NJS 4350 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 If we were outplaying teams then my mind would be changed, but we predicatbly raised our game and out-battled Arsenal and seemed to have rode our luck and have Shay to thank again at West Ham. It's not been pretty, and the board should be looking at other options. You hom. 69461[/snapback] Thats my view - I'm a "give him time" man but the performances have made me lean towards the out camp (though still not enthused by any alternatives). I think people are overstating West Ham from Saturday. I thought we deserved it quite comfortably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Thats my view - I'm a "give him time" man but the performances have made me lean towards the out camp (though still not enthused by any alternatives). I think people are overstating West Ham from Saturday. I thought we deserved it quite comfortably. 69473[/snapback] I know apart from 2 bizarre errors from midfield we could have won it 4-0, but in general do you not feel that we're not creating the chances neccessary to contend a champions league spot? We're not going to stick 4 of 5 (?) in the net every week, even with Michael Owen. They had a lot of the ball as well. I'm not really that bothered by the Wigan result as I really only care about the league this year but it was the final straw for me as I thought the team had stopped playing for him, the last couple of matches have proved me wrong on that. So now I'm stuck somewhere between 'give him time' and 'get him out' but ultimately I can't see his tactics working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Nope, just pointing out that when we do have a couple of good results, those posters whose only craic is "Souness out, rarrrrrr, splat, grrrr!" go missing. 69459[/snapback] And all that's left are those whose craic is a 'Souness Out?' based thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I can't see him working things out long term but unless someone GREAT becomes available very soon, I can't see much point in getting rid before the end of the season. Mind, I think if Barry had scored that penalty his position would have become untenable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 Nope, just pointing out that when we do have a couple of good results, those posters whose only craic is "Souness out, rarrrrrr, splat, grrrr!" go missing. 69459[/snapback] And all that's left are those whose craic is a 'Souness Out?' based thread. 69481[/snapback] It's more a "Souness-Outer" based thread tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6670 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 My mind is now made up that I want him replaced, despite the last two results (which honestly flattered us). I was prepared to give him time to show what he can do and while I think in general, the signings he's made have been positive, there's two factors on which I feel he's cooked his goose: 1) Tactically I think he's inept. 2) The reduction of the size of the squad during the summer. The second point may have been out of his control in that Fat Fred may have ordered him to reduce overheads, but if that is the case, surely they should communicate that to us? Bearing in mind that the size of the squad was so dramatically reduced, I think the constant mitigating claims that we've been unlucky with injuries loses some substance. That being said, I have always stated, and I continue to maintain that I'd rather we win and he keeps his job than us lose and he gets the sack. Ergo, the net result of the past 10 days is that I'm happy. As a side point, I think the two results have saved Souness for the rest of the season. He definitely won't be sacked this side of the new year on the back of those victories and not even Fat Fred would sack a manager during the one month where he can wheel and deal. And to sack him between February and May I think would be of little benefit to the season. Fingers crossed, they're already getting things underway with regards to replacing him next summer though. (who am I kidding?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 If we were outplaying teams then my mind would be changed, but we predicatbly raised our game and out-battled Arsenal and seemed to have rode our luck and have Shay to thank again at West Ham. It's not been pretty, and the board should be looking at other options. You hom. 69461[/snapback] I'm not saying anyone should change their mind, you rotter! 69467[/snapback] Oooo...you cad! Winning is GREAT, and fans like to savour the moment rather that put a dampner on it. Even Renton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 If we were outplaying teams then my mind would be changed, but we predicatbly raised our game and out-battled Arsenal and seemed to have rode our luck and have Shay to thank again at West Ham. It's not been pretty, and the board should be looking at other options. You hom. 69461[/snapback] I'm not saying anyone should change their mind, you rotter! 69467[/snapback] Oooo...you cad! Winning is GREAT, and fans like to savour the moment rather that put a dampner on it. Even Renton. 69495[/snapback] I'm in a win win situation tbh. If we win, I'm happy. If we lose, I can taunt people I don't know over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I still don't think sacking him now would be a good answer, even if he is not good enough. The team is on a high after two good results, and a sacking of the manager (who the players tend to like) may spoil it. Obviously, it wouldn't happen anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I still don't think sacking him now would be a good answer, even if he is not good enough. The team is on a high after two good results, and a sacking of the manager (who the players tend to like) may spoil it. Obviously, it wouldn't happen anyway. 69500[/snapback] What's that based on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3889 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 As the optomistic nut has posted elsewhere since the close of the transfer window results in the league Pl 13. W7. D3. L3. Now obviously it hasnt been pretty, but sacking the bloke seems daft to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3776 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I just lost the will to keep banging my head against a brick wall arguing with idiots who think the man can change. he is a crap manager who has no tactics. Who can honestly say we played well the last 2 games. ALthough the resulkts are the main thing we are not playing well and without Owen we struggle. We will not qualify for Europe this season although I fully expect Souness to still be here until the end of the season. We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4350 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I don't see how anyone could argue with, or be surprised by, him being sacked if we don't qualify for Europe (which I think is achievable). Its the "sack him now" and get another similar level manager that I think is daft. Incidentally I saw one of the tabloids had a "Hitzfeld for Man U" story on Saturday - echoing my view that thats where he'll end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 I don't see how anyone could argue with, or be surprised by, him being sacked if we don't qualify for Europe (which I think is achievable). Its the "sack him now" and get another similar level manager that I think is daft. Incidentally I saw one of the tabloids had a "Hitzfeld for Man U" story on Saturday - echoing my view that thats where he'll end up. 69515[/snapback] Well yes, I conceded with Craig of all people there is no point in sacking him now without a really good replacement, but should one become available (like Hitzfeld), I don't think anyone would object to cutting Souness loose now, would they? Either way, Shepherd has to start looking for a replacement now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 (edited) I don't see how anyone could argue with, or be surprised by, him being sacked if we don't qualify for Europe (which I think is achievable). Its the "sack him now" and get another similar level manager that I think is daft. 69515[/snapback] And I can't see Newcastle finishing in top six with Souness in charge. We will end up somewhere between 8th and 12th (depending how often Mickey Owen is fit). Even a caretaker should be able to get more out of the squad. I'd rather give Shearer a chance with the help of Roeder than allowing Souness to lower the standards more and more by his inapt regime. Edited December 19, 2005 by Isegrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him. 69532[/snapback] How have I conveniently forgotten Gullit? I just assumed that seen as we weren't discussing him I could get away without mentioning his name tbh. And no I don't think it's reasonable to EXPECT CL Qualification. I didn't think it was reasonable to expect it under Robson either. It was great when it happened, but I never thought that we'd all of a sudden made it and could expect to do it every season, and I think you'd have to be a bit daft to think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 9652 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him. 69532[/snapback] How have I conveniently forgotten Gullit? I just assumed that seen as we weren't discussing him I could get away without mentioning his name tbh. And no I don't think it's reasonable to EXPECT CL Qualification. I didn't think it was reasonable to expect it under Robson either. It was great when it happened, but I never thought that we'd all of a sudden made it and could expect to do it every season, and I think you'd have to be a bit daft to think that way. 69534[/snapback] Well, how many teams really have a better squad than Newcastle? Chelsea, of course. Despite their various problems, ManUre and Arsenal still have better players. I'd say Liverpool have better players either. After that I think Newcastle come 5th. Though, there is always one of the top four struggling. It was Chelsea before Abramowich and Mourinho came in, then it was Liverpool, now it is Arsenal. Newcastle should be able to take profit from this, especially when investing heavily in a squad that before was able to break into the dominance of the top teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 20954 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 We will have attained mid table mediocrity and everyone of the Souness lovers will tell us that is great cos we didnt get relegated. And then demand he gets another season until we become the next Charlton.69508[/snapback] That's just bollocks. There are no "Souness lovers" (apart from me, obviously) and no one will celebrate the fact that we don't get relegated. Or demand another season for the bloke if that's all we achieve. 69510[/snapback] The expectations have been lowered though Gemmill, otherwise how is he still here after last season? What's acceptable to you again - 6th place and no silverware? Less than what Robson achieved with less money anyway. 69514[/snapback] I expect us to qualify for Europe this season, so I don't think expectations have necessarily been lowered, as I never expected us to qualify for the Champions' League. He's still here after last season because it's ridiculous to give someone less than a season to prove themselves. 69527[/snapback] You don't think it is reasonable to expect CL qualification with the money spent, considering the squad Souness inherited (the best ever apparently) and our previous placings? COnsidering the league now is undoubtedly one of the weakest ever bar Chelsea? As for your second point, it was ridiculous to give him the job in the first place. Once again I could mention Gullit, but you conveniently seem to forget about him. 69532[/snapback] How have I conveniently forgotten Gullit? I just assumed that seen as we weren't discussing him I could get away without mentioning his name tbh. And no I don't think it's reasonable to EXPECT CL Qualification. I didn't think it was reasonable to expect it under Robson either. It was great when it happened, but I never thought that we'd all of a sudden made it and could expect to do it every season, and I think you'd have to be a bit daft to think that way. 69534[/snapback] I mention Gullit to show your theory that one season in charge is never enough is pure bullshit, unless you would have been happy to stick with him for a further year. You've always evaded this point in the past. Amazing that we have the second biggest fan base in the league and certainly have spent more than anyone other than Chelsea, and you don't expect CL qualification. Liverpool do. Tell me, what's the difference between us (hint: it begins with M)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4350 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well, how many teams really have a better squad than Newcastle? Chelsea, of course. Despite their various problems, ManUre and Arsenal still have better players. I'd say Liverpool have better players either. After that I think Newcastle come 5th. Though, there is always one of the top four struggling. It was Chelsea before Abramowich and Mourinho came in, then it was Liverpool, now it is Arsenal. Newcastle should be able to take profit from this, especially when investing heavily in a squad that before was able to break into the dominance of the top teams. 69535[/snapback] Thats the way I see it - the top 4 SHOULD be those 4 and if we're lucky/do well/they falter then 4th or 3rd is possible. It would be possible imo to break into that if we could get a Wenger/Morinho/Ferguson/Benitez calibre of manager and therein lies the crux. I think Bobby and possibly Souness (just) are good enough to get that 5th/possible higher but thats our lot at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4350 Posted December 19, 2005 Share Posted December 19, 2005 Liverpool do. Tell me, what's the difference between us (hint: it begins with M)? 69538[/snapback] No it begins with A - Arrogance based on history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 43853 Posted December 19, 2005 Author Share Posted December 19, 2005 I mention Gullit to show your theory that one season in charge is never enough is pure bullshit, unless you would have been happy to stick with him for a further year. You've always evaded this point in the past. Amazing that we have the second biggest fan base in the league and certainly have spent more than anyone other than Chelsea, and you don't expect CL qualification. Liverpool do. Tell me, what's the difference between us (hint: it begins with M)? 69538[/snapback] That point has never been put to me in the past, you mentalist! You're adopting the Leazes Mag "homeless-mental-man-shouting-at-someone-that-isn't-there" approach to arguing. I honestly have no idea what the answer to your I-spy question is though. Is it "Maybe-that's-because-Liverpool-won-the-fucking-thing-last-year"? Liverpool fans expect to win the bloody league every year too - should we do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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