Obama once again showing America is Israel's lapdog.

[SteveAustin 0]

Alex, google history of jewish persecution and have a little read, you'll get the jist of what I'm saying.

[Park Life 71]

The fear is manufactured by the state in Israel (self serving political capital), the pavlovian sirens etc..The Israeli's are in an existential way as much hostage to their leaders as Palestine are in a literal sense.

 

About 28 Israeli's have died in rocket attacks in the last 15 years. Car accidents kill about 200 a year.

[Park Life 71]

Alex, google history of jewish persecution and have a little read, you'll get the jist of what I'm saying.

Uh oh!

[Alex 34765]

Alex, google history of jewish persecution and have a little read, you'll get the jist of what I'm saying.

You're being very evasive here. You brought up Exodus in the context of the history of Jewish persecution by Arabs / Muslims. As if to say it was even going on in on a massive scale in Biblical times. I asked you to back that up with some evidence and you obviously can't do so.

[SteveAustin 0]

Do you have a point to make or are you just picking one thing out to have a row about ?

 

Yes Exodus was a story, I've said that, what I'm saying is similar incidents happened.

 

Do you really need me to quote examples?

 

I can If you want but its a lot of typing.

 

No evasion involved, look it up and educate yourself, look at Jewishvoice.org

[Alex 34765]

Do you have a point to make or are you just picking one thing out to have a row about ?

The reason I picked up on it was because I didn't think it was true. Saying Biblical events have some historical basis (especially like in this case when there's little or no evidence to back that up) is not a million miles away from using holy texts as a justification for actions. Note that I am not saying you are doing this but noting the link and where that type of thinking can ultimately lead.

 

Yes Exodus was a story, I've said that, what I'm saying is similar incidents happened.

No you didn't say that. You said that Exodus "has some basis in historical happenings".

 

Do you really need me to quote examples?

I'm not really sure what you mean by similar to Exodus so perhaps you should provide the examples you're alluding to, then we can discuss them if you like. Bear in mind though that you were arguing about

events such as this being a "recurrent thread for the last couple of thousand years". So to back that up you really need to be talking things which predate the current Arab-Israeli conflict which has its roots in the late nineteenth century.

 

I can If you want but its a lot of typing.

Go ahead. Or just copy and paste stuff if you like or even just provide a short description with links.

 

No evasion involved, look it up and educate yourself, look at Jewishvoice.org

When you bring something up in a discussion, the onus is really on you to be able to back it up. If you're asked to do so, telling the person who asked to 'educate yourself', 'google it' or whatever is being evasive. And, perhaps I'm being cynical here, but I'm not convinced Jewishvoice.org is a particularly balanced source. However, if you can provide a link where they show compelling evidence that Exodus has some historical basis then I'll be happy to have a look at it.

[Park Life 71]

You've been sorely missed Alexstein.

[aimaad22 4103]

look at Jewishvoice.org

 

[Park Life 71]

[SteveAustin 0]

I am trying to post a couple of links, but this site wont let me, not sure why.

 

You can doubt what I say and would likely say the sites I'm trying to link to are also biased. As is every news site, biased to the agenda they are trying to put forward.

 

Maybe you doubt that there have been forced conversions, mass expulsions, synagogue burnings and mass executions in Persia, Byzantium etc, look it up.

 

Judea was the Jewish homeland and hasn't existed for many centuries.

 

If you choose to believe that this is a problem that has existed since the formation of the new Israeli nation, crack on.

 

Yes, the Exodus as told in the bible didn't happen exactly like that, but similar events did and could be considered on a par with what is happening in Syria now, surely you can see the similarity.? No?

[The Fish 10681]

Do the Russian Orthodox Jews have much political/financial influence these days?

[Park Life 71]

I am trying to post a couple of links, but this site wont let me, not sure why.

 

You can doubt what I say and would likely say the sites I'm trying to link to are also biased. As is every news site, biased to the agenda they are trying to put forward.

 

Maybe you doubt that there have been forced conversions, mass expulsions, synagogue burnings and mass executions in Persia, Byzantium etc, look it up.

 

Judea was the Jewish homeland and hasn't existed for many centuries.

 

If you choose to believe that this is a problem that has existed since the formation of the new Israeli nation, crack on.

 

Yes, the Exodus as told in the bible didn't happen exactly like that, but similar events did and could be considered on a par with what is happening in Syria now, surely you can see the similarity.? No?

You're gonna get fucked in the ass if you carry on with this biblical shit.

[Monkeys Fist 42000]

If we are justifying this because of centuries old past events, I'm focken outraged that we in the UK aren't now lobbing rockets at Saxony, Normandy, Denmark and Norway.

Italy can have some too.

[Rayvin 5164]

Italy can have some too.

 

Is that just on principle or are we thinking of the Romans here?

[Monkeys Fist 42000]

Dormouse eating expansionist twats.

[Alex 34765]

I am trying to post a couple of links, but this site wont let me, not sure why.

Are you saying you can't copy and paste links now? Just mention the specifc events you're talking about then.

 

You can doubt what I say and would likely say the sites I'm trying to link to are also biased. As is every news site, biased to the agenda they are trying to put forward.

Yeah but you we're talking about historical events here which you claim there is historical evidence for. News sites etc. may have bias (although some are obviously more so than than others) but I'll settle for the Encyclopedia Brittanica, Wikipedia or whatever. It should be in sources like that if they're events which mainstream historians or whatever suggest there's good evidence for. As for doubting what you say, you haven't even said which events you're on about, apart from the Exodus bit which I dispute and you still haven't backed up.

 

Maybe you doubt that there have been forced conversions, mass expulsions, synagogue burnings and mass executions in Persia, Byzantium etc, look it up.

I'm not sure how relevant that is in terms of the Arab-Israeli conflict given Persians are a distinct ethnic group to the Arabs and both groups would consider that to be the case. Also Byzantium was an ancient Greek City. If you're referring to the Byzantine Empire, that was the Eastern part of the Roman Empire after it was divided. Its capital was Constantinople (previously Byzantium and now Istanbul) and the eastern Roman Empire was Christian at this point so nothing to do with the Arabs at all. It was later conquered by the Ottoman Empire, i.e. the Turks and guess what - they aren't even Arabs either.

 

Judea was the Jewish homeland and hasn't existed for many centuries.

And? Both sides have historical / religious claims on the lands in question, hence the conflict.

 

If you choose to believe that this is a problem that has existed since the formation of the new Israeli nation, crack on.

I mentioned the roots of the 'recent' problems being in the late 19th century which is some 60 or so years before the formation of Israel, so even in that context alone the view you are attempting to attribute to me bears no relation to what I've stated.

 

Yes, the Exodus as told in the bible didn't happen exactly like that, but similar events did and could be considered on a par with what is happening in Syria now, surely you can see the similarity.? No?

I'm not really sure where to start with this last one and I really don't know what point you're trying to make. If Exodus didn't happen exactly like it did in the Bible, how did it happen? Provide some sources too if you can unstick your Ctrl button. And that's the second time you've mentioned similar events without saying what they were. Also, what point are you trying to make by bringing up the Syrian civil war?

Edited August 1, 2014 by Alex

[SteveAustin 0]

I'm saying it didn't happen like that.

 

I don't understand that its not understood that this is a 2000 year old conflict, both sides have dug in against each other and both appear to want the other side wiped out.

 

Its not just since the formation of Israel, perhaps I'm trying to highlight it in the wrong way, but the point still stands.

 

I follow no religion.

 

All historical data can be twisted to a point of view, but not of that is being discussed, just one statement from a few that have been made.

[Park Life 71]

The 'Jews' nicked most of their 'stories' from their time in Egypt. And those were some pretty big time star gods worshipping, child sacrificing, magic-blue-water lily eating, wind dancing, swarthy mother fuckers.

[Rayvin 5164]

In the interests of advancing this discussion: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_for_the_Exodus

 

First line states that mainstream archaeology and history claim it never happened and is entirely fictional.

 

Steve, I would just concede the point mate. I know what you're driving at but I think your argument is being lost on this particular point.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Rayvin

[Alex 34765]

Thanks for clearing that up, Steve. I've learnt a lot.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Alex

[SteveAustin 0]

Alex,

 

What side of the fence are you sitting here, I'm not sure. All I'm saying is the situation goes back further than the last 70 years, you seem unwilling to accept that, its a point of view I hold.

 

Do you agree or disagree?

[Park Life 71]

Ohh fuck Baggio!! Shit gonna get real.

[ChezGiven 0]

One of the great testaments to this forum is that Parky (real name Fritz von Judmörder) and Dr G (real name Eli Goldberg) have never fully fallen out despite their obvious ideological differences.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ChezGiven

[Alex 34765]

Alex,

 

What side of the fence are you sitting here, I'm not sure. All I'm saying is the situation goes back further than the last 70 years, you seem unwilling to accept that, its a point of view I hold.

 

Do you agree or disagree?

That question doesn't even make sense in relation to what I've already posted unless you think the 19th century refers to years starting in 19 rather than 18.

[SteveAustin 0]

So you are saying there has been no conflict between Jews and Arabs in the area of Israel/Palestine before the turn of the 18/19th century?