Stoke

Fulham

 

E

West Brom

Bolton

Wolves

Wigan

QPR

sunderland

 

F

Norwich

Swansea

Blackburn

 

 

I dunno, pretty bored

[Happy Face 29]

Just to be an arse, it is possible we have a worse side than last year and still finish higher in the league. The assumption seems to be that the league is somehow fixed and we're the only variable. It's perfectly reasonable to say we got 1 worse, but other teams around us got 3 worse.

 

Not saying this is the case, fwiw I now think this squad is better than last seasons, I'm just making a point.

That's purely subjective though which is why I made the point about results being the only way to make an objective judgement. That said, if the improved league position is only marginal then it's nothing to get too excited about. Similar to last season when we were seconds away from a top half finish, etc. Big deal tbh. The league was so tight a top half finish would've been a negligible achievement (relative to where we actually ended up).

 

I like Pud's idea of comparing promoted sides for those they replaced, but I don't it necessarily stacks up. I know it's a rough approximation, but I'd be curious to see a team by team comparison to last year. sunderland (for example) aren't half the side they were and Man City are twice the team they were. A formula where a home win against a team in bracket A is worth so much and an away draw something else... I doubt I making much sense to anyone, but I know what I mean and I'm sure the more mathematically creative on here could gleam from my ramblings what I mean and mock something up?

 

Brackets like this?

 

A

Man U

Man City

 

B

Chelsea

 

C

Liverpool

Arsenal

Spurs

 

D

Everton

Villa

Stoke

Fulham

 

E

West Brom

Bolton

Wolves

Wigan

QPR

sunderland

 

F

Norwich

Swansea

Blackburn

 

 

I dunno, pretty bored

 

makes sense. Similar to what I was saying in the revenue comparison thread. Rather than comparing specific teams (man you, spurs etc) best to compared against whichever team is currently in a specific position.

 

So our win against wolves on Saturday was 2 points better than last season.

 

But they're 14th now, and 14th last season was Bolton. So our away result against 14th place is 3 points better cos they trounced us.

 

None of it's an exact science, but however you cut it I think we're a lot better off.

[LeazesMag 0]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

 

why don't you answer the question Sammy boy ? Go on, be a Devil and give us the benefit of your intelligence and judgement ? Did you have a good weekend ? I did, I had a good weekend in Wolverhampton. Go on man, tell us all what a smart lad like you thinks the future of the toon is ? We won't call you a thick cunt if you get anything wrong ?

 

Edited October 4, 2011 by LeazesMag

[The Fish 10776]

Leazes, ever heard the phrase "those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"?

 

[manc-mag 1]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

 

why don't you answer the question Sammy boy ? Go on, be a Devil and give us the benefit of your intelligence and judgement ? Did you have a good weekend ? I did, I had a good weekend in Wolverhampton. Go on man, tell us all what a smart lad like you thinks the future of the toon is ? We won't call you a thick cunt if you get anything wrong ?

 

 

How massively needy are you though? And yet I'm "obsessed". Aye, righto cos that rings true.

[Holden McGroin 6543]

Leazes on the sauce again.

 

The mods should think about putting him on an IP ban between 23:00 and 07:00 .

Edited October 5, 2011 by Holden McGroin

[LeazesMag 0]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

 

why don't you answer the question Sammy boy ? Go on, be a Devil and give us the benefit of your intelligence and judgement ? Did you have a good weekend ? I did, I had a good weekend in Wolverhampton. Go on man, tell us all what a smart lad like you thinks the future of the toon is ? We won't call you a thick cunt if you get anything wrong ?

 

 

How massively needy are you though? And yet I'm "obsessed". Aye, righto cos that rings true.

 

fairly straightforward questions Sammy boy. Go on, be controversial, give us the benefit of your massive unbeatable intelligence as you know everything about everything.

 

You can do it.

[manc-mag 1]

Bit creepy tbh.

[LeazesMag 0]

Bit creepy tbh.

 

what a knacker

[sandman02uk 0]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

 

why don't you answer the question Sammy boy ? Go on, be a Devil and give us the benefit of your intelligence and judgement ? Did you have a good weekend ? I did, I had a good weekend in Wolverhampton. Go on man, tell us all what a smart lad like you thinks the future of the toon is ? We won't call you a thick cunt if you get anything wrong ?

 

 

so does that mean that because we are doing well which is the opposite of what you've been bellowing for years that we cant call you a thick cunt??

 

fuck it, I'll risk it, thick cunt

[LeazesMag 0]

I think you have to be completely objective and say if we finish higher than last year, the team has progressed / improved. It's as simple as that really. It's not really worth worrying about selling our best players until it happens.

 

Agreed. Plus it allows you to look at us as a squad rather than a team. If the squad is weaker on balance, then claims we can put out a better starting 11 have to have less weight.

 

Obviously I hope we kick on though as I think the players are good enough to if they continue to play to the best of their abilities and get a bit of support in Jan (absolutely not banking on the latter of course).

 

but what do you think we will do Sammy ? Do you think we are a better team, or a better squad ? And do you think that Mike Ashley is on the right lines to restore the club back to one of the main challengers ?

 

Less of the bluster and hot air man.....

 

You're absolutely seething lately aren't you?

 

why don't you answer the question Sammy boy ? Go on, be a Devil and give us the benefit of your intelligence and judgement ? Did you have a good weekend ? I did, I had a good weekend in Wolverhampton. Go on man, tell us all what a smart lad like you thinks the future of the toon is ? We won't call you a thick cunt if you get anything wrong ?

 

 

so does that mean that because we are doing well which is the opposite of what you've been bellowing for years that we cant call you a thick cunt??

 

fuck it, I'll risk it, thick cunt

 

a few good results, against weaker teams in our easiest set of starting fixtures in years, blinds you to the deficiences and under-ambition of the football club ?

 

Who's the thick cunt ?

 

Did you go to Wolverhampton, and do you go to home games ? By the way, you should have complained about the moaning and whinging from people when we really were doing well ie after 38 games and not 7 or 8.

 

Those questions were directed at Sammy, who appears to think he knows everything about everything, so I'm interested in his views [because he never seems to give us any].

 

Let him answer, or bugger off.

Edited October 5, 2011 by LeazesMag

[manc-mag 1]

Leazes give over man, you're nearly 60 but you sound like you're about 9.

 

You've basically just got some massive inferiority complex at the end of the day because you keep banging on about me 'knowing everything' and being a 'self-proclaimed smart lad', despite never being able to quote me when asked to do so. You were making things up that I'd said about Pardew the other day, it was bizarre and sad in equal measure.

 

Pay attention to other people's comments if you won't listen to mine, because they're all telling you to put a cork in it.

[Dr Gloom 21846]

leazesmag should just bookmark the anti ashley craic for when our season inevitably starts to go tits up. for now, let's just enjoy the best start we've had in years and perhaps a few threads can be even be allowed to run their course without the usual attempts at point scoring.

 

who knows? the team might even turn out to exceed our wildest expectations, despite ashley's attempts to fuck it all up. they did better than we all thought they would last year.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 21846]

Leazes give over man, you're nearly 60 but you sound like you're about 9.

 

You've basically just got some massive inferiority complex at the end of the day because you keep banging on about me 'knowing everything' and being a 'self-proclaimed smart lad', despite never being able to quote me when asked to do so. You were making things up that I'd said about Pardew the other day, it was bizarre and sad in equal measure.

 

Pay attention to other people's comments if you won't listen to mine, because they're all telling you to put a cork in it.

 

put him on ignore already mate! you still end up reading reams of his posts through others' quotes but at least you'll get out of having to waste so much time engaging in his never ending 'debate'. someone else will soon take up the mantle.

[ewerk 30368]

Just to make it clear to anyone who missed it, Leazes was at the Wolves game.

 

There we go LM, hopefully everyone should now be aware of it.

[trophyshy 7073]

Just to make it clear to anyone who missed it, Leazes was at the Wolves game.

 

There we go LM, hopefully everyone should now be aware of it.

 

 

I went to an away match George, and I'm right about everything.

 

[manc-mag 1]

Leazes give over man, you're nearly 60 but you sound like you're about 9.

 

You've basically just got some massive inferiority complex at the end of the day because you keep banging on about me 'knowing everything' and being a 'self-proclaimed smart lad', despite never being able to quote me when asked to do so. You were making things up that I'd said about Pardew the other day, it was bizarre and sad in equal measure.

 

Pay attention to other people's comments if you won't listen to mine, because they're all telling you to put a cork in it.

 

put him on ignore already mate! you still end up reading reams of his posts through others' quotes but at least you'll get out of having to waste so much time engaging in his never ending 'debate'. someone else will soon take up the mantle.

 

I've never put anyone on ignore during the whole time I've used the board tbh mate. Contrary to what he says I'm far from obsessed, I just marvel at the fact it's a 60 year old bloke who could have this chip on his shoulder for so long, with so many people and with so little reason. And whatever reason he thinks he might have it's principally made up. The thing is I'm honestly laughing if I ever do bother replying, so I don't need to ignore. I agree he's incessant though and de-rails loads of threads (whether you chose to respond or not), but sadly in those cases the ignore function isnt much use because the overall thread direction ends up going that way anyway.

 

The only way it'd work imho (and I'd be prepared to do it then tbf) is if there was a consolidated approach with loads of posters ignoring him. It's been going on for years obviously but he's had a massively adverse reaction to the good start to the season combined with HF's post which exposed him as a bit of a clot (Tecato's sig) so it might actually be worth it. Can't see any other way really.

[Dr Gloom 21846]

yes. a group ignore might force him into posting about other stuff, which he can do surprisingly well when he tries. it's a shame that 99% of what he posts is the same old tired drivel that we've all read a million times. i'd actually take him off ignore if he were just to drop it and move on.