The Great British riots

[ewerk 31237]

In 1974 the top-rate of income tax increased to its highest rate since the war, 83%. This combined with a 15% surcharge on 'un-earned' income could add to a 98% marginal rate of personal income tax. In 1974, as many as 750,000 people were liable to pay the top-rate of income tax. Margaret Thatcher, who favoured indirect taxation, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60%. The top rate of income tax was cut to 40% in the 1988 budget.

 

The basic rate was cut from 33% to 30%. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets - to 29% in the 1986 budget, 27% in 1987 and to 25% in 1988.

 

Someone in this thread said the rioters were greedy and selfish. Those sort of tax gifts to the wealthy seem selfish to me. Ensuring the wealthy keep what they have and the poor get none.

 

Gifts?

[Kitman 2207]

Unfortunately the wealthy are well advised and mobile. You can put taxes up all you like, it doesn't mean the rich will pay more in practice.

[wykikitoon 20903]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Shouldnt they be "organising" for next year and planning? Thats what they do in their holidays right?

[Christmas Tree 4858]

Problem with CT's theory is that the government has cut public sector jobs and the private sector taking up the slack, the increase in exports by UK companies and so on that was predicted by the government hasn't materialised and shows no sign of doing so at present.

 

There will always be an excuse Alex, no matter what the economy is like or which government is in power. With regard to imigrants, how many times have we heard the line that they do the work the english wont. The english wont because they can get by on benefits.

 

Available work and excellent benefits are the reason imigrants come here. Less benefits for the people already here and making the avaialable work the option will reduce claimants and imigrants, both which will benefit an already overcowded island particularly with a bleak economic outlook for decades to come.

 

That "nice" TORY, whose name escapes me, that has been looking at the benefit system for years and is trying to change it is spot on.

 

(not a racial point btw).

I'm not sure what you think I'm making an excuse for. I was pointing out that a economic climate with less jobs around means that more unemployed is inevitable. Ignoring party politics it's not really the time to decrease the amount of people on benefits, in fact it's absolutely inevitable that the amount of people on them will increase. To get back to party politics the government's policies clearly aren't working in the way they are because the economy hasn't responded to their policies in the way they said it would. Hate to say I told you so...

 

I was basically saying that there will also be an excuse not to get going with necessary reforms, particularly benefits. It should have been addressed by Labour in 97 when the world went through a boom period but better late than never.

 

And we will always need a main benefit safety net but its way past a safety net.

 

Re the economy, I think its fairly evident the world is pretty fucked and there will be no quick fixes. I cant really see it getting any better in my lifetime. I think there is a massive worldwide correction going on and things will never return to the way they were unless something unknown at present comes along.

 

It will be difficult for those who have lived through prosperous times, but as always in life, future generations will just adjust to that enviroment.

 

I compare it to NUFC under SJH. The likes of me and you know we will probably never have it that good again and it will always taint our enjoyment of NUFC to some degree. Kids who are just getting into football now dont have that baggage.

 

I also believe borrowing more money to try and prop up the "good times" in the hope they will come back is not the answer. It wasnt for Fred and it isnt for Dave.

[Christmas Tree 4858]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

[Happy Face 29]

In 1974 the top-rate of income tax increased to its highest rate since the war, 83%. This combined with a 15% surcharge on 'un-earned' income could add to a 98% marginal rate of personal income tax. In 1974, as many as 750,000 people were liable to pay the top-rate of income tax. Margaret Thatcher, who favoured indirect taxation, reduced personal income tax rates during the 1980s. In the first budget after her election victory in 1979, the top rate was reduced from 83% to 60%. The top rate of income tax was cut to 40% in the 1988 budget.

 

The basic rate was cut from 33% to 30%. The basic rate was also cut for three successive budgets - to 29% in the 1986 budget, 27% in 1987 and to 25% in 1988.

 

Someone in this thread said the rioters were greedy and selfish. Those sort of tax gifts to the wealthy seem selfish to me. Ensuring the wealthy keep what they have and the poor get none.

 

Gifts?

 

Is it not a gift to half someone's income tax rate over 10 years?

[ewerk 31237]

When coming from a ridiculously high position, no it isn't.

[McFaul 35]

There are various possible reasons, it's not just because they're black, people are not born cunts regardless what your skin colour is.

 

But you think it's in their culture? Ingrained in their families and societies?

It's one point of view.

 

Is it your point of view?

 

I think it's certainly part of the problem. Though I don't think it's exclusive to the black community.

Definitely not just exclusive to the black community. Things are ingrained in to certain communities, living in Northern Ireland I'm sure you can relate to that.

[Guest alex]

Problem with CT's theory is that the government has cut public sector jobs and the private sector taking up the slack, the increase in exports by UK companies and so on that was predicted by the government hasn't materialised and shows no sign of doing so at present.

 

There will always be an excuse Alex, no matter what the economy is like or which government is in power. With regard to imigrants, how many times have we heard the line that they do the work the english wont. The english wont because they can get by on benefits.

 

Available work and excellent benefits are the reason imigrants come here. Less benefits for the people already here and making the avaialable work the option will reduce claimants and imigrants, both which will benefit an already overcowded island particularly with a bleak economic outlook for decades to come.

 

That "nice" TORY, whose name escapes me, that has been looking at the benefit system for years and is trying to change it is spot on.

 

(not a racial point btw).

I'm not sure what you think I'm making an excuse for. I was pointing out that a economic climate with less jobs around means that more unemployed is inevitable. Ignoring party politics it's not really the time to decrease the amount of people on benefits, in fact it's absolutely inevitable that the amount of people on them will increase. To get back to party politics the government's policies clearly aren't working in the way they are because the economy hasn't responded to their policies in the way they said it would. Hate to say I told you so...

 

I was basically saying that there will also be an excuse not to get going with necessary reforms, particularly benefits. It should have been addressed by Labour in 97 when the world went through a boom period but better late than never.

 

And we will always need a main benefit safety net but its way past a safety net.

 

Re the economy, I think its fairly evident the world is pretty fucked and there will be no quick fixes. I cant really see it getting any better in my lifetime. I think there is a massive worldwide correction going on and things will never return to the way they were unless something unknown at present comes along.

 

It will be difficult for those who have lived through prosperous times, but as always in life, future generations will just adjust to that enviroment.

 

I compare it to NUFC under SJH. The likes of me and you know we will probably never have it that good again and it will always taint our enjoyment of NUFC to some degree. Kids who are just getting into football now dont have that baggage.

 

I also believe borrowing more money to try and prop up the "good times" in the hope they will come back is not the answer. It wasnt for Fred and it isnt for Dave.

As I'm sure the Tory you were on about (I know who you mean but can't remember either) will discover, it's virtually impossible to get it anywhere near perfect. The necessary reforms you're on about will, imo, turn out to be rhetoric, as with every other plan to get tough on scroungers etc. HF is right in many ways, the bank bail out makes the amount of people on benefits as a whole (not just those who are taking the hit and miss) look like a very small drop in the ocean. If you accept that the banks had a huge role to play in the current economic climate (and I think it's impossible not to share that view) then perhaps we should question why the reforms on financial institutions aren't top of the agenda. The reason is because, like Chez said, we're being peddled a lie.

[Kitman 2207]

It seems to me the welfare system has spawned generations for whom sitting on their arse and claiming benefits is a way of life and yet they still complain they're hard done to. It also provides a safety net for Somali immigrants to prepare bombs to terrorize the populace. In between these extremes are people genuinely in need who would literally starve to death without state aid.

 

Plainly the uk cannot afford to fund hand outs on an epic scale and it infuriates taxpayers when times are hard to see some twat in a tracksuit looting small businesses which will never recover. However I would worry that any root and branch reform is going to hit the genuinely needy whilst rightly targetting work shy chavs who prefer to while away the day by smoking blow and playing on the xbox.

 

It's a tough thing to get right I reckon.

[Renton 22032]

My mate made a great point this morning, it was never going to happen here or in Scotland, and everyone knows why, it's just no one likes to admit it. Awful state of affairs when you can't speak your own mind in 2011. It'll only get worse with the amount of PC wankers around sadly. The world needs people like Leazes Mag to ask questions, they'll die out eventually and we'll all be conformist robots with the same opinions and attitudes for fear of offending people.

 

 

Howay Stevie, spit it out. You know you can virtually say anything on here, and Tom has already offered to look at your post before it's published if you're that worried.

 

What is it that you want to say but can't? You're making it sound you're to the right of Hitler with these cryptic posts.

[ewerk 31237]

My mate made a great point this morning, it was never going to happen here or in Scotland, and everyone knows why, it's just no one likes to admit it. Awful state of affairs when you can't speak your own mind in 2011. It'll only get worse with the amount of PC wankers around sadly. The world needs people like Leazes Mag to ask questions, they'll die out eventually and we'll all be conformist robots with the same opinions and attitudes for fear of offending people.

 

 

Howay Stevie, spit it out. You know you can virtually say anything on here, and Tom has already offered to look at your post before it's published if you're that worried.

 

What is it that you want to say but can't? You're making it sound you're to the right of Hitler with these cryptic posts.

 

We have a winner!

[McFaul 35]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

Won't happen here for reasons I've discussed. Shola's family aren't going to start owt on their own. Won't happen in Scotland neither.

[Guest alex]

My mate made a great point this morning, it was never going to happen here or in Scotland, and everyone knows why, it's just no one likes to admit it. Awful state of affairs when you can't speak your own mind in 2011. It'll only get worse with the amount of PC wankers around sadly. The world needs people like Leazes Mag to ask questions, they'll die out eventually and we'll all be conformist robots with the same opinions and attitudes for fear of offending people.

 

 

Howay Stevie, spit it out. You know you can virtually say anything on here, and Tom has already offered to look at your post before it's published if you're that worried.

 

What is it that you want to say but can't? You're making it sound you're to the right of Hitler with these cryptic posts.

 

We have a winner!

Does Godwin's Law apply at all times? I'm fairly sure it's null and void in Holocaust discussions

[wykikitoon 20903]

Does Godwin's Law apply at all times? I'm fairly sure it's null and void in Holocaust discussions

 

Haha I tried an experiment on here with my allotment, never worked

[Guest alex]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

And waste more taxpayers money?

Even murder cases etc. usually start off with a hearing at the magistrates, don't they? They just get passed up the line if it's more serious.

[Renton 22032]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

Won't happen here for reasons I've discussed. Shola's family aren't going to start owt on their own. Won't happen in Scotland neither.

 

As you said, you were a kid at school at the time, but the Meadow Well riots were sparked by some joy riding scum wrapping their car around a lamp post after they were chased by police. Their parents claimed they were 'professional' car thieves 'murdered' by the police. Given that context, it almost makes the London riots seem laudable in comparison. It's got fuck all to do with race and all to do with a lack of morality or empathy present in the under class.

[Christmas Tree 4858]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

Won't happen here for reasons I've discussed. Shola's family aren't going to start owt on their own. Won't happen in Scotland neither.

 

Unfortunately Stevie it will be the same lambrini drinking scum you saw first hand abusing bystanders and vandalising cars at Darlington.

[Christmas Tree 4858]

Gemmil and Joey.....separated at birth

 

@Joey7Barton

Joseph Barton

 

Water cannon, nice! Always makes good TV. Hope all u robbing little ferrets are out tonight, u will get dismantled

[Happy Face 29]

When coming from a ridiculously high position, no it isn't.

 

More of a gift than cutting benefits which were already at a ridiculously low position though.

[Renton 22032]

Kind of ironic that if Barton wasn't a footballer he'd more than likely be a looter like.

[Gemmill 46182]

Gemmil and Joey.....separated at birth

 

@Joey7Barton

Joseph Barton

 

Water cannon, nice! Always makes good TV. Hope all u robbing little ferrets are out tonight, u will get dismantled

 

I'm going round his to watch it.

[McFaul 35]

carolinecheese Caroline Cheese

BBC says 1st person in dock at Highbury Mag Ct today was a 31-year-old teacher. She pleaded guilty to looting of Richer Sounds in Croydon

 

Yet most are being told the magistrate courts dont have the power to sentence. They should set up a special court and make some examples and broadcast that 24/7 on sky news for the copy catters.

 

I fear a bit for Newcastle city centre on Saturday. Hopefully there will be enough grown ups around to clip a few ears if people get silly.

Won't happen here for reasons I've discussed. Shola's family aren't going to start owt on their own. Won't happen in Scotland neither.

 

As you said, you were a kid at school at the time, but the Meadow Well riots were sparked by some joy riding scum wrapping their car around a lamp post after they were chased by police. Their parents claimed they were 'professional' car thieves 'murdered' by the police. Given that context, it almost makes the London riots seem laudable in comparison. It's got fuck all to do with race and all to do with a lack of morality or empathy present in the under class.

Well that's all fine, but explain the figures to me then. Why are 80% of these people black, when there are perhaps three times as many white poor people in London as there are black people. It's alright offering in my opinion non existant similarities between 1991 and 2011, but explain those figures to me, and try and look at it from a neutral view point for a change, rather than some George Galloway type figure.

[Christmas Tree 4858]

What really boils my piss is rather than strong politicians getting together to discuss the "plan" for the next few weeks to restore order, its going to turn into "but you are reducing police numbers"....."your reducing by 10,000.....we were only going to reduce by 7,000".

 

Unless drastic action is taken now, this could just re-start each time the police move away. Remember this is criminal riots not protests that got out of hand.

 

I would be interested to hear what action some of you would take to ensure this will not happen every weekend, rather than just discussing the "bigger" picture of cause and long term solution.

[Happy Face 29]

When coming from a ridiculously high position, no it isn't.

 

More of a gift than cutting benefits which were already at a ridiculously low position though.

 

...on top of getting the poor to chip in towards the wealthy folks income tax cuts by doubling VAT since it's introduction.

 

Scroungers.