Newcastle United 3-1 Blackburn Rovers

[Gemmill 44935]

Concise.

[Dr Gloom 21941]

Concise.

 

no arguing with that tbf

[ChezGiven 0]

No I'm not.

[ChezGiven 0]

Only a fucking spastic can claim that McClaren discovered a reserve midfielder in the Twente squad btw.

[Dr Gloom 21941]

the atmosphere sounded canny on the sky highlights. is there a decent amount of noise being generated despite the closure of the singing section? did any of the leazes l7 lot manage to relocate enough of them to the same bit of the ground or was this just the crowd reacting to a good performance?

[Park Life 71]

Only a fucking spastic can claim that McClaren discovered a reserve midfielder in the Twente squad btw.

 

In this instance he's partly right.

 

 

*Sneaky edit.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Park Life

[The Fish 10858]

Once again, Carr did not " discover" Tiote. McClaren recommended him to us.

 

Correct.

Surely it's reasonable to say that Carr scouted and recommended Tiote after McClaren suggested the player?

 

I don't even know why this is a bone of contention? I cannot believe we'd sign a player based solely on a manager's recommendation, so there must have been some scouting. If that is true, it surely would have been Carr who made the final recommendation to the manager and the board?

 

I don't believe Carr just happened to have been watching RC Lens reserves, spotted Abeid and suggested we sign him, I think it more likely someone suggested he have a look.

[Park Life 71]

Carr+Sven+Mclaren = Tiote to Toon.

 

He was in and out the side so he was under the radar. McLaren emphasised he would be ideal for the PL.

 

Hughton tried to claim credit but had little to do with it apart from watch the vids Carr made.

[Park Life 71]

Once again, Carr did not " discover" Tiote. McClaren recommended him to us.

 

Correct.

Surely it's reasonable to say that Carr scouted and recommended Tiote after McClaren suggested the player?

 

I don't even know why this is a bone of contention? I cannot believe we'd sign a player based solely on a manager's recommendation, so there must have been some scouting. If that is true, it surely would have been Carr who made the final recommendation to the manager and the board?

 

I don't believe Carr just happened to have been watching RC Lens reserves, spotted Abeid and suggested we sign him, I think it more likely someone suggested he have a look.

 

I've recanted.

[StevenL 0]

Only a fucking spastic can claim that McClaren discovered a reserve midfielder in the Twente squad btw.

 

But sniffer said you were wrong. I don't know which side to take now.

[Barney 0]

Chez is right.

[The Fish 10858]

Once again, Carr did not " discover" Tiote. McClaren recommended him to us.

 

Correct.

Surely it's reasonable to say that Carr scouted and recommended Tiote after McClaren suggested the player?

 

I don't even know why this is a bone of contention? I cannot believe we'd sign a player based solely on a manager's recommendation, so there must have been some scouting. If that is true, it surely would have been Carr who made the final recommendation to the manager and the board?

 

I don't believe Carr just happened to have been watching RC Lens reserves, spotted Abeid and suggested we sign him, I think it more likely someone suggested he have a look.

 

I've recanted.

Saw that.

 

[toonotl 2987]

Ok, I didn't say that Carr would "prop up the club with brilliant signing after brilliant signing. You say we can't operate within a strict wage structure, but Spurs do, Arsenal do etc. Also, I didn't say we're going to be a force, simply that we'll tick along in the premier league and hopefully he'll maintain his record. I don't agree that this is a delusion, what so ever.

 

I've never said he was a "super scout" I said that he's more than capable. In Tiote, Cabaye, Ba, Marveaux and Abeid he's brought some exceptional, some seemingly promising players on the cheap. You're saying that despite this, you doubt he can do it again, fair enough, but don't think you're reasoning is built on anything more than a pessimistic supposition. At least my hope is based upon evidence of things we have already seen.

 

I know what you're trying to do; you're trying to manage expectations. That's all well and good, but please, read and understand a post before you try and pick it apart.

 

The crux of it is that I've said I hope for the best and expect something more feasible. You've ignored this and answered my post as if I'm expecting the infeasible and hoping for the impossible, which is foolish and as you say, makes you look a prick

 

You said Carr is adequate and you put your faith in him. I'm saying Carr will have to prop up the club with brilliant signing after brilliant signing if our wage structure is going to come anywhere near close to working because everytime he finds a good player he will be sold in 2/3 years. I'm saying he has to be a super scout to maintain the faith you have entrusted him with.

 

I didn't say anything about a strict wage structure, I said we can't persistantly pay under the odds for players both in terms of transfers and wages, (which is not comparable to Spurs or Arsenal, or Barca for that matter, enforcing a wage structure), unless Carr continues to find great signing time after time.

 

Carr's 'brilliant' signings have blown out a bit since last time? I don't count Ba, Marveaux or Abeid for various reasons, ie. Ba was known, Marveaux may have injury concerns, Abeid is a kid. So its Cabaye and Tiote who are the great signings and who will be sold if they play well.

 

'At least my hope is based upon evidence of things we have already seen'.

 

Thats the whole point I'm trying to make. How many great signings do you consider proof that your hope is valid? To me more than 2 would be the simple answer. Two points of data is not evidence. You say I'm attacking your hope. I'm not. We can all hope. I'm attacking your 'evidence' for that hope. What else could I do?

 

'I hope for the best and expect something more feasible'.

 

So is your hope based upon evidence or not? I expect something feasible as well. I also hope for things to happen. What I don't do is claim the latter is based on evidence when the former is so much more likely.

[McFaul 35]

Carr was the instigator of the Tiote signing "end off". No more discussion debating that is to admit you're a mug.

[Tom 14011]

Apparently they'd been watching him for a while before McLaren got there - besides Tiote was no 'reserve'.

[The Fish 10858]

You said Carr is adequate and you put your faith in him. I'm saying Carr will have to prop up the club with brilliant signing after brilliant signing if our wage structure is going to come anywhere near close to working because everytime he finds a good player he will be sold in 2/3 years. I'm saying he has to be a super scout to maintain the faith you have entrusted him with.

You're clearly not understanding simple points, but fuck it, I'm bored I'll try again.

 

At no point have I said that Graham Carr will single-handedly fatten the squad with perfect signing after perfect signing. I've said he's performed admirably so far and that my hope is that he'll continue. See that pesky word again? I coloured it in for you. It's a hope, not an expectation, it's a hope.

 

I didn't say anything about a strict wage structure,

Surely you understand what a wage structure is?

I said we can't persistantly pay under the odds for players both in terms of transfers and wages, (which is not comparable to Spurs or Arsenal, or Barca for that matter, enforcing a wage structure), unless Carr continues to find great signing time after time.

Nope, no, clearly not

 

Carr's 'brilliant' signings have blown out a bit since last time? I don't count Ba, Marveaux or Abeid for various reasons, ie. Ba was known, Marveaux may have injury concerns, Abeid is a kid. So its Cabaye and Tiote who are the great signings and who will be sold if they play well.

So hang on, you're discounting possibly good signings because you've decided that one "might" have injury problems, and one is a "kid". Even though one of the key things I want from a scout is the ability to find young players? fucking Hell, sometimes you make this too easy.

 

'At least my hope is based upon evidence of things we have already seen'.

 

Thats the whole point I'm trying to make. How many great signings do you consider proof that your hope is valid? To me more than 2 would be the simple answer. Two points of data is not evidence. You say I'm attacking your hope. I'm not. We can all hope. I'm attacking your 'evidence' for that hope. What else could I do?

Attacking my hope where have I said this? My stance is based on evidence. Yours is based on supposition. I rate Carr because, so far, he's done ok. and I hope he continues. So... let's run past that again because it's apparently causing you some confusion. I see a), I like a) and would like for a) to continue, but am not so addled minded to believe it's assured. It's a hope.

 

'I hope for the best and expect something more feasible'.

 

So is your hope based upon evidence or not? I expect something feasible as well. I also hope for things to happen. What I don't do is claim the latter is based on evidence when the former is so much more likely.

You realise that hopes can be based on things that have occurred? I'll give you another example:

Jimmy goes to the club and meets a girl, they dance, they kiss, a lovely time is had by all. Same thing happens 7 days later. The next week Jimmy goes back to the same club at roughly the same time and hopes to meet the same girl as, given that she was there the last 2 weeks at that time, past experience suggests she may be there again?

 

Look, I'm not an intellectual heavyweight, but I kind of feel like I'm pounding on a spastic here, either up your game or be quiet?

[toonotl 2987]

At no point have I said that Graham Carr will single-handedly fatten the squad with perfect signing after perfect signing. I've said he's performed admirably so far and that my hope is that he'll continue. See that pesky word again? I coloured it in for you. It's a hope, not an expectation, it's a hope.

 

I didn't say you said that. Read it again. I'm saying he will have to if your hope (which is apparently backed by evidence) is justified.

 

So hang on, you're discounting possibly good signings because you've decided that one "might" have injury problems, and one is a "kid". Even though one of the key things I want from a scout is the ability to find young players? fucking Hell, sometimes you make this too easy.

 

No. I'm discounting possible good signings in the future as being good signings now. Put simple Abeid is not a good signing yet, so he is not a good signing now. So you can't include him as more evidence for your stance. No matter how much you want to pad your statement it won't wash.

 

Attacking my hope where have I said this? My stance is based on evidence. Yours is based on supposition. I rate Carr because, so far, he's done ok. and I hope he continues. So... let's run past that again because it's apparently causing you some confusion. I see a), I like a) and would like for a) to continue, but am not so addled minded to believe it's assured. It's a hope.

 

Perhaps you should read the coloured bit of your response. Are you not defending your hope on the basis that you don't have to justify it? That is after all what hope is, unjustified belief. At no point have I said your hope is rediculous. I said your reasons for having it, which you don't actually need to raise, but did, so fair game, are rediculous. I'm certain the connection is escaping you.

 

Your stance is based upon a couple of points of data. That is not a complete data set that could be interpreted as evidence. Do you acknowledge that there is a difference between something happening twice and actual evidence that that something will occur in the future? Evidence is a compilation of data collected over time, declaring two incidences as evidence is rediculous. I'm certain at this point however that you honestly don't understand the difference.

 

You realise that hopes can be based on things that have occurred?

 

No. Really? You mean like if I win the lotto twice. I could then hope to keep on winning it forever? Do I have evidence to support my hope? No, I got lucky twice. But I can hope away to my hearts content.

 

This really confirms my suspicion that you in fact don't understand the argument.

 

Once more then. If you want to hope fine. Just don't say your hope is supported by evidence. Evidence and 'things that occur' are different things. Yes. Evidence is made up of things that occur, but there is a certain quantity and quality that must be attached to these things that qualifies them as evidence. I don't know why I'm bothering to be honest because this was expressed rather clearly the first two times.

 

Look, I'm not an intellectual heavyweight, but I kind of feel like I'm pounding on a spastic here, either up your game or be quiet?

 

 

Clearly. With your inability to understand the concepts of hope and evidence I'm not suprised you feel you're doing well.

 

I almost didn't have the heart to try and explain it to you again. But I'm a patient person I guess.

Edited September 27, 2011 by toonotl

[Kitman 2207]

I've no idea what this debate is about.

[PaddockLad 17284]

Carr+Sven+Mclaren = Tiote to Toon.

 

He was in and out the side so he was under the radar. McLaren emphasised he would be ideal for the PL.

 

Hughton tried to claim credit but had little to do with it apart from watch the vids Carr made.

Nobody saw him play at least 3 games for his country at the world cup a month be fore he signed then? ;-)

[snakehips 0]

The very fact Tiote was an African playing (reserve or not) in Europe completely rules out him being an 'unknown'. If he wasn't known by the agents when he left Africa his name would have been in every good agent's book once he went to Twente Enchede. The fact his fee was £3m+ indicates he wasn't a nobody reservist.

 

Someone has to take some credit for highlighting his worth to the Prem, but exactly who that person is I don't know.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3900]

Hope.

 

The capacity for hope is the most significant fact of life. It provides human beings with a sense of destination and the energy to get started.--Norman Cousins

 

But groundless hope, like unconditional love, is the only kind worth having.-- John Perry Barlow

 

He that lives in hope danceth without musick.--George Herbert

 

He who has health has hope. And he who has hope has everything.--Arabian Porverb

 

I am not an optimist, because I am not sure that everything ends well. Nor am I a pessimist, because I am not sure that everything ends badly. I just carry hope in my heart--Vaclav Havel

 

Nothing about hope having to be based on evidence like.

[Tooj 17]

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Johan?

 

edit; That's some awful handwriting.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Tecato

[Matt 0]

"Chieck" appears to contain a letter from an ancient alphabet.

[McFaul 35]

Everyone gets a nickname or their christian/muslim name apart from poor Best.