Obama once again showing America is Israel's lapdog.

[Park Life 71]

Sarkozy vented his frustration at one point:

 

Nous ne pouvons plus attendre. La méthode utilisée jusqu'à présent a échoué? Changeons la méthode!

 

[We cannot wait any longer. If the method used so far isn't working, then change the method.]"

 

 

Mustafa Barghouti, an independent politician and former Palestinian presidential candidate, said he was very disappointed by Obama's speech. "It clearly shows the double standards of the US when it comes to the Palestinian issue. Obama spoke about freedom, human rights, justice in South Sudan, Tunisia, Egypt – but not for the Palestinians.

 

"He wants us to be hostage to those who are oppressing us by going back to negotiations," he said, adding that 20 years of talks had gained nothing. The absence of any mention of the 1967 borders was surprising."

[Billy Castell 0]

[CleeToonFan 1]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

[Park Life 71]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

[CleeToonFan 1]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

[The Fish 10972]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

Less "pro-Palestine" more "pro-final solution"

 

[Dr Gloom 22182]

parky's a closet towel head

[CleeToonFan 1]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

Less "pro-Palestine" more "pro-final solution"

 

Oh yeah, forgot he lived in Germany, and as you know, EVERY German ever loves killing EVERY other race (luckily they class us as Germanic, so lets fucking get stuck in!)

[Park Life 71]

Tel Aviv demonstrators call for Palestinian state

 

June 5, 2011

 

JERUSALEM (JTA) -- About 5,000 people marched through central Tel Aviv to express support for a Palestinian state based on the pre-1967 borders.

 

The march on Saturday night was sponsored by several left-wing political parties and organizations, including Peace Now, Meretz, Hadash, the Labor Party, the National Left, the Peace NGO Forum, Combatants for Peace, Gush Shalom and Other Voice. Israeli media outlets estimated the number of protesters at about 5,000; organizers said 20,000 people participated.

 

The march was called "Netanyahu said no - We say yes to a Palestinian state." Marchers carried signs reading "Palestinian state - An Israeli interest," "Jews and Arabs refuse to be enemies," "Bibi, recognize the Palestinians," and "Yes, we KEN." Ken is Hebrew for "yes."

 

Several dozen right-wing activists held a counter-demonstration at the start of the march..."

 

 

Palestinian statehood: plan emerges to avoid UN showdown

 

Compromise would see Mahmoud Abbas submit letter to security council, which would then defer vote until further talks

 

 

Mahmoud Abbas

Mahmoud Abbas: the Palestinian president could claim a victory by saying he had achieved his principal goal of breaking the deadlock. Photograph: Seth Wenig/AP

 

International efforts to forestall a showdown in the UN security council over the declaration of a Palestinian state are solidifying around a plan for the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, to submit a request for recognition but for a vote on the issue to be put on hold while a new round of peace talks is launched.

 

The deal is being pushed by the Middle East "Quartet" of the UN, EU, US and Russia, which is attempting to persuade Abbas to back away from a diplomatic confrontation with Washington, which says it will veto the Palestinian bid.

 

 

 

 

The Palestinians want the pomp and formality of applying for full membership, and the benefit of whatever political pressure gathers behind Abbas's widely anticipated address at the New York headquarters midday on Sept. 23. The speech will be before the General Assembly, where the reception should be on the tumultuous side from a gathering of 193 nations, as many as 170 of which, according to al-Maliki, would support the Palestinian bid. (Such a margin would be a whopper; the number of states who formally recognize a Palestinian state to date stands at 127.)

 

Read more: http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/09/1.../#ixzz1YcvgNwV9

[ewerk 31221]

Go on Cleetoon, don't be shy.

[CleeToonFan 1]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

[Park Life 71]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

[tooner 243]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

 

 

 

 

+1

[CleeToonFan 1]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

I'm against the frequent balkanization of the world, it can only lead in more problems, with so many national identities surely they're all gonna clash

 

No! I'm saying they should live in Israel and be happy, if the Palestinians came out and said "Okay, we're going to live in peace in Israel" i'm sure they'll be accepted with open arms. Similarly why can't they go to these countries like Syria that seem to care so much about them? Would these people be badly treated in Syria? Is there a national culture to preserve?

I doubt there's a need per se.

Oui, which shows what would happen if the Palestinians didn't get so chinny.

Yes and no, if they stopped asking for the world and were prepared to negotiate properly, sure, I mean it's not personally what i'd go for but anything to stop all this fighting.

[Park Life 71]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

I'm against the frequent balkanization of the world, it can only lead in more problems, with so many national identities surely they're all gonna clash

 

No! I'm saying they should live in Israel and be happy, if the Palestinians came out and said "Okay, we're going to live in peace in Israel" i'm sure they'll be accepted with open arms. Similarly why can't they go to these countries like Syria that seem to care so much about them? Would these people be badly treated in Syria? Is there a national culture to preserve?

I doubt there's a need per se.

Oui, which shows what would happen if the Palestinians didn't get so chinny.

Yes and no, if they stopped asking for the world and were prepared to negotiate properly, sure, I mean it's not personally what i'd go for but anything to stop all this fighting.

 

I can see sadly you know nothing about the subject.

 

Thanks for the input anyway.

[sniffer 0]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

 

Parky isn't pro-palestinian. He just hates jews.

 

I bet he drives through Gateshead and says "there's one".

 

I wonder why McFool isn't all over you like a cheap suit, Parky?

[sniffer 0]

Ooops....forgot the

[Park Life 71]

This is such a sensitive subject (And i'm really anti-Palestine whilst some of my friends are pro-Palestine) that a discussion never ends without an argument

 

An alarm bell just went off in Parky Towers.

I'm guessing you're also pro-Palestine? In which case i'll leave it, nothing good could come of this . Also, at my freshers fayre yesterday the Jewish society was conveniently placed otehr side of the hall to the free (what does that even mean!?) Palestine society, i'd have put them next to each other.

 

Parky isn't pro-palestinian. He just hates jews.

 

I bet he drives through Gateshead and says "there's one".

 

I wonder why McFool isn't all over you like a cheap suit, Parky?

 

NOT NOW KATO!!

[Park Life 71]

Ooops....forgot the

 

No worries. [wink/]

[sniffer 0]

I couldn't afford to pass that one up.

[CleeToonFan 1]

It annoys me how every province thinks it deserves to be a country. Tell me Park Life, when has Palestine ever been a state? I mean I can think of British Mandates, Israel, Ottoman Empire, Kingdom of Jerusalem etc etc but I can't think of Palestine (bar the name of the British mandate, but that means very little), also, what would Palestine offer that the other Muslim countries around it wouldn't? There are heaps of Muslim states around it, one one Jewish state in the entire world, these are the main reasons i'm sceptical of Palestine, that and the way most people in Israel are treated well regardless of race. This isn't an issue of religion, i'm agnostic and don't dislike either, more culture.

Also why claim Jerusalem, the most sacred city to the Jewish/Christian race. I appreciate its worth in Islam, but to a much less extent

 

 

It annoys you? Why is that?

 

Wasn't Israel artificially created?

 

Are you suggesting the Palestinians should be marched off the land and into neighbouring countries?

 

How many states does Israel want? (I know there is only one. The Palestinians are asking for one of their own so they can run their own affairs..)

 

It's of no interest to Palestinians how people are treated in Israel and has no bearing on the need for a Palestinian state.

 

It isn't a religios issue I agree cause many Jews and other religions live in Palestine and many Muslims live AND VOTE in Israel.

 

Isn't it time to give Palestine a state with equal legality and parity in the eyes of the UN?

 

What's the holdup?

I'm against the frequent balkanization of the world, it can only lead in more problems, with so many national identities surely they're all gonna clash

 

No! I'm saying they should live in Israel and be happy, if the Palestinians came out and said "Okay, we're going to live in peace in Israel" i'm sure they'll be accepted with open arms. Similarly why can't they go to these countries like Syria that seem to care so much about them? Would these people be badly treated in Syria? Is there a national culture to preserve?

I doubt there's a need per se.

Oui, which shows what would happen if the Palestinians didn't get so chinny.

Yes and no, if they stopped asking for the world and were prepared to negotiate properly, sure, I mean it's not personally what i'd go for but anything to stop all this fighting.

 

I can see sadly you know nothing about the subject.

 

Thanks for the input anyway.

Which parts? The balkanization-agreed

The part about them living in Israel-possible, if not definite

The part about no Palestinian national culture-True, like what that area really needs is another Muslim state (albeit a democracy)

It's true they're asking a lot of negotiations.

[Dolly Potter MD 0]

Obama's advisors probably had to run that speech by A.I.P.A.C. (aka The Lobby) first, to seek their blessing/approval.

[Happy Face 29]

There were numerous reasons that Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer were accused in prominent venues of all sorts of crimes -- including anti-Semitism -- when they published The Israel Lobby, but the most common cause was the book's central theme: that there is a very powerful lobby in the U.S. which is principally devoted to Israel and causes U.S. political leaders to act to advance the interests of this foreign nation over their own. In The New York Times today, Tom Friedman -- long one of Israel's most stalwart American supporters -- wrote the following as the second paragraph of his column, warning that the U.S. was about to incur massive damage in order to block Palestinian statehood:

 

This has also left the U.S. government fed up with Israel's leadership but a hostage to its ineptitude, because the powerful pro-Israel lobby in an election season can force the administration to defend Israel at the U.N., even when it knows Israel is pursuing policies not in its own interest or America's.

 

Isn't that exactly Walt and Mearseimer's main theme, what caused them to be tarred and feathered with the most noxious accusations possible? Indeed it is; here's how the academic duo, in The Israel Lobby, described the crux of their argument as first set forth in an article on which the book was based:

 

After describing the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel, we argued that his support could not be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds Instead, it was due largely to the political power of the Israel lobby, a loose coalition of individuals and groups that seeks to influence American foreign policy in ways that will benefit Israel . . . We suggested that these policies were not in the U.S. national interest and were in fact harmful to Israel's long-term interests as well.

 

Is that not exactly the point which The New York Times' most "pro-Israel" columnist himself just voiced today? This thesis has long been self-evidently true. Indeed, many of the same Israel-loyal neoconservatives who accused Walt and Mearsheimer of promoting an anti-Semitic trope of "dual loyalty" -- by daring to suggest that some American Jews cast votes based on what's best for Israel rather than the U.S. -- themselves will explicitly urge American Jews to vote Republican instead of Democrat because of the former's supposedly greater support for Israel (you're allowed to argue that American Jews should make political choices based on Israel but you're not allowed to point out that some do so). Ed Koch just ran around the 9th Congressional District in New York successfully urging American Jews to vote for the GOP candidate based on exactly that appeal ("Koch, a Democrat, endorsed [the GOP candidate] in July as a way to 'send a message' to Obama on his policies toward Israel"). And in The Wall Street Journal this week, Rick Perry excoriated President Obama because of the small handful of instances where Obama deviated ever-so-slightly from the dictates and wishes of the Israeli government.

 

Walt and Mearshiemer merely voiced a truth which has long been known and obvious but was not allowed to be spoken. That's precisely why the demonization campaign against them was so vicious and concerted: those who voice prohibited truths are always more hated than those who spout obvious lies. That the foreign affairs columnist most admired in Washington circles just expressed the same point demonstrates that recognition of this previously prohibited fact has now become mainstream.

 

Unfortunately, though, it is still a fact. While there is little doubt that blocking Palestinian statehood will damage the U.S. in substantial ways, there is a reasonable debate to be had about whether Palestinian statehood is actually beneficial to the Palestinians. But American politicians won't be entertaining that debate as they exercise their veto because, as The Israel Lobby documented and Tom Friedman today put it, "the powerful pro-Israel lobby . . . can force the administration to defend Israel at the U.N., even when it knows Israel is pursuing policies not in its own interest or America's." Obama officials recognize how vital it is to improve how the U.S. is perceived in the Muslim world and go to great lengths to achieve that goal -- including, supposedly, just fighting a war in Libya in part to accomplish that -- yet (predictably egged on by Democratic Congressional leaders) are prepared/required to throw all of that away because of the imperative of honoring the Netanyahu government's obsession with denying Palestinian statehood.

 

 

UPDATE: China yesterday "warned of a spike in tensions in the Middle East if the United States vetoed the Palestinian bid for membership," pointing out: "If the US chooses to fly in the face of world opinion and block the Palestine UN bid next week, not only will Israel become more isolated but tensions in the region will be heightened even more." The New York Times this morning ponders what will happen when the veto "fuels deeper resentment of the United States." A normal, healthy government would be eager to avoid those harms, but as Tom Friedman says, American leaders are "hostage" to "the powerful pro-Israel lobby" and will thus subject the country to that damage in order not to incur its wrath.

 

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_gr...dman/index.html

[Park Life 71]

[Guest alex]

Is he of Polish descent?