The Rooney Rule

[Andrew 4872]

not that I havent enjoyed the daft bitching

 

Football clubs could be forced to interview at least one black candidate when they are looking for a new manager.

 

The Professional Footballer's Association are looking at bringing in the new rule because only two out of 92 bosses are black.

 

However, experts have warned that positive discrimination could be illegal - and people could not be interviewed solely because of their ethnicity.

Leading the way: Birmingham manager Chris Hughton

 

Time for positive discrimination? Chris Hughton, left, the Birmingham City manager and Charlton's Chris Powell are the only two black managers at England's 92 league clubs

 

A similar rule has existed in the U.S. since 2003 to ensure that NFL clubs always interview someone from a minority background when recruiting a head coach.

 

Currently Chris Hughton at Birmingham City and Chris Powell at Charlton Athletic are the only black managers.

 

Former England international Paul Ince was in charge of Notts County until earlier this year.

 

The positive discrimination policy has been dubbed the 'Rooney Rule' in the U.S. after Dan Rooney, owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers who have a long history of recruiting coaches from ethnic minority backgrounds.

 

Former West Bromwich Albion player Brendan Batson, 58, said a rule change was needed because black managers were not getting a chance.

 

‘It’s quite clear we’re not getting the best talent available and we have to look at this concept.

 

‘It’s about trying to get the best candidate for the job. If you are not casting that net far enough to scoop up the best talent, then are you really giving your club the best chance possible?

Plea: Former West Brom defender Brendon Batson backs the introduction of the 'Rooney rule'

 

Plea: Former West Brom defender Brendon Batson backs the introduction of the 'Rooney rule'

 

‘The NFL franchise owners all saw it as an opportunity to improve not only the image of the game but their own results as well.

 

‘This is about making sure the person who fits the position the best gets an interview. It’s still up to the people interviewing to make their choice.’

 

Senior figures from within the game met U.S. civil rights lawyer Cyrus Mehri to discuss bringing in a 'positive discrimination' rule.

 

He said: 'We are not saying clubs have to hire minority candidates. We are just saying, “Give them a chance, maybe you don’t know what you’re missing”.'

 

In the U.S. the Detroit Lions were fined $200,000 for failing to interview a African-American for their vacant head coach's job in 2003. After that all teams fell into line.

 

PFA chief executive Gordon Taylor said they needed to do more to recruit black managers.

 

'In football terms, we are the most cosmopolitan country in the world,'

he said.

 

'There is no distinction between colour, creed, nationality or background.

 

'However, the PFA spends a lot of money training players for the future and understandably, one of the most obvious areas of interest is coaching and management.

 

'For some reason the number of black people who actually get a chance in this area is very small.'

 

A spokesman for the Equality and Human Rights Commission said that positive discrimination could be illegal.

 

'You couldn't only shortlist people because they are black. You should only be employing the best person for the job.'

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-20...l#ixzz1XTQxSD7N

 

Article grabbed just to explain what it is to those of you who didn't know.

 

I really really hope this doesn't pass the quote from that article

 

‘This is about making sure the person who fits the position the best gets an interview.’

 

that to me is totally illogical, its actually the opposite of the point of the rule surely since its forcing clubs to have to possibly forsake a candidate with a real chance of getting a job by replacing them with a "making up the numbers" minority candidate, Im genuinely stunned that this has as much support as it seems to.

 

paul ince constantly blames his failing on the fact that people dont like him cause he is black, its been trotted out by him as the reason for being sacked or dropped or not getting a job for years and it holds no water. he was sacked for winning 3 in 17 matches.

 

discuss. or go back to the old board debate

Edited September 9, 2011 by Semimental

[Happy Face 29]

Shepherd hired a black boss.

 

[Andrew 4872]

so did ashley, think we can call them even on this one

[TicTacWoe 0]

Ridiculous idea. Imagine being the black guy in the interview for the Chelsea job or whatever, knowing you're there just to make up the numbers, that's more racist and downright humiliating than the existing situation.

 

As for whether there is discrimination regarding managerial jobs in football I think it has far more to do with preconceived notions of what is a supposedly good manager. It's the same reason why English coaches regardless of skin colour rarely if ever get big jobs anymore. When people think what is a successful manager they either think stylish foreign guy or gruff old Scottish guy.

 

So when a black manager such as Paul Ince fails as he did at Blackburn it just reaffirms that preconception further. It's a very difficult situation but once there is a really successful black British manager things will start to change but it will be very slow.

 

It's such a shame for Hughton that he was at this bonkers club. If he hadn't been sacked I could have imagined he would go on to get Redknapps job after he fucks off to the England job.

Edited September 9, 2011 by TicTacWoe

[Andrew 4872]

Ridiculous idea. Imagine being the black guy in the interview for the Chelsea job or whatever, knowing you're there just to make up the numbers, that's more racist and downright humiliating than the existing situation.

 

As for whether there is discrimination regarding managerial jobs in football I think it has far more to do with preconceived notions of what is a supposedly good manager. It's the same reason why English coaches regardless of skin colour rarely if ever get big jobs anymore. When people think what is a successful manager they either think stylsih whispy haired foreign guy or gruff old Scottish guy.

 

So when a black manager such as Paul Ince fails as he did at Blackburn it just reaffirms that preconception further. It's a very difficult situation but once there is a really successful black British manager things will start to change but it will be very slow.

 

It's such a shame for Hughton that he was at this bonkers club. If he hadn't been sacked I could have imagined he would go on to get Redknapps job after he fucks off to the England job.

 

if he has a good season with birmingham then he still might, they loved him at spurs didnt they? hes working in really tough conditions again at birmingham.

[StevenL 0]

They've got an extra vertebrate in their spine. Makes them shit at managing.

[Brock Manson 0]

It's nothing but positive discrimination; a well dodgy rule. It's patronising and segragates black people further. I highly doubt there are a string of black managers being turned down for jobs in football on racial grounds.

 

Shit managers like Leroy Rosenior and Paul Ince complain that black managers aren't getting a chance. Not necessarily the case tbh. If you're not up to a job, you shouldn't automatically be given the chance for it.

 

Chris Powell is doing a good job at Charlton and Hughton did an excellent job for us, so I don't think we really need a Rooney rule. Let's not forget that Hope Powell is also England manager in ladies' football too.

[manc-mag 1]

An 'interview'? Does the concept even apply to football manager recruitment in the true sense? The proposed 'solution' to this looks about as daft as the perceived problem is.

[Meenzer 15740]

While we're on the subject, I was just thinking the other night, are we the only English club to have had two black managers?

[Meenzer 15740]

Let's not forget that Hope Powell is also England manager in ladies' football too.

She should be Capello's successor.

[Monkeys Fist 43115]

While we're on the subject, I was just thinking the other night, are we the only English club to have had two black managers?

Think we might be.

Can't think of any others so far.

[PaddockLad 17698]

Two from 92 is a disgrace iyam. I know Blackburn Billy has a strong dislike for Oliver Holt because of this issue and Holt was wrong about Paul Ince, his record was awful at Blackburn and a white manager wouldve been pumped too .Ince had only managed a professional football team about 70 times (which may have had more to do with his problems) when given the Blackburn job, but that is 70 more than Brian Robson when he got the Boro job. Holt does make a good basic point about this issue though:

 

It’s a scandal we only have two black managers in 2012

 

by Oliver Holt, Daily Mirror 7/09/2011

 

PAUL DAVIS always gets a reaction­ when he tells black players they should study for their coaching badges and try to become football managers.

 

“The guys laugh in my face,” he says. “It’s not because they’re rich, lazy, complacent or ­arrogant – it’s because they think it’s futile.

 

“It’s a waste of their time and a threat to their dignity. It’s because their path is blocked.”

 

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Sometimes, they mention what happened to Davis himself. How he spent five years coaching Arsenal’s­ Under-13s and U15s before he quit in 2003.

 

Do you remember what Davis was like as an Arsenal player? Cultured, elegant, a clever passer of the ball. A thinking man’s player.

 

He won the title twice under George Graham in 1989 and 1991. He’s a bright bloke, too. Personable, articulate – and smart. He could show players his medals, as well.

 

Let’s be honest, if Davis was white, then one of our League clubs would have snapped him up as soon as his playing career had finished.

 

It never happened. And after he quit as a youth coach, he hasn’t even bothered to put himself forward for management jobs. His confidence is shot.

 

“I don’t want to put myself in a situation where people are ­embarrassing me,” he adds. “I am not confident about the hiring processes.

 

“Now, I see the same kind of fear in the eyes of more players who are coming through and want to be managers.”

 

Davis, 49, works for the Professional Footballers’ Association now, desperately­ trying to improve the chances of players from ethnic minorities finding a manager’s job.

 

Because, let’s face it, the situation at the moment is just embarrassing­.

 

We have some room to boast about the progress we have made in tackling racism in football in this country.

 

But there are 92 managers of Premier League and Football League clubs and only two of them – Chris Powell at Charlton and Chris Hughton at Birmingham City – are black.

 

That means 25 per cent of our 4,500 professional players are from ethnic minorities – but this group only makes up two per cent of our managers.

 

Davis wants to do something about it. So does the man who was sitting next to him at a hotel in London’s Kensington yesterday morning.

 

Cyrus Mehri, an eminent lawyer who is one of the architects of the Rooney Rule in American Football’s NFL, addressed representatives­ of the FA, the Premier League, the PFA and the League Managers’ Association yesterday.

 

Many are now pressing for our clubs to be forced to adopt an English equivalent­ of the Rooney Rule.

 

Named after Dan Rooney, the owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the rule, which was introduced in 2003, obliged NFL teams to interview­ at least one black candidate­ when a head coaching position became vacant.

 

The Rooney Rule transformed the league. There are four times more black head coaches now than there were in 2003.

 

And guess what? Many of them have been outstandingly successful. In fact, in 2007, both the teams that reached the Super Bowl, the Indianapolis Colts and the Chicago Bears, were run by black coaches.

 

“There were some problems at first,” Mehri admitted.

 

“The Dallas Cowboys’ owner Jerry Jones thought it was OK to interview the black candidate over the phone and all the white candidates­ to their faces.

 

“If there is passive racism present somewhere, we have found it erodes during the interview­ process.

 

“Sometimes, people are surprised with the calibre of a man when they meet him to his face. But what kind of message is English football sending with someone like Paul Davis? If he was white, he would be fast-tracked. If he is black, he will be marginalised.

 

“We’re not saying clubs must hire minority candidates. We’re saying: ‘Give them a chance, maybe you don’t know what you’re missing’.”

 

This appears to be a bit of a campaign from the Mirror...cant find todays feature on Andy Cole but he was bombed out at Hudderrsfield before he could even discuss a contract.....could be nothing in it, but as I say 2 from 92 suggests discrimination. Wrong and also illegal in this country. As is disregarding half the population (hello ladies) Hope Powell wouldve been a better appointment than Joe Kinner

[AgentAxeman 189]

Holt? Isnt he the daft cunt thats been defending Gary Cook all week on Twatter?

 

Edit: and discrimination, whether percieved positive or negative is a fuckin disgrace. You shouldnt get an interview just cos yer black. What about chinese, or indian, or kuala lumpan? They're all CRIMINALLY underrepresented in the league as well.

 

 

ffs!

[Lazarus 0]

i doubt this rule will come into force and it sounds like there are problems getting black players into management never mind getting them jobs.

 

also, will the fa interview a black manager when fabio buggers off (regardless of this rule), i very much doubt it.

[PaddockLad 17698]

Holt? Isnt he the daft cunt thats been defending Gary Cook all week on Twatter?

 

Edit: and discrimination, whether percieved positive or negative is a fuckin disgrace. You shouldnt get an interview just cos yer black. What about chinese, or indian, or kuala lumpan? They're all CRIMINALLY underrepresented in the league as well.

 

 

ffs!

 

Thats the point though.....look how many home grown black players there are. Not so many from your list. Its almost impossible to prove, but the figures suggest that prejudice exists.And the anecdotal stories such as Paul Davies above.

[PaddockLad 17698]

i doubt this rule will come into force and it sounds like there are problems getting black players into management never mind getting them jobs.

 

also, will the fa interview a black manager when fabio buggers off (regardless of this rule), i very much doubt it.

 

And your evidence for that?...

 

Are you suggesting that black ex players dont want to be managers?..

 

Andy Cole might not have his heart in it as hes unlikely to need to do a days graft in his life again.

 

2 from 92 suggests theres something going on iyam. Read what Paul Davis says in the article....

[trophyshy 7084]

Black African and Black Afro-Caribbean make up 1.8% of UK demographic.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of..._United_Kingdom

 

2/92 is 2.2%

 

What's the problem?

[Lazarus 0]

i doubt this rule will come into force and it sounds like there are problems getting black players into management never mind getting them jobs.

 

also, will the fa interview a black manager when fabio buggers off (regardless of this rule), i very much doubt it.

 

And your evidence for that?...

 

Are you suggesting that black ex players dont want to be managers?..

 

Andy Cole might not have his heart in it as hes unlikely to need to do a days graft in his life again.

 

2 from 92 suggests theres something going on iyam. Read what Paul Davis says in the article....

dont have any evidence mate - its just how it sounded to me. im probably wrong

[Toonpack 9988]

Black African and Black Afro-Caribbean make up 1.8% of UK demographic.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of..._United_Kingdom

 

2/92 is 2.2%

 

What's the problem?

 

There's a higher proportion than there should be, in relation to the demographic, in prison ???

[trophyshy 7084]

Black African and Black Afro-Caribbean make up 1.8% of UK demographic.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of..._United_Kingdom

 

2/92 is 2.2%

 

What's the problem?

 

There's a higher proportion than there should be, in relation to the demographic, in prison ???

 

Unrelated. Start a new thread if you want to discuss that.

[Billy Castell 0]

I say fuck off to this idea. It's probably backed by some cuntish joke of a journalist called Oliver Holt, who declared Blackburn Rovers Football club and all the fans were racist for sacking Paul Ince after 6 months. Forgetting the fact we were the first club in the Premier League to hire a British black manager, and ignoring the fact that Hughes led the team to 8th position, and when Ince took over he alienated the best goalie in the league, took training methods back 30 years and led the same squad to 19th or 20th place when he was sacked.

 

This is tokenism of the worst kind. I don't know why few black people go into coaching and management, but I just can't see top players like Ferdinand, Ashley Cole or Walcott being interested.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I say fuck off to this idea. It's probably backed by some cuntish joke of a journalist called Oliver Holt, who declared Blackburn Rovers Football club and all the fans were racist for sacking Paul Ince after 6 months. Forgetting the fact we were the first club in the Premier League to hire a British black manager, and ignoring the fact that Hughes led the team to 8th position, and when Ince took over he alienated the best goalie in the league, took training methods back 30 years and led the same squad to 19th or 20th place when he was sacked.

 

This is tokenism of the worst kind. I don't know why few black people go into coaching and management, but I just can't see top players like Ferdinand, Ashley Cole or Walcott being interested.

 

Aye, you've picked three absolute pricks though. You could list top black players who would make (at first glance) good candidates, like Seedorf, Viera and I could see Essien making a manager some day.

 

Seeing as Deano as gone we need someone to make shit lists, here's my list of black managerial candidates:

 

Sylvian Wiltord, Boa Morte, Thuram, Gallas, Huddlestone, Lescott, Yaya Toure, De Jong, Marcos Assunsacoa, Roberto Carlos, Etoo, Keita, Kanoute, Marcos Senna, Andrade, Maicon, Socrates, Dida, there are many others. There are no excuses that these people are not managers.

[PaddockLad 17698]

Black African and Black Afro-Caribbean make up 1.8% of UK demographic.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of..._United_Kingdom

 

2/92 is 2.2%

 

What's the problem?

The problem is around 1 in 7 English players are black. Even allowing for foreign managers,the Glasgow gang,multi millionaire players and Fergie seemingly going on till hes 108, there should still be more than 2 black managers from 92 clubs. The Rooney rule changed a similar situation in the NFL. Dont know how it would get on here, but the 2007 superbowl was contested by 2 teams lead by black head coaches. Teams aren't forced to appoint a black guy, just interview them. But that would indicate some sort of process, not just phoning big Sams agent and offering him the job like that....

[toonotl 3116]

I find these sort of plans ridiculous. This is racism. It doesn't matter if the intended outcome is positive. It is plainly racist. Its akin to saying, 'now little boy we know you can't do it on your own so here's a little helping hand for you, poor sootie'.

 

How about working on changing the social and cultural situation (not a job for football administrators by the way) that may lead to the sort of discrimination that sees ethnic minorities put in this situation in the first place?

 

I find racism disgusting, like any other sensible person. I don't find these sort of plans helpful. They are inflammatory, they encourage racist behaviour, and reinforce racist notions. Dumb.

Edited September 9, 2011 by toonotl

[ewerk 31228]

How many black English pundits are on TV?

 

How many foreigners are managing English clubs outside of the PL?

 

Load of wank.