Renton 20958 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Of course the N subs in the S Atlantic didn't carry Trident or even any A bombs........... We could have fired them from the N Atlantic but I'm pretty sure the Yanks have to agree (real cynics believe they have an electronic override on the missiles which are all supplied from the States anyway) Also the PM doesn't actually have total authority to launch - it has to go via the chain of command and I'm pretty sure she would have been in a straight jacket pretty quickly......... 69846[/snapback] The only subs we know that were in S.Atlantic at the time were 'hunter-killer's' which don't carry ICBM's. We will never find out where the Polaris subs (we didn't have Tridents) were at the time (unless an 'insider' tells us!) but they did indeed carry ICBM's. There is no way on earth that we would have nuked Argentina, whether we had the subs there to do it or not. As you say, Maggie would have been in a straight jacket in no time. 70209[/snapback] I hope you aren't implying Rob was talking shite 70212[/snapback] he's agreeing with me FFS - I'm not sure if we'd replaced Polaris with Trident at that time 70271[/snapback] Corrected you re Trident/Polaris tbh 70279[/snapback] I can feel another bitchfest coming on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43854 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Of course the N subs in the S Atlantic didn't carry Trident or even any A bombs........... We could have fired them from the N Atlantic but I'm pretty sure the Yanks have to agree (real cynics believe they have an electronic override on the missiles which are all supplied from the States anyway) Also the PM doesn't actually have total authority to launch - it has to go via the chain of command and I'm pretty sure she would have been in a straight jacket pretty quickly......... 69846[/snapback] The only subs we know that were in S.Atlantic at the time were 'hunter-killer's' which don't carry ICBM's. We will never find out where the Polaris subs (we didn't have Tridents) were at the time (unless an 'insider' tells us!) but they did indeed carry ICBM's. There is no way on earth that we would have nuked Argentina, whether we had the subs there to do it or not. As you say, Maggie would have been in a straight jacket in no time. 70209[/snapback] I hope you aren't implying Rob was talking shite 70212[/snapback] he's agreeing with me FFS - I'm not sure if we'd replaced Polaris with Trident at that time 70271[/snapback] Corrected you re Trident/Polaris tbh 70279[/snapback] I can feel another bitchfest coming on. 70285[/snapback] At least this time it's about something a bit more manly than literature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 2 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: the Belgrano, I believe the headline on The S*n the following day was 'Gotcha!' ffs. 70223[/snapback] It was torpedoed with Noel Edmonds. Sadly he survived. 70227[/snapback] That man has a lot of blood on his hands tbh. 70235[/snapback] Nearly did John Peel in apparently. That game show he does is part of his probation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 At least this time it's about something a bit more manly than literature. 70339[/snapback] You should read some Hemingway, you big hom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 "Corrected you re Trident/Polaris tbh " agreed - but i know the difference - which I doubt you do (TBH) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 "Corrected you re Trident/Polaris tbh " agreed - but i know the difference - which I doubt you do (TBH) 70410[/snapback] Correct, although I wasn't expressing an opinion which I couldn't back up, unlike your comparison of 'The Great Gatsby' and the novels of Dickens. TBH Unless you want to put the record straight here gramps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 You and Manc Mag - Literary Criticism of the Age................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 You and Manc Mag - Literary Criticism of the Age................. 70464[/snapback] You can attempt to take the piss all you like. Doesn't alter the fact you were unable to back up your argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted December 21, 2005 Share Posted December 21, 2005 Re: the Belgrano, I believe the headline on The S*n the following day was 'Gotcha!' ffs. 70223[/snapback] Wasn't it followed by 'STICK IT UP YOUR JUNTA' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game 70582[/snapback] I don't think anybody thought it was a game at any stage really, apart from the cernts at The S*n perhaps. As an aside, I read somewhere that we may well have lost the Falklands War had all the Argentinian bombs that landed on British ships actually exploded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20958 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game 70582[/snapback] I don't think anybody thought it was a game at any stage really, apart from the cernts at The S*n perhaps. As an aside, I read somewhere that we may well have lost the Falklands War had all the Argentinian bombs that landed on British ships actually exploded. 70586[/snapback] First I've heard of that. We would have struggled without American intelligence though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game 70582[/snapback] I don't think anybody thought it was a game at any stage really, apart from the cernts at The S*n perhaps. As an aside, I read somewhere that we may well have lost the Falklands War had all the Argentinian bombs that landed on British ships actually exploded. 70586[/snapback] First I've heard of that. We would have struggled without American intelligence though. 70598[/snapback] There were several Argie bombs that didn't exploded I believe. The Falklands also showed that the British 'mini' aircraft carriers weren't very effective in war either - I think they only carried about 3 Harriers and a helicopter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game 70582[/snapback] I don't think anybody thought it was a game at any stage really, apart from the cernts at The S*n perhaps. As an aside, I read somewhere that we may well have lost the Falklands War had all the Argentinian bombs that landed on British ships actually exploded. 70586[/snapback] That's true - they had fused their bombs to be released at something like 200ft altitude - which was what the Yanks do and what the Argies practised at - in action they were well under 200 ft so the damn things didn't fuse - a lot of British ships were hit by unexploded bombs the Navy were DESPERATE that the meeja wouldn't mention this and to be fair they kept their mouths shut until the war was over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Normally both are quoted as the High Point of British Journalism.............. Unfortunately the "Gotcha" headline was immediately followed byu the loss of the "Sheffield" (built at Swan's in Wallsend) and people realised it wasn't a game 70582[/snapback] I don't think anybody thought it was a game at any stage really, apart from the cernts at The S*n perhaps. As an aside, I read somewhere that we may well have lost the Falklands War had all the Argentinian bombs that landed on British ships actually exploded. 70586[/snapback] That's true - they had fused their bombs to be released at something like 200ft altitude - which was what the Yanks do and what the Argies practised at - in action they were well under 200 ft so the damn things didn't fuse - a lot of British ships were hit by unexploded bombs the Navy were DESPERATE that the meeja wouldn't mention this and to be fair they kept their mouths shut until the war was over 70655[/snapback] Cheers Rob, I knew you'd know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 "There were several Argie bombs that didn't exploded I believe. The Falklands also showed that the British 'mini' aircraft carriers weren't very effective in war either - I think they only carried about 3 Harriers and a helicopter." Wrong there Alex (but right above) Without the Carriers the Brits would have had NO air support and the operation would never have been launched. the Carriers carried around 8 Sea harriers (mainly air defence); 5-6 Harriers (ground attack) and a herd of helicopters http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/air-war.htm " During the eight week conflict 28 Sea Harriers flew 1,435 operational sorties shooting down 20 enemy aircraft plus three probables, while 14 Harriers flew a total of 126 sorties" After the Falklands War Spain, Thailand, Italy, Russia and India adopted the mini-carrier concept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 "We would have struggled without American intelligence though." It was useful initially on force strengths & argie tactics but since it wasn't real time we could never figure out when they were coming The Chileans certainly helped aas did the French who (eventually) handed over details of the exact EXOCETS and Etendard radars the Argies had A real problem was (to quote a British Admiral) " we should have rembered that a country who produce brillaint racing drivers and footballers would also produce some very brave and skilled pilots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I stand corrected. 70671[/snapback] Somethings I know DO about.............. I actually went round the Sheffield afer she was launched - my Dad worked on her at Swan's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I stand corrected. 70671[/snapback] Somethings I know DO about.............. I actually went round the Sheffield afer she was launched - my Dad worked on her at Swan's 70678[/snapback] At least I admit it when I'm wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I still reckon Sheffield was deliberately sunk in the Atlantic to minimise the effect on the UK population, which would have been extremely despondent had they seen more pics of the hulk should she have returned home. I knew a few lads in the Falklands war and even knew one (not well, though) who was killed on Ardent. The Royal Navy got a bloody nose during that conflict. They didn't expect half the problems they encountered, though the lessons learned were immense for modern warfare. Lessons needlessly learned. Yet again, more lives lost for oil/minerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43854 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 I stand corrected. 70671[/snapback] Somethings I know DO about.............. I actually went round the Sheffield afer she was launched - my Dad worked on her at Swan's 70678[/snapback] Unlike basic word ordering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Christmas has started early for us Dyslexics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Christmas has started early for us Dyslexics 70703[/snapback] LDS makes one dyslexic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W 0 Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 (edited) I still reckon Sheffield was deliberately sunk in the Atlantic to minimise the effect on the UK population, which would have been extremely despondent had they seen more pics of the hulk should she have returned home. I knew a few lads in the Falklands war and even knew one (not well, though) who was killed on Ardent. The Royal Navy got a bloody nose during that conflict. They didn't expect half the problems they encountered, though the lessons learned were immense for modern warfare. Lessons needlessly learned. Yet again, more lives lost for oil/minerals. 70695[/snapback] there wasn't much point in trying to save her and then drag her all the way back to the UK You're right about the problems - the Navy seemed to have forgotten every lesson they learn't during WW2 - lack of close in gun support, lack of airborne warning radar etc etc I guess they 'd spent their time practising for N War and fighting the Russains around Iceland The war was really fought because the Tories would have been out if we hadn't tried to take the islands back - there wasn't (and still isn't) and oil, gas or minerals there - mind you there are a number of companies on AIM (Rockhopper, Falklands Oil & Gas, Falklands Minerals) that would like to convince you otherwise - I'd steer clear personally Edited December 22, 2005 by Rob W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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