Guest alex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Thing is, if we have cabaye and Tiote sitting deep, then whoever they pass the ball to needs to be quality. In order for it to work, we need 2 quality wingers who can link up with our striker or strikers on their own. Obertan has so far proven that hes not quite there yet, Marveax + Ben Arfa link up could work.. If only we had a regular poster on here who could posit a series of possible formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hmm snide snipe at me or a reference to someone else here? Im just sayin` Alex, we need better link-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted September 13, 2011 Author Share Posted September 13, 2011 I haven't been that impressed by any of our new signings so far - obertan, ba and cabaye all look like poorer players than barton, Carroll and Nolan - the players they have replaced. Still early days like so time for them all to improve, particularly cabaye. Obertan does look a bit of a headless chicken though for all his pace. Says it all that the player i was most excited to see warming up was shola's kid brother. He's even got his own song already too. Desperate times. If you think Nolan would have done better than Cabaye alongside Tiote tonight then you're an idiot. That was exactly the sort of game that would have passed Nolan by. Barton is a better footballer than Obertan, dont think that needs pointing out to anyone. Ba looked good when he came on, showed some nice touches. Wrong. Nolan looked good alongside tiote last year in a 442 precisely because he did what cabaye didn't do tonight - took up advanced positions. We were over run in centre mid tonight not just because we were outnumbered but also because we had two players sitting deep we were just in inviting pressure on to us. It didn't help that there was no support from the wingers and fuck all to aim at up front but the point stands - cabaye and Nolan Aden never going to work as a partnership in hat formation as long as they both play sitting in front of the back four. I'm not writing cabaye off, still early days and he will improve with better players around him, but we haven't seen him boss a game yet. I never once suggested that he didnt have good games alongside Tiote. Against that pace and playing against a 3 tonight, Nolan would have been shite. You remain an idiot for a. not getting that point and b. interpreting my post as 'Ba is better than Carroll'. you're wrong. nolan would have been better than cabaye was last night. at least he would understand the need to take up an advanced role. i'm not writing cabaye off btw. he might turn out to be a good player, but it seems obvious that he can't play in a 442 alongside a holding player like tiote as he wants to take take up those deep positions too. Cabaye and Tiote were up against 3 players as we tried (and failed) to play with some width. This has been explained to you a few times now but you dont seem to understand it. If Nolan was asked to do that role, his lack of pace and stamina would have exposed Tiote on his own time and again. I'm not interested in whether you're writing Cabaye off, am just struck by the shitness of your analysis. I'd like to add that we were overrun also cause we didn't have the type of striker who drops back ie like Ba might and Bafra will (if playing off a front man). Pardew looked extremely naive out there, he must have seen what we all saw regarding surrendering the middle of the park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21861 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 when you play a 4-4-2 with wingers, it's suicidal to play with both your central midfielders so deep. pretty basic analysis tbh. Again, it was me and Parky pointing this out to you last night, now you're playing it back to me as you're own. Mug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Hmm snide snipe at me or a reference to someone else here? Im just sayin` Alex, we need better link-up! No, I would snipe to your face, big man It was a reference to Deano. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4723 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 so far he is but hes capable of being more to me he looks like hes totally bereft of confidence, he'll run through empty space but when the time comes to beat a man or drive to the byline and cross he hesitates like hes thinking "I dont think I can do this bit" and by then the hole closes up and he passes it backwards or sideways he needs to be put up against raylor in training a bit to show him that he does have the ability to get past someone and get the ball in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 so far he is but hes capable of being more to me he looks like hes totally bereft of confidence, he'll run through empty space but when the time comes to beat a man or drive to the byline and cross he hesitates like hes thinking "I dont think I can do this bit" and by then the hole closes up and he passes it backwards or sideways he needs to be put up against raylor in training a bit to show him that he does have the ability to get past someone and get the ball in Noticed a few times now where he has the full-back isolated and you'd expect Obertan to show his pace and have a go at him but, like you say, he seems to be lacking in the confidence to do it and takes the easy option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 when you play a 4-4-2 with wingers, it's suicidal to play with both your central midfielders so deep. pretty basic analysis tbh. Again, it was me and Parky pointing this out to you last night, now you're playing it back to me as you're own. Mug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 so far he is but hes capable of being more to me he looks like hes totally bereft of confidence, he'll run through empty space but when the time comes to beat a man or drive to the byline and cross he hesitates like hes thinking "I dont think I can do this bit" and by then the hole closes up and he passes it backwards or sideways he needs to be put up against raylor in training a bit to show him that he does have the ability to get past someone and get the ball in Noticed a few times now where he has the full-back isolated and you'd expect Obertan to show his pace and have a go at him but, like you say, he seems to be lacking in the confidence to do it and takes the easy option. Yer.. I died a little inside every time that happened.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flair 0 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I thought Obertan was decent in the first half. He faded in the second half but I thought overall he had the best game from midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flair 0 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I thought Obertan was decent in the first half. He faded in the second half but I thought overall he had the best game from midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Just goes to show how low our expectations have become when we refer to Obertans first half as "good". I thought our entire team was abysmal yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21861 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) I haven't been that impressed by any of our new signings so far - obertan, ba and cabaye all look like poorer players than barton, Carroll and Nolan - the players they have replaced. Still early days like so time for them all to improve, particularly cabaye. Obertan does look a bit of a headless chicken though for all his pace. Says it all that the player i was most excited to see warming up was shola's kid brother. He's even got his own song already too. Desperate times. If you think Nolan would have done better than Cabaye alongside Tiote tonight then you're an idiot. That was exactly the sort of game that would have passed Nolan by. Barton is a better footballer than Obertan, dont think that needs pointing out to anyone. Ba looked good when he came on, showed some nice touches. Wrong. Nolan looked good alongside tiote last year in a 442 precisely because he did what cabaye didn't do tonight - took up advanced positions. We were over run in centre mid tonight not just because we were outnumbered but also because we had two players sitting deep we were just in inviting pressure on to us. It didn't help that there was no support from the wingers and fuck all to aim at up front but the point stands - cabaye and Nolan Aden never going to work as a partnership in hat formation as long as they both play sitting in front of the back four. I'm not writing cabaye off, still early days and he will improve with better players around him, but we haven't seen him boss a game yet. I never once suggested that he didnt have good games alongside Tiote. Against that pace and playing against a 3 tonight, Nolan would have been shite. You remain an idiot for a. not getting that point and b. interpreting my post as 'Ba is better than Carroll'. you're wrong. nolan would have been better than cabaye was last night. at least he would understand the need to take up an advanced role. i'm not writing cabaye off btw. he might turn out to be a good player, but it seems obvious that he can't play in a 442 alongside a holding player like tiote as he wants to take take up those deep positions too. Cabaye and Tiote were up against 3 players as we tried (and failed) to play with some width. This has been explained to you a few times now but you dont seem to understand it. If Nolan was asked to do that role, his lack of pace and stamina would have exposed Tiote on his own time and again. I'm not interested in whether you're writing Cabaye off, am just struck by the shitness of your analysis. you're wrong. i remember us playing the same formation last season with tiote and nolan in a central 2 together against midfield 3s and to my surprise it worked. the main reason being was tiote had the engine to mop up behind nolan and wasn't exposed by his pack of pace. nolan taking up advanced positions and supporting the front men in turn on took midfielders with him, making tiote's job easier and giving us a link tot he front two. cabaye made the fact we were outnumbered in midfield even more of a problem by playing so deep that their midfielders had the freedom of loftus road to operate. when you play a 4-4-2 with wingers, it's suicidal to play with both your central midfielders so deep. pretty basic analysis tbh. Which game are you referring to? Nolan and Tiote played in a central 2 against a pacey 3 man midfield last season and bossed it? Talking through your arse, you didnt even account for their 3 in midfield last night until it was repeatedly pointed out to you. i can't remember every formation we came up against in every game last season but you hardly have to given most teams in the premier league play with three central midfielders these days and other than at the start (when nolan played as a support striker) we played the majority of last season with two strikers and nolan and tiote in the middle of a 4-4-2. i was sceptical - i didn't think it would work as nolan's legs looked like they were going. but tbf to nolan it did work, mainly because he understood how to operate alongside tiote. something cabaye hasn't so far. i can't remember you pointing anything out to me tbh, other than replying my point about cabaye, ba and obertan doing a poorer job than the players they replaced. Edited September 13, 2011 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Obertan is in the category of 'Players who make me want to order another pint at ten to three and see how I feel after that'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Obertan is in the category of 'Players who make me want to order another pint at ten to three and see how I feel after that'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 from my completely irrational point of view, he looks a bit shit.. hopefully he will be better, but im not crossing any pubic hairs betting on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Obertan is in the category of 'Players who make me want to order another pint at ten to three and see how I feel after that'. If we had Messi and Ronaldo I still think I'd feel like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 haven't really got a lot of time, but... Obertan looked decent enough without being great, on the few occasions we saw him at ManU, thats all, not getting a game in front of Giggs, Nani and Ronaldo is hardly a disgrace, maybe worth a gamble and this was said in a post, started by Stevie, I think. Cabaye hasn't done anything to get excited about tbh. So far, I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he is going to be anything more than just someone with a box-to-box engine. We will see. Demba Ba looks like Shola with different coloured boots. So much for a "good transfer window" again, where "a good centre forward would have made it good business" and all others such bullshit, to be honest. Our transfer activity so far in January and in the summer has been disastrous overall. I only saw the 2nd half of the game on TV last night, but once again, SammyObi makes me think he is worth watching, I started a thread on this a few weeks ago. Most of our team now, are adequate premiership players at best, some of them are not even that. This is what we have now at the club, and this is how things are going to be. Last season is possibly the highest we will ever finish while Mike Ashley owns this football club, I've said this many times. I stick by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Loved his Maria Von Trap in the box when he was through on goal. He had gained an ounce of space and time then he just started spinning around like the fucking Tazmanian Devil. I couldn't understand what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 haven't really got a lot of time, but... Obertan looked decent enough without being great, on the few occasions we saw him at ManU, thats all, not getting a game in front of Giggs, Nani and Ronaldo is hardly a disgrace, maybe worth a gamble and this was said in a post, started by Stevie, I think. Cabaye hasn't done anything to get excited about tbh. So far, I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he is going to be anything more than just someone with a box-to-box engine. We will see. Demba Ba looks like Shola with different coloured boots. So much for a "good transfer window" again, where "a good centre forward would have made it good business" and all others such bullshit, to be honest. Our transfer activity so far in January and in the summer has been disastrous overall. I only saw the 2nd half of the game on TV last night, but once again, SammyObi makes me think he is worth watching, I started a thread on this a few weeks ago. Most of our team now, are adequate premiership players at best, some of them are not even that. This is what we have now at the club, and this is how things are going to be. Last season is possibly the highest we will ever finish while Mike Ashley owns this football club, I've said this many times. I stick by it. Fantastic post and I agree with most if not all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 haven't really got a lot of time, but... Obertan looked decent enough without being great, on the few occasions we saw him at ManU, thats all, not getting a game in front of Giggs, Nani and Ronaldo is hardly a disgrace, maybe worth a gamble and this was said in a post, started by Stevie, I think. Cabaye hasn't done anything to get excited about tbh. So far, I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he is going to be anything more than just someone with a box-to-box engine. We will see. Demba Ba looks like Shola with different coloured boots. So much for a "good transfer window" again, where "a good centre forward would have made it good business" and all others such bullshit, to be honest. Our transfer activity so far in January and in the summer has been disastrous overall. I only saw the 2nd half of the game on TV last night, but once again, SammyObi makes me think he is worth watching, I started a thread on this a few weeks ago. Most of our team now, are adequate premiership players at best, some of them are not even that. This is what we have now at the club, and this is how things are going to be. Last season is possibly the highest we will ever finish while Mike Ashley owns this football club, I've said this many times. I stick by it. Couldn't agree more with most of that. The only thing is I think Caybaye looks like a canny footballer even if there has been times when he's seemed to be overan in games so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 (edited) We were promised carpet fotball but what I see is a fragmented team of individuals who didnt quite make it at their old club for some reason, simply because we are not willing to pay the going rate for decent players. So we end up with injury-ridden "talents" that have a medical record of an Iraqi veteran or just flat out misfits like Obertan. I think our only chance of doing well this season is dependant on Ben arfa hitting the ground running. otherwise we are proper fucked. Edited September 13, 2011 by Saltwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 We were promised carpet fotball We were? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I think our only chance of doing well this season is dependant on Ben arfa hitting the ground running. otherwise we are proper fucked. Can't see why people think Barfa will make the difference. He can't pick up the ball from defense and be effective at unlocking doors on the edge of the opposition box. Cabaye suffered as Barfa will last night. Simpson. Taylor and Taylor will continue to whack it right over his head....and by extension Coloccini who doesn't have a fellow defender that's comfortable playing on the floor with him. Our best hope is Santos. Like Enrique, he and Coloccini will have to work up a partnership that allows us to play it out of defence rather than relying on the long ball that invites more pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 We were promised carpet fotball We were? werent we? I seem to recall Pardew promising us a more " free-flowing" pas-and-move team? Part of the reason why we got rid of Nolan etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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