Obama once again showing America is Israel's lapdog.

[McFaul 35]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

I'm against the frequent balkanization of the world, it can only lead in more problems, with so many national identities surely they're all gonna clash

 

No! I'm saying they should live in Israel and be happy, if the Palestinians came out and said "Okay, we're going to live in peace in Israel" i'm sure they'll be accepted with open arms. Similarly why can't they go to these countries like Syria that seem to care so much about them? Would these people be badly treated in Syria? Is there a national culture to preserve?

I doubt there's a need per se.

Oui, which shows what would happen if the Palestinians didn't get so chinny.

Yes and no, if they stopped asking for the world and were prepared to negotiate properly, sure, I mean it's not personally what i'd go for but anything to stop all this fighting.

What a fuckin idiot

[McFaul 35]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

 

Parky isn't pro-palestinian. He just hates jews.

 

I bet he drives through Gateshead and says "there's one".

 

I wonder why McFool isn't all over you like a cheap suit, Parky?

Stop copying off me.

[Dolly Potter MD 0]

The shitstorm created by the Israel Lobby paper (and the selective dropping of the A-word against the co-authors, and attempted ostracisation that went on) is very similar to what took place with Finklestein, whose days as a paid university professor were numbered when he published a book attacking the Holocaust Racket.

 

These influential Jewish Groups/persons are pretty adept at silencing critics/performing hatchet jobs on them. The prosecution of Truficant being a case in point. Of course Finklestein, and in views, were vindicated (Traficant as well, as he was on AIPAC's hit-list) when Sherr (on AIPAC's executive committee at one stage iirc, and a noted hatchet man) was done for stealing from the Holocaust compensation coffers.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Year Zero

[Park Life 71]

The shitstorm created by the Israel Lobby paper (and the selective dropping of the A-word against the co-authors, and attempted ostracisation that went on) is very similar to what took place with Finklestein, whose days as a paid university professor were numbered when he published a book attacking the Holocaust Racket.

 

These influential Jewish Groups/persons are pretty adept at silencing critics/performing hatchet jobs on them. The prosecution of Truficant being a case in point. Of course Finklestein, and in views, were vindicated (Traficant as well, as he was on AIPAC's hit-list) when Sherr (on AIPAC's executive committee at one stage iirc, and a noted hatchet man) was done for stealing from the Holocaust compensation coffers.

 

5min in...

 

"We're condcuting the expansionsit policy of Iarael and everyboyd is afraid to say it.."

 

8.30 in...

"Obama's hands are tied"...

 

 

Edited September 22, 2011 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

[Park Life 71]

"No shortcut to statehood" Obama

 

America will veto.

 

 

[CleeToonFan 1]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

[ewerk 31225]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

 

There's never been a unified Ireland yet I've never heard that argument used against the idea.

[Park Life 71]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

 

There's never been a unified Ireland yet I've never heard that argument used against the idea.

 

It threw me completely last night.

[Guest alex]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

I suppose you could argue it was one when it was a British Mandate which wasn't that long ago. In any case, Israel (in its current incarnation) is a modern invention, rather than being based on a previously existing country. I don't think the fact that a country hasn't existed before is, necessarily, an argument against its existence now or in the future though.

[CleeToonFan 1]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

 

There's never been a unified Ireland yet I've never heard that argument used against the idea.

No, but there have been Irish people ruling over their separate counties etc, and a definite "Irish culture".

 

In some cases I just don't think enough of a national identity exists, nationhood is a very serious thing and the only thing Palestine has is a deep hatred for Israel, there's no Palestinian culture per se, some things just aren't meant to be. It's the same in Europe with Kosovo and everything, that's why I mentioned Balkanization, which led me to be called a "fuckin(g) idiot". There's so many independence movements nowadays that i'm sure the entire world won't be happy until we have a Holy Roman Empire-esque creature in Europe.

 

Not that any of that's related other than one thing, there's no need for Palestine and no need for so many fucking independence movements. Also, this pre-1967 borders shit, Israel HAD to start the Six-Day war, and the gains they got in those six days were vital for the defence of Israel, if the Arab world just let them be from the start they wouldn't have had to go to war with them

[ewerk 31225]

You're simply the other side of the Parky coin.

 

Personally I'm not that arsed about it anyway.

Edited September 22, 2011 by ewerk

[Guest alex]

I reckon the average Palestinian would argue the need for a Palestine.

[CleeToonFan 1]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

I suppose you could argue it was one when it was a British Mandate which wasn't that long ago. In any case, Israel (in its current incarnation) is a modern invention, rather than being based on a previously existing country. I don't think the fact that a country hasn't existed before is, necessarily, an argument against its existence now or in the future though.

Yes, but the Jews are a mostly homogenous race, hence the stereotypes that people have which are surprisingly true a lot of the time, and that race originates from todays Israel. You've heard of being anti-Semitic? That means hating the Jews right? the Semites were people that lived in what is Israel, Arabia etc, and always had done, until the Muslims came and took over. Historically, it's their homeland, and the Muslims came much later, the thing is, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, and that's why it shouldn't be given sovereignty over Levantine lands.

[Guest alex]

You're simply the other side of the Parky coin.

 

Personally I'm not that arsed about it anyway.

I'd echo both those sentiments.

[ewerk 31225]

I reckon the average Palestinian would argue the need for a Palestine.

 

They can all fuck off to Syria apparently, they're all the same anyway.

[CleeToonFan 1]

I reckon the average Palestinian would argue the need for a Palestine.

 

They can all fuck off to Syria apparently, they're all the same anyway.

Well, they are the same, in that they're the same peoples! I was trying to get some facts to back me up online and well

 

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:

 

The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

 

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

 

So what's the difference between Palestine and Jordan? Very little, they see themselves as Arab, not Palestinian.

[Guest alex]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

I suppose you could argue it was one when it was a British Mandate which wasn't that long ago. In any case, Israel (in its current incarnation) is a modern invention, rather than being based on a previously existing country. I don't think the fact that a country hasn't existed before is, necessarily, an argument against its existence now or in the future though.

Yes, but the Jews are a mostly homogenous race, hence the stereotypes that people have which are surprisingly true a lot of the time, and that race originates from todays Israel. You've heard of being anti-Semitic? That means hating the Jews right? the Semites were people that lived in what is Israel, Arabia etc, and always had done, until the Muslims came and took over. Historically, it's their homeland, and the Muslims came much later, the thing is, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, and that's why it shouldn't be given sovereignty over Levantine lands.

Getting into who was there first is no real basis for deciding who should live where in the modern world anyway. Historically, it's both their homelands because they've both been there for many generations. Arguing there is no such thing as a Palestinian people ignores the current reality. I wasn't arguing against a Jewish homeland btw but it shouldn't be at the expense of the Muslims (and Christians) who also share that land. I don't have the answers or claim to have them, I just don't agree with your argument.

[CleeToonFan 1]

So just to clarify, noone can tell me about when Palestine has ever been a country? I've been called an idiot who knows nothing about the situation, and I can take that, personal slagging off at me for no reason is fine, not answering questions not so

I suppose you could argue it was one when it was a British Mandate which wasn't that long ago. In any case, Israel (in its current incarnation) is a modern invention, rather than being based on a previously existing country. I don't think the fact that a country hasn't existed before is, necessarily, an argument against its existence now or in the future though.

Yes, but the Jews are a mostly homogenous race, hence the stereotypes that people have which are surprisingly true a lot of the time, and that race originates from todays Israel. You've heard of being anti-Semitic? That means hating the Jews right? the Semites were people that lived in what is Israel, Arabia etc, and always had done, until the Muslims came and took over. Historically, it's their homeland, and the Muslims came much later, the thing is, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people, and that's why it shouldn't be given sovereignty over Levantine lands.

Getting into who was there first is no real basis for deciding who should live where in the modern world anyway. Historically, it's both their homelands because they've both been there for many generations. Arguing there is no such thing as a Palestinian people ignores the current reality. I wasn't arguing against a Jewish homeland btw but it shouldn't be at the expense of the Muslims (and Christians) who also share that land. I don't have the answers or claim to have them, I just don't agree with your argument.

Yes, and there's heaps of Muslim nations, and 1 Jewish nation, which obviously should be built around Jerusalem. They're using Palestine as a way of completely defeating Israel, which has many Christians ans Muslims living happily within its borders, and takes care of the injured Palestinians who come to its hospitals etc. Propaganda is making Israel look evil, it's not perfect, and there's two sides to a story, some of the treatment of the "Palestinian" people are awful, but then the way they treat the Israeli's is awful too, the point is, two wrongs don't make a right, and no side of this is perfect

[Guest alex]

I think I'll leave it at that as we head towards cliche bingo.

[CleeToonFan 1]

Oui, me too, it's clear i'm not gonna budge my stance on the issue, it's clear Park Life won't either, it's also clear that noone else gives a shit and bickering between Newcastle United fans won't change anything... and it's basically becoming transparent.

[acrossthepond 878]

Please stop before you hurt yourself, Clee.

[ewerk 31225]

I blame Freshers Week meself.

[Guest alex]

I blame Freshers Week meself.

Bet he's joined the Young Conservatives.

[CleeToonFan 1]

I blame Freshers Week meself.

Bet he's joined the Young Conservatives.

Since when have I supported the Conservatives?