Dr Gloom 21768 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Colo is our most important player this season. Selling him would be an even bigger blow than when we lost Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Colo is our most important player this season. Selling him would be an even bigger blow than when we lost Carroll Yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacinofan 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) Of course we have gone backwards - we are one of the also rans now, and we have lost 25,000 fans in the process - the potential of the club will never be realised under Ashley - a massive lost opportunity from an owner who has no ambition whatsoever. And we were then. Seriously, who other than Man U, City, Chelsea aren't these days (and maybe Arsenal, although there are signs they're heading to also-ran-ville as they are losing their best players to their "rivals", in the "approaching last year of contract" scenario, sounds awfully familiar). As for then 25,000 can you quantify/back that up ??? In another thread, I can't recall exactly which one, I believe our realistic "benchmark" appeared widely accepted as being Spurs (notwithstanding their bright-lights London advantage). Given our operating model (that can never work long term, so I keep reading) has been their operating model for years and years, what over and above competing with Spurs is our "realistic" ambition in your opinion? I understand we used to have a waiting list with 15,000 people on it so basically I would say there are more than 20,000 fans who have lost interest in going to games. Also despite the good start to the season we had loads of empty seats at the villa game - ive not known that for many many years, it was very sad to see and its another indication the club is decline. As for spurs, much as dislike them, I would say they have demonstrated far more ambition than us in recent years - they fight to keep hold of their best players for a start Guess how much the capacity went up by... I think this was after the capacity had increased to 52,000 That figure was always quoted when we were at 36,000 tbh. I'm sure someone will have the right answer with regard to that, but even if I'm wrong our home crowds are showing a year by year reduction and there were hundreds of empty seats in our end at Villa the other week which really surprised me. I can't remember the last time we didnt sell our allocation at Villa! How do you explain that if you don't think the club is in decline under Ashley? I think he's alienated a lot of people and I wouldn't be so daft to dispute the fact of falling attendances. At the same time I know 'fulfilling our potential' (meaning the natural potential of NUFC given it's fanbase), doesn't get you within competing distance of Chelsea Man U Man C etc these days because they're having money chucked at them due to either their a) bigger natural resources or private funding. 'Chuck more money at us please' is a perfectly valid thing to say, but people should have the honesty to acknowledge that that's just a statement of desire and not try to link it to NUFC's natural potential, because the facts there suggest we fall way behind the aforementioned clubs resources even with a full 52,000 stadium. Say you want more money spent by all means, but don't say it's warranted because we're NUFC and our natural potential because their's an inherent contradiction in that. City are having a whale of a time, but you won't find one fan trying to pass it off as being sustainable on the back of their natural potential. They know they're a rich mans play thing but theyre honest about it. Their stadium is only 4,000 less than ours and they've spent close to £300 million on transfers alone. Before 2003 we were by and large the second largest club in terms of turn over though. That's a fact, all clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea have done is maximise their branding, while ours has detoriated to dunlop dodgem levels. Why was our turnover bigger than theirs then, and why can't it be again? I think with Arsenal who are the 4th biggest club in the world on a few levels we won't compete because we cant charge £1000 for the cheapest season tickets in the NE, but Man City, our natural size is MUCH bigger than theirs. Us and Tottenham should be about the same. You're at it again ffs. Only twice have you had a higher turnover than Liverpool in the last 16 years. Don't know about the other clubs you mention, but wouldn't surprise me if you were wrong about them either. Liverpool Year Turnover 2007/08 159.052 2006/07 133.910 - 2005/06 119.499 2004/05 121.054 2003/04 92.576 - 2002/03 102.504 2001/02 98.668 2000/01 82.155 1999/00 46.609 1998/99 45.265 1997/98 36.366 1996/97 39.153 1995/96 27.396 - Newcastle Year Turnover Pre-tax profit Wages / Turnover ratio (%) Employees 2007/08 99.358 - 2006/07 87.083 - 2005/06** 83.086 - 2004/05 87.087 2003/04 90.468 2002/03 96.449 2001/02 70.858 2000/01 54.916 1999/00 45.090 - 1998/99 44.718 1997/98 49.177 1996/97 42.162 1995/96 24.723 Edited November 3, 2011 by Pacinofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 What source are you using out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. Edited November 4, 2011 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Colo is our most important player this season. Selling him would be an even bigger blow than when we lost Carroll Yup. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Apparently Ashley tossed a coin to decide which one of them to sell in january. Lucky for the fat cunt that Carroll was heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. I have an illness. Someone makes a vague reference to numbers and I MUST fact check.... LFC net spend (rounded)... 11/12 - £30m 10/11 - £24m 09/10 - £5m profit 08/09 - £10m 07/08 - £2.5m 06/07 - £37m Just short of £100m over 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. I have an illness. Someone makes a vague reference to numbers and I MUST fact check.... LFC net spend (rounded)... 11/12 - £30m 10/11 - £24m 09/10 - £5m profit 08/09 - £10m 07/08 - £2.5m 06/07 - £37m Just short of £100m over 6 years. But no Masch or Torres or that other midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. I have an illness. Someone makes a vague reference to numbers and I MUST fact check.... LFC net spend (rounded)... 11/12 - £30m 10/11 - £24m 09/10 - £5m profit 08/09 - £10m 07/08 - £2.5m 06/07 - £37m Just short of £100m over 6 years. I meant recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacinofan 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. Not really. The net spend is only 30 odd million, and the CL losses should be made up with the new sponsorship deals which are big. We got rid of a lot of players in the summer which also brought the wage bill down. I would expect the club to show a loss though in the next set of figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, you're not getting back in the CL anytime soon. King Kenny the cheque book manager found out in the modern game. Happy days tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9129 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Irrespective of turnover LFC must be bleeding cash after the dross they've spunked a fortune on combined with not being in the Champions League. I have an illness. Someone makes a vague reference to numbers and I MUST fact check.... LFC net spend (rounded)... 11/12 - £30m 10/11 - £24m 09/10 - £5m profit 08/09 - £10m 07/08 - £2.5m 06/07 - £37m Just short of £100m over 6 years. Yet their accounts fro 2005 to 2010 declare a cummulative profit on player sales of £72.8 Million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacinofan 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, you're not getting back in the CL anytime soon. King Kenny the cheque book manager found out in the modern game. Happy days tbh. I disagree, I believe we'll get back in at the end of this season. We're playing better football than we have for a while, and once we start capitalising on the chances created (our finishing has been shite) we'll win the matches we dominate instead of losing like against Stoke. We've hit the bar or post 10 times this season, top of the league for that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, you're not getting back in the CL anytime soon. King Kenny the cheque book manager found out in the modern game. Happy days tbh. I disagree, I believe we'll get back in at the end of this season. We're playing better football than we have for a while, and once we start capitalising on the chances created (our finishing has been shite) we'll win the matches we dominate instead of losing like against Stoke. We've hit the bar or post 10 times this season, top of the league for that anyway. We'll see in May. Come back then and say I told you so by all means Personally I think you're the 6th best team in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Can people post their sources please? Just out of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, you're not getting back in the CL anytime soon. King Kenny the cheque book manager found out in the modern game. Happy days tbh. I disagree, I believe we'll get back in at the end of this season. We're playing better football than we have for a while, and once we start capitalising on the chances created (our finishing has been shite) we'll win the matches we dominate instead of losing like against Stoke. We've hit the bar or post 10 times this season, top of the league for that anyway. Being Liv you should really get goals for that I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Or have a minute's silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacinofan 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Well, you're not getting back in the CL anytime soon. King Kenny the cheque book manager found out in the modern game. Happy days tbh. I disagree, I believe we'll get back in at the end of this season. We're playing better football than we have for a while, and once we start capitalising on the chances created (our finishing has been shite) we'll win the matches we dominate instead of losing like against Stoke. We've hit the bar or post 10 times this season, top of the league for that anyway. Being Liv you should really get goals for that I reckon. I can only agree PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Can people post their sources please? Just out of interest. http://www.soccerbas...mTabs=transfers There's plenty of undisclosed fees. Meireles pulled in £12m for example, But i can't be arsed looking at all those Edited November 4, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Toon Better Than When Ashley Found Them Looking at the smile on Alan Pardew's face at Stoke, even he seems to be doubting it - not that Newcastle can maintain their superb start to the season but that they are third in the table in the first place. They can go even higher on Saturday lunchtime, overtaking Manchester United by beating Everton. To stay in that position, all that would need happen is for Steve Bruce's Sunderland to win at Old Trafford. The fixture schedule, with home draws against the August version of Arsenal and then Tottenham the hardest games, has been generous. Still, while no one can possibly think Newcastle will be this high in May, and January would be a surprise, to be here with 10 games played is an unlikely achievement. The sole infiltrators into last season's top six now Arsenal have caught up, Mike Ashley's side are thriving in an apparent vindication of their reluctant owner's vision, as well as that of their manager, even if Pardew is laughing off suggestions that his side are challengers. United have flown even higher than third this time of year recently, the difference being that when they were second at the end of October in 2009 it was in the Championship, and they were genuine contenders. That was under Chris Hughton, who took them back into the Premier League and was rewarded with the axe from Ashley in December last year. The SportsDirect owner has found an extraordinary range of ways to anger Newcastle fans - sticking his company name into the official title of St James' Park for one - but appointing Pardew seemed especially odd, even before the handing out of a five-and-a-half-year deal. Newcastle had eight managers, including caretakers, in 10 spells, in the previous five and a half years; Pardew had steadily diminishing spans at other clubs - 211 games at Reading, 163 at West Ham, 90 at Charlton, 64 at Southampton - with a couple of periods of underemployment. The grim reaction from fans was entirely predictable and at times - after the defeat to Stevenage, and when they were 4-0 down at home to Arsenal - it was easy to imagine that contract ending with five full years on the clock. A 5-0 win against West Ham had been followed by the FA Cup shock and two league draws and a defeat; then Arsenal were running riot, against the backdrop of Andy Carroll's sale. Yet, via Cheik Tiote's equaliser, here we are. Before Pardew reaches his first anniversary in charge he faces trips to both Manchester clubs and the visit of Chelsea, which should offer some correction. But Newcastle reach November unbeaten in the league, a feat matched only by Manchester City; and while the leaders have spent big then bigger then biggest, Ashley has slashed and trimmed and cashed in, most famously with the £35m received from Liverpool in January. Even Ashley would perhaps concede that some of the slashing and burning of the past few years was counter-productive: Roy Kinnear never pulled off a piece of slapstick to match Joe's dismissal of Charles N'Zogbia as Insomnia, causing a sale that arguably led to relegation. But when Newcastle went down in 2009 they did so with a wage bill that was the fifth highest in the Premier League and, though lagging behind the erstwhile Big Four, significantly above the average. Newcastle suffered an operating loss in the year ending that July of £37.7m, before player trading. In the Championship, with far less income even after parachute payments and still encumbered with some high earners despite the clearout, they lost £33.5m. Two weeks ago though, they announced that their audited accounts for 2010-11 are expected to show a loss of only £4.7m, with a profit likely for the current year. This despite a drop in season-ticket sales: where once the queue for them would have stretched to the Angel of the North and back, existing season-ticket holders can now buy another one at half price. The shocks and blunders have eaten into the support, but whatever you think of Ashley it is difficult to believe Newcastle were getting value for money before this cost-cutting. A club statement to announce the financial position said: "We have a realistic view of what we can achieve at Newcastle and the time-frame required to achieve it. We have a strict spending policy and will not take a reckless approach which permits spending beyond our means." Independent of UEFA, Ashley has introduced financial fair play. And there has been recruitment. "Our priority during the summer transfer window was to secure exciting young players with huge potential that add real strength to the squad." It is difficult to dispute, at this stage of the season, that this is what Pardew and the board did, however understandable the dismay over the continued absence of the Carroll cash, to which the sale of Jose Enrique to the same club added. Now, the focus on the manager's future has been replaced by one on Pardew's emphasis on passing. Yohan Cabaye, the creative fulcrum, and Fabricio Collocini, promoted to replace Kevin Nolan as captain, have set a tone free of the stridency of Joey Barton. Demba Ba - so far, so good with the injury problem - has taken two lots of hat-trick headlines. Graham Carr, the senior scout, has got a lot of publicity in part because the information that he is Alan Carr's father is irresistible, and good luck to him after the Dennis Wise debacle. But this is early November. A year ago it was Sunderland who were shining (albeit not so brightly), with Steve Bruce purring about the quality of his squad and the Mackems appearing in the same sentence as Europe. Pardew's stormy career has had sunny intervals before, most notably when West Ham were stoppage time away from beating Liverpool in the 2006 FA Cup final; he was gone that December. The more solid achievement is in the books; the move into profit is not threatened by those stiff forthcoming fixtures. If Newcastle maintain a high position then the players who have got them there will ask for, and expect, higher wages. They may be difficult to replace but would no doubt bring in considerable profits. Owning Newcastle has cost Ashley a lot of money and a lot of credibility; he replaced a discredited setup, swapped Sam Allardyce for Kevin Keegan, and still wound up grossly unpopular in a matter of months. Some of the abuse went too far but there were plenty of legitimate grievances and eventually Ashley said he would sell. Yet here he still is. When Ashley wanted to sell a debt-laden, loss-making, Championship-bound club with the support in open rebellion, he could find no takers at the price he wanted. Now he has a stable, going concern on his hands. Last month, Derek Llambias, the managing director, said: "Mike Ashley has no intention of putting the club up for sale. He is still extremely passionate about strengthening the club and making it a real success. We are balancing the books and getting the finances in order, but there's plenty more work to be done and he's committed to doing that for the long term. "That said, it's worth going back to the analogy of the house that's not for sale. If suddenly an incredible offer comes in, he may have to consider it." Ashley has put in a reputed £280million so that offer really would have to be incredible. Yet were he to sell now, through accidentally dragging down expectations to a more realistic level and rebuilding all but completely to produce a leaner, fitter club, he could argue he handed Newcastle over in a better state than he found them. He has a very long way to go but Mike Ashley has taken some unexpected steps towards rehabilitation. Philip Cornwall http://www.football3...-Ashley-Arrived Edited November 4, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yap: Ashley has set Newcastle free ESPNSTAR's Kelvin Yap believes Newcastle's surging start to the season is no fluke and credits the uncharacteristic peace at St James Park as the main reason for it. The Magpies are unbeaten in the league and have the meanest defence, conceding just seven goals after ten games. Not even the most one-eyed Geordies' fan could have envisaged the club's stunning start to the season - ten games in and they occupy third spot; a mere point behind Manchester United and six off pace-setters City. And yet, here we are. To be fair, even Alan Pardew has had a hard time believing it. When his side were fourth in late September after seven games, he said - only half-jokingly: "it won't last". After a dominant 3-1 victory against Stoke at the Britannia Stadium, a ground where Chelsea and Manchester United could only manage a draw, where Liverpool stumbled to a loss, Pardew has had to eat his words. Not that he'll be complaining. Newcastle United seem to have turned back the clock to the 1990s, when they were playing swashbuckling football and regularly challenging for the title with David Ginola and Alan Shearer in the side. A lot of credit must be given to Pardew. He made a couple of very shrewd signings in the transfer windows in Yohan Cabaye and Demba Ba to replace the loss of Kevin Nolan and Andy Carroll. However, even more credit must be given to owner Mike Ashley for simply not doing anything at all. Pardew said in the same interview back in September: "I know it's probably not too good for reporters, as you haven't got any bombs going off. But I'm sure there will be at some point." And he has a point, given Ashley's horrific track record of faux pas. Ashley hired Kevin Keegan after buying over the club in 2008 and ended up undermining the Newcastle legend's authority at every turn by attempting to play out a real-life version of Football Manager at the club with a real football manager at the helm. He then sprung a rude surprise by hiring Joe Kinnear, whose first act was to generate the headline "Newcastle manager swears live on BBC one day after appointment" in an attempt to defend the club owner. The said owner then failed to generate headlines months later by hiring Alan Shearer on 1st April after Kinnear had to quit due to health reasons. I kid you not. Half the news agencies around the world did not carry the story after wondering whether it was an April Fools' Day prank or an actual appointment move. Ashley then realised he had offended half of Tyneside and attempted to sell the club for ‘the sake of his own family's health' but failed to do so after setting an exorbitant price on the shares. We thought we would see the last of his antics after Newcastle dropped to the Championship but after regaining Premier League status with new coach Chris Hughton, Ashley promptly sacked him, citing a need for a ‘more experienced man to do the job'. It's no surprise people expect Newcastle to flop season after season. Owners are supposed to manage the non-football aspect of the club and let the manager concentrate on the football, not act like a fan acting out his crazy football fantasies. After the loss of Jose Enrique and Andy Carroll to Liverpool and captain Kevin Nolan to Championship side West Ham, football naysayers sharpened their pens and stocked up on puns in anticipation of yet another crash and burn episode on Tyneside, but it hasn't happened. Better Newcastle sides have imploded before (cue Keegan's "I'll love it" speech), but this one has not. Not yet at least. There are many reasons for Newcastle's lofty perch 10 games into the season, and the biggest one will be Ashley's sudden sensibility. The current Ashley is a complete opposite of the one back in 2008; this one chose to keep his faith with Alan Pardew despite a 12th place finish last season and kept his comments to himself with a quarter of the season gone. But then again, the season is only ten games young and we'll know better after Newcastle face Manchester City, Manchester United and Chelsea in a demanding three-week stretch. Here's hoping Ashley keeps the tin-foil hat away from his head and lets Pardew do what he's been doing so brilliantly this season. Winning games. http://www.espnstar.com/editorial/news/detail/item701184/Yap:-Ashley-has-set-Newcastle-free/ These articles are gettng all too frequent. Thought the F365 one was canny enough like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9129 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Can people post their sources please? Just out of interest. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rvhUqXwobjY/TdqMhgU5r6I/AAAAAAAADVw/GD_o79vjj6I/s400/5%2BLiverpool%2BProfit.jpg Edited November 4, 2011 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEADMAN 0 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 i think we havent gone backwards i think its made us stronger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Ashley has had an olive branch stretched out to him in terms of getting us back into europe. Interesting times are ahead as we are witness as to what our club owner will do to extend our fantasy run with some canny signings. Should we continue to produce decent results and arrive at christmas with - say - 30 to 35 points, actions taken in order to prepare us for a long and gruelling spring season will decide the outcome of our 2011/2012 season. Should we continue with the cut-price signings done this summer, its officially verified that FMA could care less about league position and more about using us a milking cow for his other businesses - as long as we stay up. Will our fantastic start be an incentive to spend sweet Fuck all and rather sell a few players in january for a profit, seeing as our points already see us safe, or buy a few defenders and a top quality striker to continue the push? I would argue Ashley deserves fuck all credit for our run, all he did was spend absolutely fucking nothing this summer and sell some dead weight and want-aways, but our newfound success will help to highlight our number one concern - what are Ashleys true intentions with this club? There are no more excuses to make, summer window ending up as a massive disappointment after 8 months of preparing and a 50 million pound warchest. 6 months on and with an unreal first half to the season, people wondering about the owner of this club need to look no further than the actions taken in the transfer market of january 2012. We have already cemented the foundation for a return to greatness and as a genuine top flight club, will the owner see the window of opportunity and flex some muscles to have a go - or lean back with a cigar and sell off some "assets"? I would be delighted if the first scenario be the case - but sadly not surprised if the latter happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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