ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Well after a bitterly disappointing end to the transfer window, my mind has turned to the financial state of the club. Many apologies for being a boring bastard but for me if any sense is to be made of what is going on then some answers must come from the finances. I have said a few times on here that the Carroll money must be being used to cover the losses of the previous 2 seasons. Thats not offered in any capacity other than an explanation for why he wont spend. What troubles me more is that if the Carroll money has been used to cover these cash losses, then in effect these losses never occurred, its as though (financially) we stayed in the premiership, we just lost a player. However, given the increasing TV revenue and the massive reduction in wages then surely this last season should have seen a surplus and surely this surplus is what should have been invested. What possible reason is there for not having extra funds available? The only reason i can think of is the total debt of the club. Any surplus made is being funnelled to pay off debts, this has happened at low levels over the last few seasons. So i went back to the debt data and one thing struck me that i admit has always been in the back of my mind but never had the time to delve into (I did make some comments to the swiss rambler on this over the summer but he never got back to me). There has been a few discussions on here on this so maybe this has already been resolved and i missed it but i wanted to work out why we have £240m worth of debt? In the chart below you will see that the debt grew from £55 to £77m from 2005 to 2007. Our debt position was clearly getting worse but it then jumps by £138m in 2007, showing up in 2008. Now, unless i'm mistaken regarding the liability of the club for debt held by SJH Ltd, it seems to me that Mike Ashley lent SJH Ltd £138m in 2007, which is the exact price Ashley paid for the club. Although not the exact definition of a leveraged buy-out, where a bank lends money secured against the asset, the principle is the same if the money earned from the business is then used to pay back this debt as per Man Utd. What causes me concern is the figure in the chart for 2009 which shows that the specific £138m debt to Ashley is reduced to £132m. Forgive me for not being a proper financial expert but in what way is this different from the Glazers using Man U funds to pay back the debts they used to buy the club? Surrely if the Carroll money covered the losses of the last 2 seasons and Ashley bought the club outright then the debt position should be slowly reducing itself from £77m as per 2007 accounts (which included stadium expansion). If i havent got this completely wrong (i dont really understand the financial relationship between the holding company and us and why the SJH Ltd debt is showing in our accounts), then was NUFC subject to a covert leveraged buy-out? Does this explain why we are so stifled financially? Was it a leveraged buy-out or similar in principle? Maybe this post is a waste of time but i dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRToonFanStill 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IRToonFanStill 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I like how the players run really fast for my team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 43115 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 I got most of that ( I think), but for the non-accountant types i.e. Me, does this mean in essence he got us for nowt? If it was covert, is that legal? Also, if true, does this mean we can look forward to many more transfer windows like the last until his pockets are replenished? And how many cunt points should I add to his tally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 I got most of that ( I think), but for the non-accountant types i.e. Me, does this mean in essence he got us for nowt? If it was covert, is that legal? Also, if true, does this mean we can look forward to many more transfer windows like the last until his pockets are replenished? And how many cunt points should I add to his tally? For the first question, thats what i'm trying to work out. Secondly, it was legal but it was sold to the public very differently as an outright purchase (how can he pay himself back the purchase price??). Third question, i dont know. Fourth question, if true you can multiply the current cunt points by the tally the Man U fans have for the Glazers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themags 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 So basically he's got the club for nothing? On top of this hasnt it come to light that NUFC paid for the Sports Direct advertising on the gallowgate. Some maybe one day we'll be saved when this bent fucker goes to court Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 So basically he inherits the debt & gets the asset for free, using the assets income as repayments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 43115 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Cheers Chez. Points added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 If this is true then what I want to know is where was Parky's conspiracy theory. Surely couldn't have happened on his watch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Makes sense, unfortunately. Hope his helicopter crashes. No need for a safety wink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 PS if you're right then Parky may have to resign from the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. North East correspondents of nationals would be a decent starting point. I used to know Simon Bird as it happens [/namedrop] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themags 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 people on the forum are struggling to fully understand Chezs first post, so i doubt the local press could at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. North East correspondents of nationals would be a decent starting point. I used to know Simon Bird as it happens [/namedrop] Yeah sorry, better suggestion. I'd just meant the ones that aren't on the payroll at SJP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. I'd like to hear an experts view on the question. There may be an explanation but when i asked Swiss Rambler he said 'You're right that the value of the loan in St James Holdings Ltd is the same as the price paid for the club, but this in itself does not tell us how the loan was funded.' and then didnt answer my follow up questions. Happy for the post to be linked to any journos people know well enough to get them to look at it. Even if its just to rule out the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. North East correspondents of nationals would be a decent starting point. I used to know Simon Bird as it happens [/namedrop] Yeah sorry, better suggestion. I'd just meant the ones that aren't on the payroll at SJP. Aye, I assumed that was what you meant, i.e. not Thompson House. I wouldn't bother sending it to Lee Ryder either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Nice one Craig re twitter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. North East correspondents of nationals would be a decent starting point. I used to know Simon Bird as it happens [/namedrop] Yeah sorry, better suggestion. I'd just meant the ones that aren't on the payroll at SJP. Aye, I assumed that was what you meant, i.e. not Thompson House. I wouldn't bother sending it to Lee Ryder either way. We should definitely send him the post KSA made about him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Interesting stuff this Chez. Get it posted on Newcastle-Online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. I'd like to hear an experts view on the question. There may be an explanation but when i asked Swiss Rambler he said 'You're right that the value of the loan in St James Holdings Ltd is the same as the price paid for the club, but this in itself does not tell us how the loan was funded.' and then didnt answer my follow up questions. Happy for the post to be linked to any journos people know well enough to get them to look at it. Even if its just to rule out the idea. Have stuck it the way of Brian McNally & Simon Bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Bottom line of the graph: Total Mike Ashley loan = £238m. £138m to purchase the club and £100m to recapitalise the business. Its a leveraged buy-out? On a serious note, reckon it's worth ventilating in front of any (non-North East) journalists? Just by way of an open question via email.. sure they'd have forensic financial types they could run it by just to see if they think it smells off. I'd like to hear an experts view on the question. There may be an explanation but when i asked Swiss Rambler he said 'You're right that the value of the loan in St James Holdings Ltd is the same as the price paid for the club, but this in itself does not tell us how the loan was funded.' and then didnt answer my follow up questions. Happy for the post to be linked to any journos people know well enough to get them to look at it. Even if its just to rule out the idea. Have stuck it the way of Brian McNally & Simon Bird. Attach a photo of KSA's doctored Ben Arfa pic so they've got a picture of the whistleblower to publish when this shit goes national. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 1, 2011 Author Share Posted September 1, 2011 Interesting stuff this Chez. Get it posted on Newcastle-Online. There are few proper experts on there, quayside etc, will do it later when i get the chance but feel free to copy it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Chez - I've posted that up on Newcastle-Online. I hope you don't mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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