ooooooh hark at you, Mr Chez

[peasepud 59]

A well-written Ashley argument... - …on a Newcastle United forum?! Nonsense, we hear you cry. But tis... tumblr.com/xir4wqfdg7

 

I’m open-minded so one way i’ve looked at thing is that fter appointing Keegan in early 2008, the financial and economic climate became very harsh and either as a result of this or through a realisation of the quantity of money required to put that squad right (and also the loss of money of getting rid of players) there was an upheaval and change of strategy some time in early 2008, a realisation that it couldnt be done or a decision not to bother trying. For whatever reason, i think they found themselves in a hole and they changed everything. Keegan wanted to build on the team with big money signings (recognising what we all recognised that THAT squad / team needed at least 50m spending on it) and clashed with the board who were in the middle of realising all their assumptions about the business they bought were wrong. The fall out and subsequent treatment of Keegan i believe taught Ashley a massive lesson, that the fervour and passion at a football club can mean a player or manager has more power than the owner himself. Must have been an unusual feeling for him. The fact that he eventually appointed Shearer suggesting either one last roll of the dice or a machiavellian move to discredit a powerful potential enemy? I still cant work out whether he didnt care if we were relegated or not or actively planned it. Appointing Shearer suggests they wanted to avoid it but looked at in retrospect (and given the seemingly intelligent way the squad has been assembled financially this season) it seems they couldnt have done much more to ensure relegation occured. (Then again why panic buy Nolan in January when Barton got injured?)

 

The backdop to his whole regime has been the lying, the horrible defacing of the stadium, the idiocy of giving a job to the odious dwarf Wise, the treatment of Keegan, the long running episode regarding selling the club, Hughton in, Hughton out, Pardew in, Carroll out, unknown (sic) and mercenary frogs in, backbone and embodiment of the club (Nolan / Barton) out, no proper striker in. At the time every single one of those actions looked stupid and in the treatment of a club hero downright despicable.

 

However, once you’ve dealt with the Keegan issue, the list of things that have pissed people off is beginning to unravel a bit. The Carroll deal looks like good business for now, replacing the inexperienced Hughton with Pardew also looks as though it has worked, not rushing to spend 11m on Ruiz looks sensible given the relative goal scoring records of Best and Ba, Cabaye is better than Nolan, Obertan & Marveaux are definitely quicker than Barton if nowt else, Santon may be a replacement for Enrique.

 

He’s brutal (Keegan), ruthless (Shearer), calculated (Hughton), manipulative (his first season), opportunistic (Carroll) and exploitative (SD Branding) but i think ultimately (after wavering around not knowing which way to go) they have settled on a strategy. For those who are more negatively minded than this post appears to be, my question is ‘what do you think that strategy is?’. After reading 1000s of negative words about Ashley i realised something important: there were numerous negative ‘narratives’ about Ashley that tried to encapsulate in a sentence his evil plan. ‘Asset stripping’ was an early classic, ‘Profiteering’, ‘using NUFC as an advertising vehicle for SD’, ‘Selling club’, ‘Yo-yo club’, ‘West Brom model’, ‘buy cheap, sell high’, ‘buy based on re-sale value’ etc some of them often expressed by the same person whilst being inconsistent with each other or actual events. Which of the Barton, Nolan or Enrique deals did we make money on? Where does the lack of profit on these deals fit into the narrative, which narrative? He just wants to reduce the wage bill? How come its gone up then?

 

The fact remains that there has been little consistency to Ashley’s regime and much brutality that positioning anything postive that he has done as anything other than luck can set you apart as blinded and foolish. The season isnt old enough and our current trajectory is still unsure enough to mean i wont try and say anything for certain. However, the one strategic narrative that does make sense, the one Sir John Hall says Ashley expressed when he bought the club does give me some reason to be postive. If he wants to market SD to markets outside the UK and use the profile of the premiership to help drive the global growth of SD then the most effective way to do that is through having a successful NUFC that doesnt cost the world to run, good enough to threaten the top of the table and too good to be relegated, all within a wage bill of around 60 to 80m depending on financial performance (based on a target income of 100 - 120m per year). To do all that though, SJP is going to look like the premiership equivalent of Poundstretchers. I’ve heard this point of view discredited as ‘an insanely expensive way or promoting SD’ but of the 280m invested, he still has 140m of it in the asset and presumably the rest can be recuperated eventually. If he gets the price he paid back when he sells it and the debts to him are paid off then eventually its not an insanely expensive advertising campaign. Just an ugly one.

 

I’m not going to pretend i wasnt worried and pissed of on Sep 2nd but one thing i wont do is keep ascribing things that have gone well for us all down to luck. At some point if things continue to go well, somebody has to take some credit. Likewise if it all goes pear-shaped. He hasnt proved his doubters wrong yet but the way we have started this season has given them food for thought. One thing the doubters are not wrong about is that this club has more potential than Ashley is currently aiming for. Our financial performance is not that great, matchday revenues and commercial revenues have massivley dropped since he took over, there is at least 20 to 30m of revenue left on the table. If he starts to build these revenue lines, adds more quality to the squad and doesnt sell our best players then am sure more people will feel more postive. Unfortunately, as Sean Custis said yesterday, as soon as things start going well he manages to do something to fuck it up. Lets hope that inevitable moment is a while off for now.

[ewerk 31216]

Kudos to ‘ChezGiven’ on Newcastle-Online for speaking some sense in a world of kneejerkery.

 

Fuck him.

[Gemmill 46064]

Aye nice one Chez, you massive bender! Saves all his best stuff for NO.

[ChezGiven 0]

You lot have heard it all before.

[manc-mag 1]

Putting it about like a typical Frenchman.

[wykikitoon 20757]

Putting it about like a typical Frenchman.

 

[The Fish 10972]

You lot have heard it all before.

 

I like that you dumbed it down for N-O, threw a few deliberate mistakes in there. Thoughtful

[Gemmill 46064]

We had some dimwit on here a while back who's mates with this shiteseats. Anyway I took the piss out of him in General Chat about something non-football related, and he retaliated by letting me know that the great shiteseats (he has his own website dontcha know) had told him that I talk shite. Or something like that.

 

Anyway i've never recovered from it.

[Dr Gloom 22176]

i can sum up ashley far more succinctly than that....

 

...cunt

[Guest Your Name Here]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

[JawD 99]

We had some dimwit on here a while back who's mates with this shiteseats. Anyway I took the piss out of him in General Chat about something non-football related, and he retaliated by letting me know that the great shiteseats (he has his own website dontcha know) had told him that I talk shite. Or something like that.

 

Anyway i've never recovered from it.

 

CT's daughters approval is all your worried about

 

what's shiteseats *goes and looks*

 

Ohhh right the lads who did all that LeonBestIsMint crap on twitter, aye i had to remove following the people doing that, bored the balls of me personally, that and "ItsOverTheWall" whoever started that too.

 

Both rile me irrationally.

[Toonpack 9973]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

Edited September 26, 2011 by Toonpack

[peasepud 59]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

 

we had 5.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...=31315&st=0

[Toonpack 9973]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

 

we had 5.

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/index.php?...=31315&st=0

 

That'll larn me not to check what I read elsewhere

 

Main point stands though.

[Guest Your Name Here]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

[manc-mag 1]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

I dont make the observation as a direct comment on the transfer policy at all, but it's fair to say many of these 'games we should win' are games that NUFC routinely fuck up anyway. So that means that credit is clearly due to the team.

 

The fact that it's the best start since '94 is either praiseworthy in terms of performance or an indictment of certain previous 'superior' teams (or both).

[Toonpack 9973]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

Thing is you can't confirm if it's an easy start until the end of the season and league positions really pan out. You can only beat (or draw with) what's in front of you. This early in the season beating someone tends to have a much larger effect on their "immediate" relative league position. Aside from the top 3-4 this league is much of a muchness IMO.

 

Avoiding Man U, City and Chelski I suppose makes it easier than it could have been, but that's about as far as I'd go. Outside those 3 the league is very much in "any given Sunday" territory IMO.

[Guest Your Name Here]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

Thing is you can't confirm if it's an easy start until the end of the season and league positions really pan out. You can only beat (or draw with) what's in front of you. This early in the season beating someone tends to have a much larger effect on their "immediate" relative league position. Aside from the top 3-4 this league is much of a muchness IMO.

 

Avoiding Man U, City and Chelski I suppose makes it easier than it could have been, but that's about as far as I'd go. Outside those 3 the league is very much in "any given Sunday" territory IMO.

Precisely. It’s an argument that cuts both ways.

 

At this stage in the season random factors can have a disproportionate effect, which is why it’s better to look at performances... and on this front we’ve been decidedly average.

[The Fish 10972]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

Thing is you can't confirm if it's an easy start until the end of the season and league positions really pan out. You can only beat (or draw with) what's in front of you. This early in the season beating someone tends to have a much larger effect on their "immediate" relative league position. Aside from the top 3-4 this league is much of a muchness IMO.

 

Avoiding Man U, City and Chelski I suppose makes it easier than it could have been, but that's about as far as I'd go. Outside those 3 the league is very much in "any given Sunday" territory IMO.

Precisely. It’s an argument that cuts both ways.

 

At this stage in the season random factors can have a disproportionate effect, which is why it’s better to look at performances... and on this front we’ve been decidedly average.

I'd agree if I had no comparison to make. You look at last season, look at the performances of teams who've played similar opposition (B'burn is a very good example), look at performances of the players... you can compare this seasons performances.

 

However, my point is that we've played well in different styles dictated by different situations. The derby, the Arsenal game, the cup games, all demand something different from the team. We've been, at the very least, a cohesive team. We've taken points from teams we expect to be around come the end of the season. We've not looked over-awed when we've met a traditionally potent team and we've beaten the local rivals. What more do you want?

 

I don't think we've been average at all; we're creating chances, we're stifling opposition attacks, we're not lumping the ball to the big men (as evidenced in the last few games), we look sturdy at the back (evidenced by conceding the least in England*) and we'v e still got Ben Arfa, and Santon to (presumably) slot into the first team.

 

 

*haven't checked that stat, but it was mentioned by SkySports

Edited September 26, 2011 by The Fish

[Billy Whitehurst 933]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

There was fuck all 'narrow' about the Blackburn game, we played them off the park, 3-1 flattered them.

 

Agree we have a long way to go though, we've had an easy start to the season but have definitely exceeded expectations.

[ewerk 31216]

You can only beat what's in front of you.

[toonotl 3114]

And the fact that we've beaten the shit teams we have struggled to beat in the past speaks volumes.

 

I said a month or so back that if we were to treat this season's start in isolation from the past few years we would be applauding the start without hesitation. And I think that is starting to happen now.

 

'Winning ugly' is something good sides do. That's what we have been doing with the exception of last week when we played quite well. But the point remains playing poorly and winning is seen as an attribute of real quality sides, but for us it has been taken as the unmistakable sign of impending doom. That could have been a relevant argument before the Villa game. But we dominated Villa and never looked troubled by Blackburn. So now if we can maintain the level we could continue like this for awhile. Or at least until November, because we all know what happens then.

 

I think with this side, if they stay fit, we can do well this season.

[LeazesMag 0]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

 

[LeazesMag 0]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

it's bollocks really. It's just the sort of view that a 10 year old has in the playground tbh. We are 4th in the league after 6 games, after the easiest fixture start in decades, so we are now going to win the World Cup ? Next, these fools will be pissing their pants in excitement of it all.

 

Other message boards like skunkers and NO are full of this sort of crap, I thought those on here would have a bit more sense.

 

Maybe by the time they are 16, maybe, they will stop believing in fairies ....

[LeazesMag 0]

We are yet to win a game against a team in the top half of the table.

 

Maybe the teams that we have played are in the lower half because we weren't kind enough to lose to them ??

 

We got 3 total points last year from the same fixtures.

 

OH (edit) and good post Chez

That’s fair point but it could be that they are plain shite. Two narrow home wins against teams in 17th and 18th place is nowt to shout about, and the Mackems have a psychological problem when it comes to playing NUFC.

 

There’s far too much knee jerk drivel being spouted about our good start. Welcome as it is there is a long way to go before the reality of our transfer policy is known. It’s painful to watch opinion being blown around on the basis of a handful of random results.

 

I dont make the observation as a direct comment on the transfer policy at all, but it's fair to say many of these 'games we should win' are games that NUFC routinely fuck up anyway. So that means that credit is clearly due to the team.

 

The fact that it's the best start since '94 is either praiseworthy in terms of performance or an indictment of certain previous 'superior' teams (or both).

 

you're babbling on like a rock ape again man.