The Fish 10685 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I've two hopes: We continue to unearth diamonds in the rough and keep making progress up the table, adjusting our budgets as we go, until we're genuinely challenging again We're bought by a Sheikh Mansour/Bill Gates and usurp one of the top 5. However I think it's more likely we'll stay as we are for decades; a mid-table club who finds stars and sells them on. £10 million for striker is not big money in today's market. It doesn't even buy a top class striker. And Ashley won't even spend that much. Are you suggesting Carr is a better scout by himself than the scouting network of ManU, Chelsea, ManCity, Liverpool, Arsenal, Real Madrid, Barcelona, etc etc etc.. and that we can go on relying on him to find bargains who turn into gold ad infinitum? That's not a hope thats delusional. Your hope should be that we remain a mid-table club as long as Ashley is in charge. Even that is pushing the envelope. Well, given Liverpool were in the market for a central midfield player and went for a vastly over priced Henderson ahead of Cabaye... Man U, Man City, Chelsea operate on a different level to us at the moment. We (and Arsenal) scout for potential gems, the others can afford to look at the finished product, or at least players on the cusp. So no, I'm not suggesting Carr is a better scout than the entire scouting network of the biggest football clubs on the planet I'm stating, that; as we cannot spend the big bucks on fees, nor wages, we have to rely on our scouting network. If Tiote, Cabaye and Ben Arfa are indicative of future windows I think we can put faith in our network to improve us piece by piece. I think over the course of his tenure he's proven he's a more than capable scout for a club like us. That's not delusional at all, it's a statement based on past events. I think you're mistaking hope for prediction. You should hope for the best, not simply what's currently feasible, otherwise what's the point in hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 (edited) I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. Said the same in the match thread about getting Bafra on...With him and Marveux moving and finding space and one touch passing going on...It looked silky. Blackburn must have felt like they just stepped of fair ride. Also a bit worried that Pards won't drop Best to accomodate Hartem. Edited September 25, 2011 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 The sad fact is that while Carr may be able to uncover midfield gems, striker-wise I think its hard to do the same. Good strikers smash em in and is instantly on everybodys radar, regardless of scouting. Then the price rockets. I think when it comes to strikers you may have to pay what the player is worth, and I cant see mike doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. When Ben Arfa, Marveaux and Cabaye were on the pitch, with others joining in we definitely saw a spell of passing that like you say hasn't happened for a long time, it was people with great first touch, natural and comfortable on the ball and moving around to pass and recieve and it was good to see. Agree about Ba, couldn't believe the people on here and at the match writing him off when he was playing football on no food and was still settling into the team not even playing full matches, but that's the way it is these days, if you don't look like Messi after 5 mins, your crap. And it isn't racist at all its a fair point about fasting, if theres going to be a month in which you can't do your job properly, you shouldn't get your full wages if you ask me, but no chance it would ever happen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. I'd attribute that to his lack of a pre-season and the whole Visa farce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 The sad fact is that while Carr may be able to uncover midfield gems, striker-wise I think its hard to do the same. Good strikers smash em in and is instantly on everybodys radar, regardless of scouting. Then the price rockets. I think when it comes to strikers you may have to pay what the player is worth, and I cant see mike doing that. Definitely harder to snatch a proven finisher on the cheap, you can gamble on a lower league player or one from a country who's league is poor and hope they step up, or go for a very young player withe potential but strikers already good enough and ready to play at the top level cost money as we won't pay it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Ashley has been lucky the way Best has worked out. He's scored 10 goals in the league this calendar year - £35m man has scored 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. I'd attribute that to his lack of a pre-season and the whole Visa farce. When you combine the fasting with the his pre-season he was actually playing pretty well considering! But when you watched the Villa game and especially the Blackburn game you remembered quite how good he is and it was great to see against Rovers that he broke up play continuously but never looked at all likely to be booked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. I'd attribute that to his lack of a pre-season and the whole Visa farce. The fact he's had nee scran won't have helped though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Castell 0 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. Said the same in the match thread about getting Bafra on...With him and Marveux moving and finding space and one touch passing going on...It looked silky. Blackburn must have felt like they just stepped of fair ride. Also a bit worried that Pards won't drop Best to accomodate Hartem. We are on a fairground this whole season-that rollercoaster that was in a Final Destination film. Sadly the bit where they cheat death for a while seems to be missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4365 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. No different to the fuckers in the past who wouldn't play on a Sunday - the way people just shrug and accept is just cowardice imo - no matter which faith. Though I would also say this is the first time I've seen it used as an excuse - and I don't believe he's the first devout one in the English game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think Blackburn must be doing Michel Salgado a favour playing him, one of THE worst players in the Premiership in my view. I feel sorry for Steve Kean me for the stick he gets, what to Rovershhh fans expect? I think 17th is success for a club of their size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteroidblitz 12 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I thought for ten minutes after Ben Arfa came on, we played football we haven't seen here for a long long time. It definitely wasn't British football but I liked it all the same. I knew Ba would come good, but I made a point at the match which may seem racist, but if we sign any more muslims, we should ask them if they practise this ridiculous fasting at ramadan, if they do we should say right well we'll pay you 11 months money, because Tiote's been shit, and Ba didn't look like Ba till yesterday, he was excellent. Don't like Pardew's crack about potentially not signing a striker if him and Best keep it up though. Ramadan falls about 10 days earlier each calendar year, so we'll be good signing muslims for at least the next 3-4 years as it starts kicking in to the close-season/pre-season period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteroidblitz 12 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 When you combine the fasting with the his pre-season he was actually playing pretty well considering! But when you watched the Villa game and especially the Blackburn game you remembered quite how good he is and it was great to see against Rovers that he broke up play continuously but never looked at all likely to be booked! Fasting has little bearing on fitness levels, it's the body clock that suffers. If we were playing games at, say midnight after they've had their iftar (sunset) meal and had time to digest, then it would be no different to playing a match at midday kick-off on a normal daytime diet. Ba (and Tiote?) was playing like it was a 3am kickoff in his first couple of games. Most muslims simply turn night into day during ramadan and have their 3 square meals during the night and kip during the day. In fact most of my muslim colleagues complain that they put on weight during the holy month. I complain that I can't have a tab in public until sundown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Muslim players FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Praise Alan! Praise Alan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Praise Alan! Praise Alan! Reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteroidblitz 12 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 I think Blackburn must be doing Michel Salgado a favour playing him, one of THE worst players in the Premiership in my view. I feel sorry for Steve Kean me for the stick he gets, what to Rovershhh fans expect? I think 17th is success for a club of their size. Looked absolutely knackered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asteroidblitz 12 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Praise Alan! Praise Alan! Alan akbar, tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 You've wooshed me there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman02uk 0 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 it means Alan is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted September 25, 2011 Author Share Posted September 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2204 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 As I understand it from one of Muslim colleagues, you can eat during the day as long as you pay a penance (for instance a donation). Whilst I respect cultural differences I think our Muslim players could stretch to this arrangement around match days for the duration of their short playing careers. Plenty of time for devotion when they've retired..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2948 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Well, given Liverpool were in the market for a central midfield player and went for a vastly over priced Henderson ahead of Cabaye... Man U, Man City, Chelsea operate on a different level to us at the moment. We (and Arsenal) scout for potential gems, the others can afford to look at the finished product, or at least players on the cusp. So no, I'm not suggesting Carr is a better scout than the entire scouting network of the biggest football clubs on the planet I'm stating, that; as we cannot spend the big bucks on fees, nor wages, we have to rely on our scouting network. If Tiote, Cabaye and Ben Arfa are indicative of future windows I think we can put faith in our network to improve us piece by piece. I think over the course of his tenure he's proven he's a more than capable scout for a club like us. That's not delusional at all, it's a statement based on past events. I think you're mistaking hope for prediction. You should hope for the best, not simply what's currently feasible, otherwise what's the point in hope? You're right we should hope for the best, but it should be feasible, and hoping for Carr to prop up the club with brilliant signing after brilliant signing is not going to happen. Just my opinion, but I can't even entertain the idea that somehow we can go on paying under the odds both in transfer fees and wages and come up smelling of roses often enough for it to make us a force. I'd agree you probably see yourself as basing your opinion on past events, and you are to an extend, but I would argue there is more hope than experience involved because Tiote and Cabaye (who has played 6 PL games by the way) are all well and good, but two great signings is not enough to confirm to me that he can do it forever (I don't include Ben Arfa because everyone knew he was a player and he signed with us because he has a reputation, a reputation that may rear its ugly head one day.) What happens when we sell Tiote and if Cabaye continues to perform we sell him too? You may think Carr can do it again? I'm not so sure. For me there is not enough evidence that Carr is some sort of super scout. Two great signings close together does not make him some brilliant scouting mastermind. It more likely makes him, and by proxy us, very lucky. There can be no argument that the most likely explanation at this stage is luck. And it will continue to be so until he consistantly signs top players on the cheap for an extended period of time. And the crux of it is, if it is luck then we can't expect Carr to get lucky on our behalf forever. Note: I'm not trying to be a prick here, sometimes I notice during these sort of debates I come across as such. This is all good natured debate on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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