NUFC Debt

[Toonpack 9987]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

[Toonpack 9987]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

 

I don't believe I make excuses for him, I just don't assign everything he does with the mark of Satan. He can (as I've said with monotonous regularity) be villified for many things, but if he's getting ripped for something I don't think is right, I'll say so. All just my opinion of course.

[ChezGiven 0]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

I'm still going to refuse to join any political camps as i just dont see the point as massive failure now doesnt preclude him doing something right in the future. For me its a question of the negatives outweighing the positives and am sure everyone agrees with that. The problem with politicising it means everything gets looked at through a certain light, is spun to meet the overall narrative and then despair sets in. For my own sake, i prefer to keep things compartmentalised into whats good and whats not good. I'm pissed off at the missed opportunity especially as i see weakness in Everton, Spurs, Villa, Sunderland etc. I still think we can enjoy some football this season and that we can improve on 46 points. Its not about scoring 56 goals or 41 at home in a season, we could score 11 less goals at home and still have a far superior record, as 7 teams above us did last year.

 

Ashley's a cunt but i cant change that nor can i influence the situation, the trick is to work out how to continue enjoying your football whilst accepting that you can do little to change things. I'm also still not sure if failure this time is down to incompetence, bad luck or deliberate. Its hard to tell so its hard to know how to feel about it.

[Guest alex]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

Fair enough. 'Excuses' was just a figure of speech btw.

[Guest alex]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

I'm still going to refuse to join any political camps as i just dont see the point as massive failure now doesnt preclude him doing something right in the future. For me its a question of the negatives outweighing the positives and am sure everyone agrees with that. The problem with politicising it means everything gets looked at through a certain light, is spun to meet the overall narrative and then despair sets in. For my own sake, i prefer to keep things compartmentalised into whats good and whats not good. I'm pissed off at the missed opportunity especially as i see weakness in Everton, Spurs, Villa, Sunderland etc. I still think we can enjoy some football this season and that we can improve on 46 points. Its not about scoring 56 goals or 41 at home in a season, we could score 11 less goals at home and still have a far superior record, as 7 teams above us did last year.

 

Ashley's a cunt but i cant change that nor can i influence the situation, the trick is to work out how to continue enjoying your football whilst accepting that you can do little to change things. I'm also still not sure if failure this time is down to incompetence, bad luck or deliberate. Its hard to tell so its hard to know how to feel about it.

To be honest, while I think I try to objective, I'm not going to pretend he hasn't sucked a lot of my enjoyment out of watching the club, because he has. That's the saddest thing for me.

Btw, don't fucking bother trying to paraphrase that to fit your agenda (not you Chez, you know who you are).

[Christmas Tree 4851]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

I'm still going to refuse to join any political camps as i just dont see the point as massive failure now doesnt preclude him doing something right in the future. For me its a question of the negatives outweighing the positives and am sure everyone agrees with that. The problem with politicising it means everything gets looked at through a certain light, is spun to meet the overall narrative and then despair sets in. For my own sake, i prefer to keep things compartmentalised into whats good and whats not good. I'm pissed off at the missed opportunity especially as i see weakness in Everton, Spurs, Villa, Sunderland etc. I still think we can enjoy some football this season and that we can improve on 46 points. Its not about scoring 56 goals or 41 at home in a season, we could score 11 less goals at home and still have a far superior record, as 7 teams above us did last year.

 

Ashley's a cunt but i cant change that nor can i influence the situation, the trick is to work out how to continue enjoying your football whilst accepting that you can do little to change things. I'm also still not sure if failure this time is down to incompetence, bad luck or deliberate. Its hard to tell so its hard to know how to feel about it.

 

Post of the year that Chez.

 

Can you be my post moderator please.

[Craig 6700]

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

That's the crux of it to me. The difference between it being successful and dreadful was an extremely thin line.

 

It's pretty obvious to me that they couldn't find a decent striker willing to accept the relatively punative wages they were offering so instead of stretching to get what was needed they simply didn't buy at all.

[LeazesMag 0]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

 

he will, eventually. Not that it matters.........I've said before, and I'll say it again. Put this club into the Champions League, keep our best players, attempt to capitalise on the fanbase, compete with the other clubs at the level NUFC ought to compete at, and I don't give a monkeys how much money he makes, if he does this, he's entitled to it as payoff for giving supporters what they pay for. Just like anybody else has done, or could do.

 

It is and has been obvious for some time too, that he is "recouping his losses". Keegan told us this ages ago, for starters, that he would sell players then sell the club.

 

I really don't get the spite aimed at the old owners, when they did what they did and gave us a good football team and gave the ownership their best shot for those years. The grass is always greener, is the phrase to apply, a lot of people have found out that it most certainly is not always greener, and they have found out the hard way.

 

If Mike Ashley finally woke up and changed direction, I would be obviously very happy and concede that this had happened, but as things stand, it isn't going to happen and I'm now in the same frame of mind that I was during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc - I'm supporting the club and going to games but I'm waiting for the day someone else takes control and only pray that it is someone who will realise where the club ought to be and attempts to do it.

 

While very unhappy with the state of the club, at least more people are now seeing it as it is, not that it will help, but its better than banging your head against a brick wall [no insult intended] and at least they can hopefully concede the point that the club is indeed going in the wrong direction, under-selling itself and needs directors who understand the size of the club again

Edited September 2, 2011 by LeazesMag

[LeazesMag 0]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

I'm still going to refuse to join any political camps as i just dont see the point as massive failure now doesnt preclude him doing something right in the future. For me its a question of the negatives outweighing the positives and am sure everyone agrees with that. The problem with politicising it means everything gets looked at through a certain light, is spun to meet the overall narrative and then despair sets in. For my own sake, i prefer to keep things compartmentalised into whats good and whats not good. I'm pissed off at the missed opportunity especially as i see weakness in Everton, Spurs, Villa, Sunderland etc. I still think we can enjoy some football this season and that we can improve on 46 points. Its not about scoring 56 goals or 41 at home in a season, we could score 11 less goals at home and still have a far superior record, as 7 teams above us did last year.

 

Ashley's a cunt but i cant change that nor can i influence the situation, the trick is to work out how to continue enjoying your football whilst accepting that you can do little to change things. I'm also still not sure if failure this time is down to incompetence, bad luck or deliberate. Its hard to tell so its hard to know how to feel about it.

To be honest, while I think I try to objective, I'm not going to pretend he hasn't sucked a lot of my enjoyment out of watching the club, because he has. That's the saddest thing for me.

Btw, don't fucking bother trying to paraphrase that to fit your agenda (not you Chez, you know who you are).

 

who ?

[Guest alex]

Not you It was just a stroppy way of saying don't bother asking "So you didn't enjoy the victory against Sunderland because of Ashley?" or some similar moronic query.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

 

he will, eventually. Not that it matters.........I've said before, and I'll say it again. Put this club into the Champions League, keep our best players, attempt to capitalise on the fanbase, compete with the other clubs at the level NUFC ought to compete at, and I don't give a monkeys how much money he makes, if he does this, he's entitled to it as payoff for giving supporters what they pay for. Just like anybody else has done, or could do.

 

It is and has been obvious for some time too, that he is "recouping his losses". Keegan told us this ages ago, for starters, that he would sell players then sell the club.

 

I really don't get the spite aimed at the old owners, when they did what they did and gave us a good football team and gave the ownership their best shot for those years. The grass is always greener, is the phrase to apply, a lot of people have found out that it most certainly is not always greener, and they have found out the hard way.

 

If Mike Ashley finally woke up and changed direction, I would be obviously very happy and concede that this had happened, but as things stand, it isn't going to happen and I'm now in the same frame of mind that I was during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc - I'm supporting the club and going to games but I'm waiting for the day someone else takes control and only pray that it is someone who will realise where the club ought to be and attempts to do it.

 

While very unhappy with the state of the club, at least more people are now seeing it as it is, not that it will help, but its better than banging your head against a brick wall [no insult intended] and at least they can hopefully concede the point that the club is indeed going in the wrong direction, under-selling itself and needs directors who understand the size of the club again

 

You almost always sound very plausible but you never address the real issues for me.

 

You huff and puff about the champions league, yet you said this.....

 

I don't expect Ashley to throw loads of money at the club. I expect that is why a lot of people wanted him, but this isnt' fair. Its a bonus if he does that.

 

How do we get to from where we are now, to breaking the champions league without either him deciding to throw a couple of hundered million at it or someone else.

 

Do you believe its possible to get there some other way?

 

When you said that, how were you thinking he would achieve it at the time without throwing loads of money at it.

 

Btw I appreciate those peoples points who argue he bought it for fun so yes he should spend big, I just always get lost how you think it can be changed without massive investment.

[LeazesMag 0]

Not you It was just a stroppy way of saying don't bother asking "So you didn't enjoy the victory against Sunderland because of Ashley?" or some similar moronic query.

 

[LeazesMag 0]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

 

he will, eventually. Not that it matters.........I've said before, and I'll say it again. Put this club into the Champions League, keep our best players, attempt to capitalise on the fanbase, compete with the other clubs at the level NUFC ought to compete at, and I don't give a monkeys how much money he makes, if he does this, he's entitled to it as payoff for giving supporters what they pay for. Just like anybody else has done, or could do.

 

It is and has been obvious for some time too, that he is "recouping his losses". Keegan told us this ages ago, for starters, that he would sell players then sell the club.

 

I really don't get the spite aimed at the old owners, when they did what they did and gave us a good football team and gave the ownership their best shot for those years. The grass is always greener, is the phrase to apply, a lot of people have found out that it most certainly is not always greener, and they have found out the hard way.

 

If Mike Ashley finally woke up and changed direction, I would be obviously very happy and concede that this had happened, but as things stand, it isn't going to happen and I'm now in the same frame of mind that I was during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc - I'm supporting the club and going to games but I'm waiting for the day someone else takes control and only pray that it is someone who will realise where the club ought to be and attempts to do it.

 

While very unhappy with the state of the club, at least more people are now seeing it as it is, not that it will help, but its better than banging your head against a brick wall [no insult intended] and at least they can hopefully concede the point that the club is indeed going in the wrong direction, under-selling itself and needs directors who understand the size of the club again

 

You almost always sound very plausible but you never address the real issues for me.

 

You huff and puff about the champions league, yet you said this.....

 

I don't expect Ashley to throw loads of money at the club. I expect that is why a lot of people wanted him, but this isnt' fair. Its a bonus if he does that.

 

How do we get to from where we are now, to breaking the champions league without either him deciding to throw a couple of hundered million at it or someone else.

 

Do you believe its possible to get there some other way?

 

When you said that, how were you thinking he would achieve it at the time without throwing loads of money at it.

 

Btw I appreciate those peoples points who argue he bought it for fun so yes he should spend big, I just always get lost how you think it can be changed without massive investment.

 

All he had to do was keep our best players, and outperform clubs such as Fulham, Stoke etc in the transfer market. I can understand the sale of Carroll for that whopping fee, if it had been completely handed to the manager, the whole entire fee, on top of a budget in keeping with what he ought to have anyway at a club like this and allowed to look at the market and build his own team with it, no questions asked.

 

 

When Mike Ashley bought this club, we were an established club expected to qualify for europe. Supporters were disgruntled when we didn't, like the last season but the year prior to that we finished 7th. Look back at the players who were playing for the club at that time, and look back at the players who played for the team when Keegan came back ? IMO we needed perhaps 2 good players, and we would have been top 6 again, instead that team has been systematically dismantled, under the guise of "cutting costs".

 

 

How do you think we can compete with the top teams when we adopt a selling club policy, like the small clubs do ? This is what we do now. It is clear as daylight to everybody . Isn't it ?

Edited September 2, 2011 by LeazesMag

[JawD 99]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

indeed he did, on many occasions, and it was also quoted on many occasions too [by me] that it was also Mike Ashleys NINTH transfer window, not the 1st or 2nd, but the NINTH

 

Posters on other sites are now blaming the ex owners for selling the club to Mike Ashley. You really couldn't make it up.

I don't always agree with TP but I think he makes his case well and so on. I think that you could conceivably make excuses for Ashley (at times I hasten to stress) before this window. I'm not defending his myriad errors but I can see why he might do x,y and z in order to make up for them. There's no excuse now though imo. A few will continue to make excuses but they're so stupid as to barely consider. In a perverse way I'm almost pleased now that virtually all and sundry can see him for what he is.

I'm still going to refuse to join any political camps as i just dont see the point as massive failure now doesnt preclude him doing something right in the future. For me its a question of the negatives outweighing the positives and am sure everyone agrees with that. The problem with politicising it means everything gets looked at through a certain light, is spun to meet the overall narrative and then despair sets in. For my own sake, i prefer to keep things compartmentalised into whats good and whats not good. I'm pissed off at the missed opportunity especially as i see weakness in Everton, Spurs, Villa, Sunderland etc. I still think we can enjoy some football this season and that we can improve on 46 points. Its not about scoring 56 goals or 41 at home in a season, we could score 11 less goals at home and still have a far superior record, as 7 teams above us did last year.

 

Ashley's a cunt but i cant change that nor can i influence the situation, the trick is to work out how to continue enjoying your football whilst accepting that you can do little to change things. I'm also still not sure if failure this time is down to incompetence, bad luck or deliberate. Its hard to tell so its hard to know how to feel about it.

 

Id settle with that pov. Im neither one nor the other but agree MA is a cunt. End of. Like Alex says he is trying his damnedest (MA, not Alex) to destroy my love for the team and game. I often feel like Im clinging on to it in defiance of him. No matter what he does I'm resolute (despite giving up my seat this year). The bloke hasnt a clue about running a club imo but can run a business (on the cheap). I think my single biggest issue is their utter disregard of the fans (their customers) and how they just steamroll ahead without a thought or letting us know what is going on.

 

Its like the sign at the club, why not just say "we are doing this...." on their website? Rather than say nowt? Or the last day of the transfer window. Iam 100% convinced that they had no intention of signing anyone and they just let slip some details to journo's to make it look like they were trying. A total smoke screen imo but they didnt have the bollocks to come out an say so.

 

Also saying they have a warchest for Jan puts them in exactly the same situation as now. Fucking fools.

 

Truth is though, I think we still have a half decent side and can still finish mid table. It's just woefully thin and we're fucked in a few injuries. I think a FWD and a CH on loan would have made the outlook so much more positive.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

 

he will, eventually. Not that it matters.........I've said before, and I'll say it again. Put this club into the Champions League, keep our best players, attempt to capitalise on the fanbase, compete with the other clubs at the level NUFC ought to compete at, and I don't give a monkeys how much money he makes, if he does this, he's entitled to it as payoff for giving supporters what they pay for. Just like anybody else has done, or could do.

 

It is and has been obvious for some time too, that he is "recouping his losses". Keegan told us this ages ago, for starters, that he would sell players then sell the club.

 

I really don't get the spite aimed at the old owners, when they did what they did and gave us a good football team and gave the ownership their best shot for those years. The grass is always greener, is the phrase to apply, a lot of people have found out that it most certainly is not always greener, and they have found out the hard way.

 

If Mike Ashley finally woke up and changed direction, I would be obviously very happy and concede that this had happened, but as things stand, it isn't going to happen and I'm now in the same frame of mind that I was during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc - I'm supporting the club and going to games but I'm waiting for the day someone else takes control and only pray that it is someone who will realise where the club ought to be and attempts to do it.

 

While very unhappy with the state of the club, at least more people are now seeing it as it is, not that it will help, but its better than banging your head against a brick wall [no insult intended] and at least they can hopefully concede the point that the club is indeed going in the wrong direction, under-selling itself and needs directors who understand the size of the club again

 

You almost always sound very plausible but you never address the real issues for me.

 

You huff and puff about the champions league, yet you said this.....

 

I don't expect Ashley to throw loads of money at the club. I expect that is why a lot of people wanted him, but this isnt' fair. Its a bonus if he does that.

 

How do we get to from where we are now, to breaking the champions league without either him deciding to throw a couple of hundered million at it or someone else.

 

Do you believe its possible to get there some other way?

 

When you said that, how were you thinking he would achieve it at the time without throwing loads of money at it.

 

Btw I appreciate those peoples points who argue he bought it for fun so yes he should spend big, I just always get lost how you think it can be changed without massive investment.

 

All he had to do was keep our best players, and outperform clubs such as Fulham, Stoke etc in the transfer market. I can understand the sale of Carroll for that whopping fee, if it had been completely handed to the manager, the whole entire fee, on top of a budget in keeping with what he ought to have anyway at a club like this and allowed to look at the market and build his own team with it, no questions asked.

 

 

When Mike Ashley bought this club, we were an established club expected to qualify for europe. Supporters were disgruntled when we didn't, like the last season but the year prior to that we finished 7th. Look back at the players who were playing for the club at that time, and look back at the players who played for the team when Keegan came back ? IMO we needed perhaps 2 good players, and we would have been top 6 again, instead that team has been systematically dismantled, under the guise of "cutting costs".

 

 

How do you think we can compete with the top teams when we adopt a selling club policy, like the small clubs do ? This is what we do now. It is clear as daylight to everybody . Isn't it ?

 

When he bought the club the recent 7th finish was a blip and the overall patter was low to middle and I think most though we were on the slide, rather than as you say "expected to qualify for Europe".

 

You still havent answered how back then or now tbf we could break the top four without a couple of hundred mill to throw at it.

 

Even for a possy like me (who wishes Carrol and Nolan and Barton and Enrique and the new signings were all still here), I still dont think that team would be anywhere near good enough to break the top four.

 

I dont think its negative to admit that currently, the top four is beyond reach of any team that doesnt have hundreds of millions to spend on fees and the 100 grand plus wages that would go with them.

[LeazesMag 0]

IIRC Toonpack you did say this was the transfer window in which Ashley should be judged (or words to that effect). Not playing the 'he said, she said' game as such but I wonder what your assessment of the window is.

 

 

Yes I did, it appears patently obvious now that he is recouping his losses.

 

On the window, we did what appears to be some excellent work and if we'd bought a striker, it would have been very good window IMO, we didn't so it was very disappointing.

 

There were two ways it could go (which I believe is what I said) he'd be shown to be continuing to prop it up, thus we'd spend, or he's not prepared to do that which meant we wouldn't. We didn't spend so the answer appears clear.

 

On the bright side, if he is reducing his exposure (the clubs debt to him) it makes it all the more saleable which has to be good.

 

Pitty he's not more philanthropic, but at least he had the cash to keep us afloat.

 

And just out of spite, for LM, he still hasn't taken a penny out, let alone £52 Million.

 

he will, eventually. Not that it matters.........I've said before, and I'll say it again. Put this club into the Champions League, keep our best players, attempt to capitalise on the fanbase, compete with the other clubs at the level NUFC ought to compete at, and I don't give a monkeys how much money he makes, if he does this, he's entitled to it as payoff for giving supporters what they pay for. Just like anybody else has done, or could do.

 

It is and has been obvious for some time too, that he is "recouping his losses". Keegan told us this ages ago, for starters, that he would sell players then sell the club.

 

I really don't get the spite aimed at the old owners, when they did what they did and gave us a good football team and gave the ownership their best shot for those years. The grass is always greener, is the phrase to apply, a lot of people have found out that it most certainly is not always greener, and they have found out the hard way.

 

If Mike Ashley finally woke up and changed direction, I would be obviously very happy and concede that this had happened, but as things stand, it isn't going to happen and I'm now in the same frame of mind that I was during the days of McKeag, Seymour etc - I'm supporting the club and going to games but I'm waiting for the day someone else takes control and only pray that it is someone who will realise where the club ought to be and attempts to do it.

 

While very unhappy with the state of the club, at least more people are now seeing it as it is, not that it will help, but its better than banging your head against a brick wall [no insult intended] and at least they can hopefully concede the point that the club is indeed going in the wrong direction, under-selling itself and needs directors who understand the size of the club again

 

You almost always sound very plausible but you never address the real issues for me.

 

You huff and puff about the champions league, yet you said this.....

 

I don't expect Ashley to throw loads of money at the club. I expect that is why a lot of people wanted him, but this isnt' fair. Its a bonus if he does that.

 

How do we get to from where we are now, to breaking the champions league without either him deciding to throw a couple of hundered million at it or someone else.

 

Do you believe its possible to get there some other way?

 

When you said that, how were you thinking he would achieve it at the time without throwing loads of money at it.

 

Btw I appreciate those peoples points who argue he bought it for fun so yes he should spend big, I just always get lost how you think it can be changed without massive investment.

 

All he had to do was keep our best players, and outperform clubs such as Fulham, Stoke etc in the transfer market. I can understand the sale of Carroll for that whopping fee, if it had been completely handed to the manager, the whole entire fee, on top of a budget in keeping with what he ought to have anyway at a club like this and allowed to look at the market and build his own team with it, no questions asked.

 

 

When Mike Ashley bought this club, we were an established club expected to qualify for europe. Supporters were disgruntled when we didn't, like the last season but the year prior to that we finished 7th. Look back at the players who were playing for the club at that time, and look back at the players who played for the team when Keegan came back ? IMO we needed perhaps 2 good players, and we would have been top 6 again, instead that team has been systematically dismantled, under the guise of "cutting costs".

 

 

How do you think we can compete with the top teams when we adopt a selling club policy, like the small clubs do ? This is what we do now. It is clear as daylight to everybody . Isn't it ?

 

When he bought the club the recent 7th finish was a blip and the overall patter was low to middle and I think most though we were on the slide, rather than as you say "expected to qualify for Europe".

 

You still havent answered how back then or now tbf we could break the top four without a couple of hundred mill to throw at it.

 

Even for a possy like me (who wishes Carrol and Nolan and Barton and Enrique and the new signings were all still here), I still dont think that team would be anywhere near good enough to break the top four.

 

I dont think its negative to admit that currently, the top four is beyond reach of any team that doesnt have hundreds of millions to spend on fees and the 100 grand plus wages that would go with them.

 

When Mike Ashley bought the club, the only bankrolled club - at the time - was Chelsea. ManU because of their global appeal are also an exception [but not impossible, it will be interesting to see how they get on when the greatest manager of the past generation calls it a day].

 

7th was certainly not a blip, not when the club appeared in europe more over a 15 year period than all other clubs bar 4 during that period [sorry, but its relevant to your question], and supporters expected to qualify for europe. This suggests not qualifying for europe, and demanding change, was in fact the blip.

 

Qualifying for europe NOW would be a blip though. Such as how things have changed, because the club quite simply does not have the profile, desire wage structure or mentality in place to aim for it or make it a viable possibility anymore.

 

My point all along has never been that Man City have joined this group of clubs, making 3 clubs who are ahead of the rest, but that we are not even attempting to compete with the likes of Liverpool or Spurs, rather than selling our best players like the small clubs do. We are competing at the levels of Blackburn, Bolton, and are even losing transfer targets and our best players to clubs like Wigan, Villa, Fulham. THIS is the problem, which YOU continue to totally ignore.

 

Edit.

 

I can understand how things change and move on in football, of course they do, so I can and could accept the sales of Nolan and Carroll under the circumstance as I've stated in my previous post, it would have easily been possible for the club to justify those sales and look like they were a progressive club, but I didn't expect it and it hasn't happened.

 

However, there is no excuse whatsoever, none, for the sales of Enrique and Nolan. The heart has been ripped out of this club now. Our 2 leaders, and main dressing room "captains", have left. This will become obvious as the season goes on.

Edited September 2, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Christmas Tree 4851]

Not ignoring it Leazes and wish we were doing it with either Ashley or anyone. I just cant see how it can be done without throwing a couple of hundred mill at it. (which would still be a gamble given who is already up there).

 

I think football in general is less enjoyable because the top four is so out of reach (not just us of course), but I think you always come across as making it sound as though bish bash bosh, we could be there so easily and without jeopardising the future existence of the club.

 

I still hope an arab etc comes in some day.

[Guest Your Name Here]

All supporters want is to see the club try and compete. They don’t expect mega signings, but they do expect a concerted effort to move forward by building on what we already have. Selling your best players, pocketing the cash and bringing in cheap replacements (or none at all) isn’t prudence, it’s ignorance.

[LeazesMag 0]

Not ignoring it Leazes and wish we were doing it with either Ashley or anyone. I just cant see how it can be done without throwing a couple of hundred mill at it. (which would still be a gamble given who is already up there).

 

I think football in general is less enjoyable because the top four is so out of reach (not just us of course), but I think you always come across as making it sound as though bish bash bosh, we could be there so easily and without jeopardising the future existence of the club.

 

I still hope an arab etc comes in some day.

 

everybody wants that man. But we don't need it to act bigger than competing with the relegation candidates in the premiership.

[Guest alex]

All supporters want is to see the club try and compete. They don’t expect mega signings, but they do expect a concerted effort to move forward by building on what we already have. Selling your best players, pocketing the cash and bringing in cheap replacements (or none at all) isn’t prudence, it’s ignorance.

Exactly.

[Lazarus 0]

However, there is no excuse whatsoever, none, for the sales of Enrique and Nolan. The heart has been ripped out of this club now. Our 2 leaders, and main dressing room "captains", have left. This will become obvious as the season goes on.

surely with enrique it was sell him when we did or lose him for nowt due to his contract??

 

as for nolan - ive argued in another thread he was pretty much sold for footballing reasons ie cabaye brought in with ben arfa to play the withdrawn striker role. as there was effectively no place in the starting 11 for him he was sold.

[Christmas Tree 4851]

Not ignoring it Leazes and wish we were doing it with either Ashley or anyone. I just cant see how it can be done without throwing a couple of hundred mill at it. (which would still be a gamble given who is already up there).

 

I think football in general is less enjoyable because the top four is so out of reach (not just us of course), but I think you always come across as making it sound as though bish bash bosh, we could be there so easily and without jeopardising the future existence of the club.

 

I still hope an arab etc comes in some day.

 

everybody wants that man. But we don't need it to act bigger than competing with the relegation candidates in the premiership.

 

I agree with that bit Leazes, but there's the ocean and the big blue sea between " competing with relegation candidates" and breaking the top four.

 

Bit more realism in your posts (kettle pot btw) would lead to less arguments, particularly given you were once an Ashley Fan.

[peasepud 59]

Not ignoring it Leazes and wish we were doing it with either Ashley or anyone. I just cant see how it can be done without throwing a couple of hundred mill at it. (which would still be a gamble given who is already up there).

 

I think football in general is less enjoyable because the top four is so out of reach (not just us of course), but I think you always come across as making it sound as though bish bash bosh, we could be there so easily and without jeopardising the future existence of the club.

 

I still hope an arab etc comes in some day.

 

Mr Your Name answered your post perfectly tbh just a shame he hadnt quoted you.

 

Hes spot on though, most of us (Leazes clearly included) dont expect to sign £20m strikers or overhaul the playing staff each season by clearing out and bringing in all the latest and greatest players from round the world

What we do expect is sensible use of the resources available and honest answers from the club. Selling our best striker and leaving us short in January was mental to say the least but to then ignore the fact in August and still carry on is just disgraceful.

 

We have clearly set our stall out now that no player can be purchased unless funded by the sale of an existing one, where does that put us next January then?

 

Theres a whole thread to be had on this which should be seperate and its something Ive talked about for a while now but this clear out of high earners isnt a short term measure, its the whole future plan of the club and one that if followed will see us cease to exist as a Premiership club within 2 seasons and possibly be a lot worse.

[Kitman 2207]

I see no difference in Ashley lending the money or a bank lending the money other than it being interest free. At the end of the day the clubs still owes money be it to Ashley or the bank.

 

Presumably with Ashley's debt the club has a bit less control over when it gets paid off. For instance if there was 35 mill lying around in a bank account, Ashley could demand the cash rather than it being used say to buy a new striker. Assuming his debt was repayable on demand of course.

 

Nope, a bank could take all of the money at any time it liked (as Barclays all but did once in the late 80's) if Ashley increases the debt in the club to pay himself back all he would be doing is creating losses which he himself would be liable for or at least have to cover. Your statement forgets that Ashley as the single owner with no shareholders, to all intents and purposes, is the club.

 

If he's recovering money, it would be by reducing the debt the club owes to him from the operating subsidies he's put in, which based upon the lack of spend this window, may be exactly what he's doing.

 

Recovery of the £130-odd Million would come when and if the club is sold again.

 

I'm sorry I don't understand this. If you have a loan agreement with a bank, and are honouring the terms of it, why can the bank take all of the money any time they like? And why would they want to?

 

In addition, I never said anything about increasing debt to pay himself back. Your last point is exactly what I was saying - if the club is cash positive, and does not require subsidising anymore, then he can use surplus cash to repay all his debts. Which a bank couldn't demand if the terms of the bank loan are being honoured.

 

Maybe I've got this wrong. Happy to be corrected, try not to be a patronising twat in the process, eh?

[Kitman 2207]

I see no difference in Ashley lending the money or a bank lending the money other than it being interest free. At the end of the day the clubs still owes money be it to Ashley or the bank.

 

Presumably with Ashley's debt the club has a bit less control over when it gets paid off. For instance if there was 35 mill lying around in a bank account, Ashley could demand the cash rather than it being used say to buy a new striker. Assuming his debt was repayable on demand of course.

 

Nope, a bank could take all of the money at any time it liked (as Barclays all but did once in the late 80's) if Ashley increases the debt in the club to pay himself back all he would be doing is creating losses which he himself would be liable for or at least have to cover. Your statement forgets that Ashley as the single owner with no shareholders, to all intents and purposes, is the club.

 

If he's recovering money, it would be by reducing the debt the club owes to him from the operating subsidies he's put in, which based upon the lack of spend this window, may be exactly what he's doing.

 

Recovery of the £130-odd Million would come when and if the club is sold again.

 

I'm sorry I don't understand this. If you have a loan agreement with a bank, and are honouring the terms of it, why can the bank take all of the money any time they like? And why would they want to?

 

In addition, I never said anything about increasing debt to pay himself back. Your last point is exactly what I was saying - if the club is cash positive, and does not require subsidising anymore, then he can use surplus cash to repay all his debts. Which a bank couldn't demand if the terms of the bank loan are being honoured.

 

Maybe I've got this wrong. Happy to be corrected, try not to be a patronising twat in the process, eh?