Can't stop looking at the premiership league table

[CleeToonFan 1]

If only we had kept Hughton , not that I think we'd be in a better position now, but I don't think Pardew will ever fully win me over, even now he's creating his own quality team

[Toonpack 9303]

Blue aint the best colour to highlight with like

 

Hoping it'll exacerbate his hangover, via eye strain, as he'll likely only read that when pissed.

[The Fish 10793]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

[LeazesMag 0]

 

 

whats a fact, is that money from sales under the old regime was spent back on the team. That is how we reached levels of performance that your man will never see if he owns this football club until he is 200 years old.

 

Again, as you aren't putting your own hard cash into supporting your man, its easy to spout the rubbish that you spout.

 

I take it that you are now backing off that statement you made on numerous occasions, that you would revise your opinion of Mike Ashley on September 1st, and this transfer deadline that has just passed was "now or never" for him ?

 

 

Where's the yes or no to my question.

 

Now or never in what context?? I have said what I "think" it shows.

 

Even if he is not prepared to put his own hand into his own pocket any more, the financial position of the club is such that we can, and should, compete at our realistic level (circa Spurs was the consensus on here).

 

O the surface, previous "profits" (not that we made any in real terms) went back into the team, whilst debt was increased to allow £52 Million to be taken out, or maybe it was the other way around.

 

Any chance of an answer to my Nolan/Barton question ???

 

what is your view of your man dragging the average position drastically downwards ? Simply a continuation of the trend, we've bottomed outthough IMO

 

What is your re-appraisal you said you would give of him after his summer "when the club was in a spending position for the first time" ? Already answered

 

When did the old owners not back their managers to the utmost ? With their own money, never. If you want a specific example, the Bowyer summer

 

When did you last put your money into the football club ? 2003 - and you know the reasons from PM some weeks ago, edit - thats when I personally stopped going, I stopped buying my ST's in 2005/6

 

What is your question re Barton and Nolan ? Would you have paid them/given them the contracts they have ended up with

 

When is your man going to qualify for europe ? Not my man and sadly I do not "100% know the future", If by Eurpoe you mean Champions league, possibly never, but you do realise the game has somewhat changed since last we did.

 

Who said Spurs was our target ? When your man took over, we were much bigger than Spurs ? No-one, wherever did you make that idea up from

 

See above

 

what a load of selective crap.

 

What is your question about Spurs, it is you who mentioned Spurs

 

When is your man going to match the previous regime ?

 

What is your "revised opinion", given that the transfer deadline "is the first that he has had money to spend". Where has the Carroll and the Nolan money gone, was this not the basis of your afforementioned claim ?

 

When are you going to actually put your own money into supporting your man, during what you think are such "exciting times" and good progress being made ?

Edited October 10, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

Blue aint the best colour to highlight with like

 

Hoping it'll exacerbate his hangover, via eye strain, as he'll likely only read that when pissed.

 

ah, another lemonade drinker

[LeazesMag 0]

Been a fair bit of talk about Colo getting a new contract, I am still sceptical but it would be brilliant if he did.

 

I still don't think we are a selling club any more than the vast majority of clubs in this league as in, if a silly offer comes in we will accept and as far as buying to sell for a profit goes we really fucked up on Barton, Nolan and Jose

 

oh dear

 

You should be banned, for being so gullible.

Edited October 10, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

 

unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always.

 

The current team is not as good as a year ago.

 

The current squad is not as good as a year ago.

 

The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ?

[LeazesMag 0]

I don't tink we will accept offers (unless they are very BIG) any more than any non-champions league club will.

 

As for Colo, he's 28 but CB's play well into their thrities, hope they can get something done, has to be this year otherwise it's "last year of contract shenanigans" again. Would suspect if he's not signed this season he'll be gone next summer. That's just the realityof the game these days.

In order that I can quote you in January, what do you class as a very BIG offer?

 

Who for ???

 

Mike Ashleys back pocket ?

 

What is your revised opinion of the direction of the club ? You said, often enough, the summer transfer deadline would be a watershed for you ?

[Gejon 2]

Been a fair bit of talk about Colo getting a new contract, I am still sceptical but it would be brilliant if he did.

 

I still don't think we are a selling club any more than the vast majority of clubs in this league as in, if a silly offer comes in we will accept and as far as buying to sell for a profit goes we really fucked up on Barton, Nolan and Jose

 

oh dear

 

You should be banned, for being so gullible.

 

 

Suggesting someone should be banned is pathetic apparently, can you remember who was claiming this recently?

 

 

[LeazesMag 0]

Been a fair bit of talk about Colo getting a new contract, I am still sceptical but it would be brilliant if he did.

 

I still don't think we are a selling club any more than the vast majority of clubs in this league as in, if a silly offer comes in we will accept and as far as buying to sell for a profit goes we really fucked up on Barton, Nolan and Jose

 

oh dear

 

You should be banned, for being so gullible.

 

 

Suggesting someone should be banned is pathetic apparently, can you remember who was claiming this recently?

 

 

 

Apparently yes, it is, but only when you do it for the reason that people have a different opinion to you.

 

I still find it hard to believe that some people are thick enough to believe this club is on the right lines, on the basis of a few good results and the easiest set of opening fixtures we have had in years.

 

you're up late aren't you ?

[Gejon 2]

Been a fair bit of talk about Colo getting a new contract, I am still sceptical but it would be brilliant if he did.

 

I still don't think we are a selling club any more than the vast majority of clubs in this league as in, if a silly offer comes in we will accept and as far as buying to sell for a profit goes we really fucked up on Barton, Nolan and Jose

 

oh dear

 

You should be banned, for being so gullible.

 

 

Suggesting someone should be banned is pathetic apparently, can you remember who was claiming this recently?

 

 

 

Apparently yes, it is, but only when you do it for the reason that people have a different opinion to you.

 

I still find it hard to believe that some people are thick enough to believe this club is on the right lines, on the basis of a few good results and the easiest set of opening fixtures we have had in years.

 

you're up late aren't you ?

 

A bit ironic, I thought your lot were in bed by 7pm and up as soon as the buses were running so you could fanny about town all day getting in peoples way.

[LeazesMag 0]

Been a fair bit of talk about Colo getting a new contract, I am still sceptical but it would be brilliant if he did.

 

I still don't think we are a selling club any more than the vast majority of clubs in this league as in, if a silly offer comes in we will accept and as far as buying to sell for a profit goes we really fucked up on Barton, Nolan and Jose

 

oh dear

 

You should be banned, for being so gullible.

 

 

Suggesting someone should be banned is pathetic apparently, can you remember who was claiming this recently?

 

 

 

Apparently yes, it is, but only when you do it for the reason that people have a different opinion to you.

 

I still find it hard to believe that some people are thick enough to believe this club is on the right lines, on the basis of a few good results and the easiest set of opening fixtures we have had in years.

 

you're up late aren't you ?

 

A bit ironic, I thought your lot were in bed by 7pm and up as soon as the buses were running so you could fanny about town all day getting in peoples way.

 

as you live in Hemel Hempstead, or somewhere like that, you know nowt about Newcastle ?

[Gejon 2]

 

Silly old man.

 

Is your point that old people in Newcastle don't go out on he bus then fanny about in town during the day?

[LeazesMag 0]

 

Silly old man.

 

Is your point that old people in Newcastle don't go out on he bus then fanny about in town during the day?

 

silly boy.

 

Why don't you show us all, by virtue of facts etc, that you have proved me wrong over the past 4-5 years ago instead of avoiding a direct reply ?

Edited October 10, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Gejon 2]

mental.

 

Show me an argument I have made against the previous board and I will show you where you have proved me wrong.

 

As with all your posts, this will go round and round and round again with you claiming I have said things I haven't which in turn makes it impossible for me to admit you proved me wrong.

 

 

This will obviously lead to a reply along the lines of "I asked YOU to find blah, blah, blah'

 

Moron.

[LeazesMag 0]

mental.

 

Show me an argument I have made against the previous board and I will show you where you have proved me wrong.

 

As with all your posts, this will go round and round and round again with you claiming I have said things I haven't which in turn makes it impossible for me to admit you proved me wrong.

 

 

This will obviously lead to a reply along the lines of "I asked YOU to find blah, blah, blah'

 

Moron.

 

why don't you just accept the fact that you know nowt about the club, you've rejected the views for years of someone who does [and has proved it] despite taking the side of others who also know nowt about the club.

 

You should have listened to people like me years ago, and saved yourself all those years of posting shite.

 

If, as you say, I'm "making things up", why are you giving me flak now for saying what I've always said ? Did you agree with me or not ?

 

Quite unbelievable that you actually have posted that I "have nothing to add to this message board", considering the amount of mongs on the board that you prefer to this one, who actually thought - and still do - that Mike Ashley would be "better" than the last owners.

 

If I'm not "making things up", does this confirm that you have always agreed with me then ? Or is the lemonade fogging your brain ?

[LeazesMag 0]

anyway, I'm off to bed. I don't really want to go down this route. Why don't these people like Gejon stick to the message board that shares their views and appear to want to turn here into Newcastle Online ?

[Gejon 2]

As I said, find me a post where I have disagreed. I have always been (to my fault) notoriously optimistic about the club. Ironically when we were taken over by a billionaire my first reaction was to tell people something like "just because HE is a billionaire it doesn't mean WE will be spending lots of money".

 

What you seem to believe is that EVERYONE was against the old board and only you were saying that the grass isn't always greener which is a load of shit. Some got a bit excited at the prospect of a billionaire taking over, especially during a time when there were very strong signs we were slipping away from the absolutely brilliant heights Shepherd and Hall had managed to get us to previously and maybe they had run out of ideas so a new owner with new ideas could potentially get us back to that which maybe was naive but a little understandable as we did seem to be slipping away somewhat after a few managerial appointments that turned out to be massive failures (it happens).

 

Now I think that is a fair and valid response, feel free to come back with similar.

[manc-mag 1]

As I said, find me a post where I have disagreed. I have always been (to my fault) notoriously optimistic about the club. Ironically when we were taken over by a billionaire my first reaction was to tell people something like "just because HE is a billionaire it doesn't mean WE will be spending lots of money".

 

What you seem to believe is that EVERYONE was against the old board and only you were saying that the grass isn't always greener which is a load of shit. Some got a bit excited at the prospect of a billionaire taking over, especially during a time when there were very strong signs we were slipping away from the absolutely brilliant heights Shepherd and Hall had managed to get us to previously and maybe they had run out of ideas so a new owner with new ideas could potentially get us back to that which maybe was naive but a little understandable as we did seem to be slipping away somewhat after a few managerial appointments that turned out to be massive failures (it happens).

 

Now I think that is a fair and valid response, feel free to come back with similar.

 

Don't bother mate. I remember you broadly taking the optimistic line even when we were no great shakes under Shepherd but it doesn't fit his agenda. He's in his own bubble and it needs to be ignored because he won't do it himself, despite people asking nicely and frequently.

[Gejon 2]

As I said, find me a post where I have disagreed. I have always been (to my fault) notoriously optimistic about the club. Ironically when we were taken over by a billionaire my first reaction was to tell people something like "just because HE is a billionaire it doesn't mean WE will be spending lots of money".

 

What you seem to believe is that EVERYONE was against the old board and only you were saying that the grass isn't always greener which is a load of shit. Some got a bit excited at the prospect of a billionaire taking over, especially during a time when there were very strong signs we were slipping away from the absolutely brilliant heights Shepherd and Hall had managed to get us to previously and maybe they had run out of ideas so a new owner with new ideas could potentially get us back to that which maybe was naive but a little understandable as we did seem to be slipping away somewhat after a few managerial appointments that turned out to be massive failures (it happens).

 

Now I think that is a fair and valid response, feel free to come back with similar.

 

Don't bother mate. I remember you broadly taking the optimistic line even when we were no great shakes under Shepherd but it doesn't fit his agenda. He's in his own bubble and it needs to be ignored because he won't do it himself, despite people asking nicely and frequently.

 

I know you're right, you would have thought rating Shola and thinking Amdy Faye would be a good signing would brand you "Optimistic moron" for life but you just can't get through to some people.

 

Unfortunately these two posts will give him something to respond to rather than the post I made above which he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on. My only comfort is knowing he will wake up tomorrow, check the forum and look like this when he reads back through his posts

 

 

[The Fish 10793]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

 

unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always.

 

The current team is not as good as a year ago.

 

The current squad is not as good as a year ago.

 

The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ?

Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year

 

Krul - Harper

Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses

 

Simpson - Simpson

I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back

 

Taylor - Taylor

Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo

 

Coloccini - Coloccini

Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo

 

Santon/Raylor - Enrique

Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club.

 

Obertan - Barton

Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit)

 

Cabaye - Nolan.

This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box.

 

Tiote - Tiote

The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last.

 

Jonas - Jonas

Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc.

 

Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands

Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him.

 

Ba - Carroll

This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo.

 

Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield.

 

Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again.

 

The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition.

 

 

 

I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you.

 

re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation.

 

I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion!

 

But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here.

[Toonpack 9303]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

 

unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always.

 

The current team is not as good as a year ago.

 

The current squad is not as good as a year ago.

 

The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ?

Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year

 

Krul - Harper

Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses

 

Simpson - Simpson

I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back

 

Taylor - Taylor

Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo

 

Coloccini - Coloccini

Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo

 

Santon/Raylor - Enrique

Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club.

 

Obertan - Barton

Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit)

 

Cabaye - Nolan.

This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box.

 

Tiote - Tiote

The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last.

 

Jonas - Jonas

Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc.

 

Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands

Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him.

 

Ba - Carroll

This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo.

 

Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield.

 

Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again.

 

The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition.

 

 

 

I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you.

 

re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation.

 

I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion!

 

But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here.

 

Excellent post, white bit nails it.

 

There is a definitive "break point" and that as you say is the first Keegan years, after that there were blips or grasps at the heights again, each one not quite as high as the last and each one, not sustained. The sprial was heading down, we rose (a bit higher) and we fell (a bit lower) and that was going only one way. We never did consolidate it or rather, fully capitalise on or continue it, and all the while the game was changing and we were getting poorer and poorer.

[LeazesMag 0]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

 

unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always.

 

The current team is not as good as a year ago.

 

The current squad is not as good as a year ago.

 

The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ?

Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year

 

Krul - Harper

Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses

 

Simpson - Simpson

I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back

 

Taylor - Taylor

Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo

 

Coloccini - Coloccini

Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo

 

Santon/Raylor - Enrique

Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club.

 

Obertan - Barton

Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit)

 

Cabaye - Nolan.

This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box.

 

Tiote - Tiote

The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last.

 

Jonas - Jonas

Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc.

 

Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands

Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him.

 

Ba - Carroll

This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo.

 

Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield.

 

Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again.

 

The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition.

 

 

 

I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you.

 

re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation.

 

I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion!

 

But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here.

 

the team and squad is not as good, and the club is in decline long term.

 

Sorry like, but that post makes no difference.

 

By the way, I'm not "having the same argument", it is the same people who keep disagreeing with me. It's been going on a few years now, and the longer it goes on......

 

I really thought that you were one of those who wouldn't be stupid enough to be fooled by a short run of results, especially mostly against the weaker teams in the league.

Edited October 11, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

 

I'm not and never have advocated challenging for the title. Find a post from me that says this ?

 

What I DO advocate, is that we challenge the likes of Spurs and Liverpool, rather than sell our best players to smaller clubs and put up with the money disappearing down a big black hole.

 

And - yes - in my opinion, this will continue to be the case for as long as Mike Ashley owns this football club.

Ok, so you want us to challenge the likes of Liverpool and Spurs (I'm presuming this is an "at least" scenario"). Ok, now I have a frame of reference to your expectations.

 

Do you think the current 1st team is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

Do you think the current squad is better than that of last year? (pre Carroll departure)

 

unlike posters such as mancmag, and others, I'll give my view. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But I'm right, as always.

 

The current team is not as good as a year ago.

 

The current squad is not as good as a year ago.

 

The club is, in the long run, heading downwards, the expectations etc have dived. Why do you think the commercial profile and crowds are down ?

Ok, I'll give my player by player comparison to explain why I think the 1st team is stronger than it was last year

 

Krul - Harper

Much of a muchness to be honest, although the former has bags of potential and by your own admission looks more capable with crosses

 

Simpson - Simpson

I think he's improving, but he's still an average right back

 

Taylor - Taylor

Again, I think he's average Premiership, but his confidence is growing as his his understanding with Colo

 

Coloccini - Coloccini

Best defender at the club (now) plays well with Taylor and is the best CB to pull on the shirt since Woodgate imo

 

Santon/Raylor - Enrique

Raylor is clearly a shit left back, Santon hasn't been seen yet so I can;t really compare. However, Jose Enrique was not only the best defender at the club, he was arguably the best left back in the country and he wouldn't look out of place in any club.

 

Obertan - Barton

Barton is a better player, Obertan is a better winger. I don't think Gabriel will keep his place when Marveaux, Ben Arfa and Jonas are all fit and flying. I would say we'll miss Barton's application, he's clearly a good footballer, but I think the midfield is better without him (I'll say why in a bit)

 

Cabaye - Nolan.

This is a no brainer, even in 7 games Cabaye is 10 times the player Nolan is. He's fitter, more mobile, more astute with the pass, he works harder and he will give us goal scoring options outside the box.

 

Tiote - Tiote

The man is a beast and will grow and grow. He will be better this season than he was last.

 

Jonas - Jonas

Spiderman is a good Premiership player, regardless of what some people think, you can't underestimate his contribution. He provides a much needed way of carrying the ball away from defense, he works hard all game, wins so many free-kicks (by fair or foul), corners etc.

 

Best/Ameobi - Ameobi/Lovenkrands

Best has had a good start, whether he can continue is a different question. However, The choice between Ameobi and Best is a much more pleasing quandary than Ameobi or Lovenkrands. The latter is finished. He may pop up with the odd cup goal, but I'd rather Sameobi or Vuckic or even Ranger got their chance ahead of him.

 

Ba - Carroll

This is tough. Ba looks a good Premier League striker; mobile, physical, decent touch, decent finish. Is he as good as Carroll? only time will tell, personally? I don't think he is. I think Carroll will become a more imposing player than Ba. For this club at this time, obviously I'd rather Carroll were still here, alongside Ba, but as it stands we've lost 1 15 goal a season striker and replaced him with another imo.

 

Overall, we've improved the midfield to such an extent I'd definitely say the squad was stronger. In Cabaye we have a player of genuine quality, and the central pairing has been praised , to me, by fans of all manner of clubs. People are saying that it's the best centre in the premier league. This is why I think that losing Barton and Nolan isn't a death knell. I think when Ben Arfa returns and we have guile to go with the steel in the centre we will genuinely have a top 4 midfield.

 

Up front isn't so great, but then it wasn't great with Carroll and he's not exactly pulling up trees. I'm not just talking about scoring goals, but his overall play has been poor by all accounts. Whereas Ba has been on fire. I truly believe that with the addition of a decent striker at Christmas we'd be the form team again.

 

The defence as individuals aren't spectacular, but we've conceded the fewest number of goals in the English League. That can only be down to hard work on the training fields and astute tactics. Would I have Enrique back? In an instant. However, Santon may well be a good addition.

 

 

 

I understand your frustration, but I think you've taken a stance and will now not be swayed from it, regardless of the evidence before you.

 

re: your last statement, I think expectations were dropping even before MA bought the club. Under Shepherd and Halls I didn't automatically assume we'd be challenging for top honours because I saw Chelsea suddenly come into vast sums of money. I saw Wenger's experiment pay off to such a degree it was impossible to imagine that 7 games into a season they'd be floundering so badly. I saw the Man U juggernaut grow stronger with each passing season. The only thing I was sure under the previous regime is we'd spend around £15m in the transfer window. We still finished bottom half of the Premier League under the previous regime roughly as many times as we finished in the top half. When Dalglish took over from Keegan, I expected Champions League, when Gullit took over from Dalglish I expected Europe. When Sir Bobby took over I expected survival. Souness? Relegation.

 

I don't think it's fair to say Newcastle fans' expectations have dropped since Mike Ashley. They've been steadily depressing for a while. Ever since the unblievable highs of Keegan's first reign came crashing down. I also don't think it's fair to say that in reducing our expectations we're being anything less than realistic. You yourself have said that you expect to challenge Spurs and Liverpool, not go for the title. Is this not evidence of your own expectations getting in line with reality? With the league as it is; all the power with the super-rich, Newcastle United simply cannot compete. With or without Shepherd and Hall at the helm. They could spend as much as they could muster, it still would pale in comparison to the half a billion the Etihad Arena has seen grace it's pitch. Half a Billion!

 

But none of this matters, unless you finally, eventually, stop having the same argument everytime you come on here.

 

Excellent post, white bit nails it.

 

There is a definitive "break point" and that as you say is the first Keegan years, after that there were blips or grasps at the heights again, each one not quite as high as the last and each one, not sustained. The sprial was heading down, we rose (a bit higher) and we fell (a bit lower) and that was going only one way. We never did consolidate it or rather, fully capitalise on or continue it, and all the while the game was changing and we were getting poorer and poorer.

 

your man will never get anywhere near the heights of the past regime or anywhere not even close to fulfilling the potential of the football club. Which is the main point that you are unable to grasp, instead accepting 2nd rate standards and expectations on a par with the Blackburns and Boltons.

 

I see you still haven't revised your opinion of Mike Ashley yet, despite saying for months that you would, based on the transfer deadline and how he would show his ambitions for the future success of the club.

 

Take your time.

Edited October 11, 2011 by LeazesMag

[ChezGiven 0]

Not sure i'd have put Obertan green next to Barton but the point about playing a different style with more pace down the flanks is important. Its natural to compare them two and Nolan/Cabaye but i reckon there is another perspective on the midfield.

 

Another way of looking at it is how we were looking at it this time last year, Ben Arfa is the replacement for Nolan as he is the player that can connect the midfield and the attack and provide a goal threat from a deeper position, which is essentially what Nolan was doing when he was being useful.

 

Barton played wide last season but was very much a ball carrying midfielder who influenced our shape and style as he was picking the ball up sometimes in narrow positions, coming inside or out wide, which required us to work space for him down the flank to allow him to put a delivery in. He was more than often the creative fulcrum in the side. Therefore, although occupying different positions on the pitch (except when he was coming inside), Cabaye has taken on Barton's role within the team. Most obviously seen with him taking set pieces and corners but it goes way beyond that.

 

Therefore, when you put the players up head to head it could arguably be Barton v Cabaye and Nolan v Ben Arfa. Obertan allows us to play differently and gives us genuine pace to occupy the minds of the fullback who wants to bomb on (a critical feature of a modern formation). Barton's lack of pace exposed our flank against the better sides. Well thats the theory anyway, we looked exposed down the right with Obertan against Wolves but there ye gan.