Amy Winehouse

[ChezGiven 0]

My mate Mark has been friends with her since she was 19 (the lad who played with Bassment Jaxx, toured with Girls Aloud etc) and she did smoke a bit of weed when she was younger but nothing heavy. Anyway, bizarrely enough its Mark's birthday the day before my daughter's. We were in London in June for her birthday to celebrate with my mates whose daughter was also 1 that weekend. Mark had been out for 2 days for his birthday with all his music industry mates and with Amy. He was threatening to come over to my daughter's party and to bring her along but my mate's wife had said no way, for a number of reasons but primarily because it was fairly well known that the doctors had told her one more drink could kill her. Strange but true.

 

She was an exceptional talent and despite her problems with drugs was a good person. Such a shame.

[Tom 14013]

And I can only assume your attitude and comments toward this woman stem from a deep jealousy of the wealth she accrued through her talent.

She may be dead, but she'll make more money in death than you'll ever have a sniff at, unless you win the lottery. So all that leaves you is snide comments. Type away. What a wonderful culture we live in.

 

Could say the same about you and Doherty tbh.

[PaddockLad 17689]

I have to take issue with the Doherty comparison: Pete Doherty cannot play any musical instrument, sing, or write songs to a standard where he could be considered a great talent. He had a talent for self-promotion and used the internet cleverly to build up a devoted fanbase who would buy his faeces if he put it up for sale. The music press then hyped him to oblivion, and his relationship with Kate Moss brought a level of media attention that his music never warranted.

 

Amy Winehouse on the other hand made a fortune out of her music and her talent. She wasn't a junkie when she was signed to her contract; her addictions appear from a distance to have been an unfortunate byproduct of her mental problems and the people she associated with. I have to say you're talking absolute shite when you say she made a fortune out of the fact she was a junkie.

Doherty plays guitar and co-wrote most of the Libertines stuff and as far as I believe wrote most of the Babyshambles songs. Hes classed as good enough a singer to have colaborated with other singers. As for Winehouse not making her money out of being a junkie, whats the song shes most well known for about again?

 

As far as talent goes I think both have way more than they deserve based on the way they chose to waste it.

 

Listen pal, I know about music. Doherty's guitar playing is absolutely abysmal, the worst I've heard from anyone who makes a living as a musician. As I said, he cannot play any instrument, "to a standard where he could be considered a great talent," by anyone who knows anything about playing musical instruments, that is. I'm well aware Doherty wrote Libertines/Babyshambles songs. That material isn't great. None of his songs captured the imagination of the fans of popular music in the way a song like 'Rehab' did. Qualitatively Winehouse's songwriting is much better than Doherty's, whose fans can only point to the occasional near-wit of, "an englishman in a baseball cap." Whoop de fucking do.

Anyone with ears and a functioning brain can tell that Amy Winehouse is so far superior a singer to the likes of Doherty as to not even warrant comparison. Winehouse used her songwriting and vocal talent to create a hit that referenced her struggle with alcoholism. Does that constitute making money out of being a junkie? Now you just sound stupid. And I can only assume your attitude and comments toward this woman stem from a deep jealousy of the wealth she accrued through her talent.

She may be dead, but she'll make more money in death than you'll ever have a sniff at, unless you win the lottery. So all that leaves you is snide comments. Type away. What a wonderful culture we live in.

 

Do you?..are you a musician or a "just" a fan?

 

Thing is you don't need to be talented to be successful. I'd much rather listen to anything Doherty has done than anything Winehouse has done. Thats just personal taste. That doesn't mean that Doherty is more talented though does it? For me though Doherty is very much in keeping with what you might call classic English guitarist/ songwriters going back to the likes of those 2 from the Beatles, Ray Davies, the better glam bands like T Rex Slade etc through punk and new wave where you get Weller and Costello up to Noel Gallagher.. Some of these were more talented than others but they could all write good songs in what I'd call an very "English" way. Amy Winehouse was Jewish British and sang like an African American....fair enough in a way and not uncommon for someone from here to imitate the yanks, but for me she was a bit inauthentic considering her background. Maybe she just imititated what she heard growing up, which is again fair enough in a way. But she always struck me as trying a bit too hard to be something she wasnt. Put me off her a bit. But she did write good songs. She''ll be missed musically and obviously by her family a great deal. A sad loss.

 

As for the rest of your post chill the fuck out old son its Sunday lunch time

 

I'm a musician, not a particularly talented one. If you want to quantify my ability, I can play classical pieces (guitar) of a grade 6/7 standard. I mainly play electric guitar atm though, transcribing blues records note-for-note (Freddie King, Albert King, so on). I can read and write music and know some music theory. Basically, if you put me through musical aptitude tests against your average non-musician, I would win comfortably. I'm better qualified to judge musical talent than, say, PeasePud and Ant. You can call that arrogant, but it's true.

 

Doherty's guitar playing is particularly bad. There are some musicians who play in an idiosyncratic style which isn't technically correct, but sounds great. Doherty's is just plain shit. The lyrics I don't care for. He's not worthy of comparison to Mccartney and some of the other songwriters you've listed there; even the likes of Noel Gallagher I would say are substantially more talented than Doherty. The fact is, the Libertines and Doherty built a very devoted fanbase via the internet, arranging gigs at a fan's flat and so on. That is great marketing. The music press picked up on this and hyped them a lot, it set them apart from the average shitty-indie-guitar-band that we currently see no end of. They were not a band of particular merit: the material and musicianship weren't extraordinary by any measure. They played on their hedonistic drug-fuelled image, the fans lapped it up. When Doherty started fucking Kate Moss--an important stage in every musician's career--his fame exploded rapidly. The material I've seen him promote as a solo artist, and the performances of it, have been shit. He is a person whose success has more to do with hype, fame and marketing than talent.

 

Fair enough, but as I say talent doesnt always equal success and vice versa. And as you say, he wasnt really that popular either before getting in the tabloids via Moss. But a couple of years back on a Friday night I went to see the Kaiser Chiefs and then the following Monday went to the same venue to see Babyshambles. That Ricky from the Chiefs is a good frontman if you have a fondness for the "performing gibbon on amphetamine" school of showmanship..he and they were ok, but he seemed to be trying a bit too hard for my liking. Cut to Monday, and whatever it is you need to create an actual riot just by apppearing on stage then there is no doubt Doherty had/has it in spades.He was straight for that tour, the band were tight and he sang like an angel. I think his stage charisma is very underrated, he's just got it iyam, in a way that the likes if Ricky thingy just hasn't, for all his running around the stage like a fuckin loon.

 

Very impressed with your mucsical credentials btw, nowt wrong with blowing your own trumpet

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

And I can only assume your attitude and comments toward this woman stem from a deep jealousy of the wealth she accrued through her talent.

She may be dead, but she'll make more money in death than you'll ever have a sniff at, unless you win the lottery. So all that leaves you is snide comments. Type away. What a wonderful culture we live in.

 

Could say the same about you and Doherty tbh.

 

Why? I think he's a bad musician. I don't begrudge him the money he's earnt in the music industry, couldn't care less about it tbh, I'm merely judging him as a musician. I think the way The Libertines marketed and promoted themselves had a lot to do with their success, something that has been well-documented. Despite the fact that Doherty is a really terrible guitar player, there were one or two songs he's been involved with that were listenable. They were the minority though, I think his material is largely poor. On this basis I don't think he warrants comparison with Winehouse who had an exceptional voice and found mainstream success with her songs.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Tom 14013]

The first record is awesome tbh & I don't think Doherty is really a bad guitar player. I don't really think good/bad always has to come into it. I've seen thousands of people jumping to the music of 'bad' guitar players.

[ChezGiven 0]

For the record, KSA has impeccable music taste and knows his onions.

[PaddockLad 17689]

The first record is awesome tbh & I don't think Doherty is really a bad guitar player. I don't really think good/bad always has to come into it. I've seen thousands of people jumping to the music of 'bad' guitar players.

 

Thats my point....punk rock didnt have many virtuoso "players" but the likes of Steve Cook from the Sex Pistols certainly had energy and charisma. It doesnt have to be note perfect and very technical to have musical merit. All you need is 3 chords to write a song....

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

The first record is awesome tbh & I don't think Doherty is really a bad guitar player. I don't really think good/bad always has to come into it. I've seen thousands of people jumping to the music of 'bad' guitar players.

 

I concur that good/bad doesn't have to come into it. I did say that some musicians have styles which whilst not technically correct, sound great. Doherty's playing isn't technically proper and it sounds awful! I'm basing this on acoustic performances I've seen of him which were truly cringeworthy viewing. A friend tried to turn me on to the Libertines first album and I just didn't take to it. It didn't offend me, but I just thought they were an average band musically. They did get a lot of hype from the music press, I'm not just making stuff up to hate on them. As a solo artist, I think Doherty is worse, it also brings his musicianship to the fore which is a bad thing.

[Renton 22007]

For the record, KSA has impeccable music taste and knows his onions.

 

One man's impeccable taste is another man's dirge though.

 

Quite a bizarre comparison going on here between Doherty and Winehouse, based on their use of hard drugs rather than their musical output. I personally think it's a bit of a shame that both were hounded for their dug use anyway, considering it's the natural hobby of alternative musicians. At least Amy can join Curt, Janice, and Jimmy in the celestial 27 club I suppose.

 

Personally, I'd rate both Up the bracket and Back to black as massive influential albums of the last decade or so. Given the option though I go for the Libertines as it at least puts a smile on my face.

[Tom 14013]

The first record is awesome tbh & I don't think Doherty is really a bad guitar player. I don't really think good/bad always has to come into it. I've seen thousands of people jumping to the music of 'bad' guitar players.

 

I concur that good/bad doesn't have to come into it. I did say that some musicians have styles which whilst not technically correct, sound great. Doherty's playing isn't technically proper and it sounds awful! I'm basing this on acoustic performances I've seen of him which were truly cringeworthy viewing. A friend tried to turn me on to the Libertines first album and I just didn't take to it. It didn't offend me, but I just thought they were an average band musically. They did get a lot of hype from the music press, I'm not just making stuff up to hate on them. As a solo artist, I think Doherty is worse, it also brings his musicianship to the fore which is a bad thing.

 

Yeh his acoustic stuff is awful but I reckon if you sober him up & whack him in a studio he could probably play well. To be a good indie band you generally don't have to be great musically, that's kind of the point.

 

I listened to the first Libertines album when I was 16 & at that stage it was one of the best records I'd heard.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

The first record is awesome tbh & I don't think Doherty is really a bad guitar player. I don't really think good/bad always has to come into it. I've seen thousands of people jumping to the music of 'bad' guitar players.

 

Thats my point....punk rock didnt have many virtuoso "players" but the likes of Steve Cook from the Sex Pistols certainly had energy and charisma. It doesnt have to be note perfect and very technical to have musical merit. All you need is 3 chords to write a song....

 

That's it like - 'true perfection has to be imperfect'

 

Is music a science ?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

You can fluff notes in certain styles of music and it doesn't matter, it still sounds great. Caruso didn't have that luxury.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

point taken (to some extent) but mainly in that it was 'popular music' of it's time too .

 

Bob Dylan , he's gotta be deaf as a post - why the acclaim there ?

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

point taken (to some extent) but mainly in that it was 'popular music' of it's time too .

 

Bob Dylan , he's gotta be deaf as a post - why the acclaim there ?

 

I wasn't being completely serious, hence the wink. Funny, in an interview in the 60s Dylan was asked about his 'unique' singing style. He said, "I can hold a note as long as Caruso." Dylan is capable of writing incredible lyrics with real power and insight, not merely cronichling the preferred headwear of the English working-class.

 

"Englishman wearin baseball cap... ohh oh-oh-oh-ohhhh... thank you vewy much; a rote that one for katy on the bog in Pentonvillee"

Edited July 24, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Tom 14013]

Bill Bones knows what I mean

He knows theres fewer more distressing sights than that

Of an Englishman in a baseball cap

And we'll die in the class we were born

But that's a class of our own my love

A class of our own my love

 

Great lyrics for me but they weren't trying to be Dylan.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

point taken (to some extent) but mainly in that it was 'popular music' of it's time too .

 

Bob Dylan , he's gotta be deaf as a post - why the acclaim there ?

 

I wasn't being completely serious, hence the wink. Funny, in an interview in the 60s Dylan was asked about his 'unique' singing style. He said, "I can hold a note as long as Caruso." Dylan is capable of writing incredible lyrics with real power and insight, not merely cronichling the preferred headwear of the English working-class.

 

"Englishman wearin baseball cap... ohh oh-oh-oh-ohhhh... thank you vewy much; a rote that one for katy on the bog in Pentonvillee"

 

I know was tongue in cheek mate - was just 'throwing it up the pole' so to speak.

 

fwiw - i couldn't give two shiny ones about Wino or Doccaz ! didn't mind his 'For Lovers' and 'Likely Lads' though . With AW i found her patoire (sp?) singing style cringeworthy 'innit bruv' . Same with that PlanB carry on . Canny vocalists in their own right but struggling with a.n. identity if y ask me. Definately a 'London thing' .

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Here's a song of Doherty's that whilst I don't like, I can still agree with the sentiment:

 

FUCK FOWEVERRRRRRRR

because I'm so clever

But clever ain't wise

and Fuck forever

If you don't mind

oh fuck forever

if you dont mind oh dont mind i dont mind i dont mind

ohhhh oh-oh-oh ohhhhhhhh

FUCKKKK FOWOWWEEEVVVVERRRRRR

yeahhhhhh ohhhhhhhhhhh

FOWEEVVERRR AND EVERRRR AND EVERRR

oohhhh oh-oh-oh ohhhhhhhhh

I may not be Wordsworth but my penis has decent girth

ohhh oh-oh-oh ohhhhhhhh

FUCKKK FOWEEVEVRRRR

[sammynb 3517]

There are those that do and those that criticise.

 

 

edit: RIP Amy.

Edited July 24, 2011 by sammynb

[Billy Castell 0]

I'm not even particularly a fan of her music, I haven't listened to any of her albums in full. You could see her talent though, and I just think it's sad the glee people take in the misfortune of a talented person, also a diagnosed manic-depressive with all the associated baggage of addiction and so on. And I think it has everything to do with envy - all about the money.

 

Amy was better than Doherty in every way, but that's not a surprise. I have nothing to envy either of them, their money is/was pissed up against the wall, their lives and their health is/was a mess and so on. So she was a manic depressive, whoopee do. So are many other people, but they don't waste their lives becoming addicted to every susbstance known to humanity despite knowing the dangers. I suffer from depression and have had days where I wish I would kill disappear from society altogether, or had visions of suicide but I know not to do drugs or hit the bottle. I do not take glee in Amy's death, but she was fucking stupid to start the heavy duty drugs, and paid the price so not much sympathy from me. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

 

Her music was pretty shit, and she sounded like a strangled cat, but I think the fact she helped launch the career of Mark Ronson is what gets on my tits the most.

[Brock Manson 0]

Her music was pretty shit, and she sounded like a strangled cat, but I think the fact she helped launch the career of Mark Ronson is what gets on my tits the most.

 

Can't stand the prick. Leeches off of other performers and has somehow slimed his way to megabucks.

[tinofbeans 91]

Her music was pretty shit, and she sounded like a strangled cat, but I think the fact she helped launch the career of Mark Ronson is what gets on my tits the most.

 

Can't stand the prick. Leeches off of other performers and has somehow slimed his way to megabucks.

yep. the mark ronson trick to sliming your way to the "top".

 

1) add horns

 

there is no 2,3,4,or 5. he's painfully shit.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

Elton John has confirmed he'll be performing at her funeral with a heart felt rendition of Candle under the spoon.

[Howmanheyman 33887]

Elton John has confirmed he'll be performing at her funeral with a heart felt rendition of Candle under the spoon.

You shouldn't like but......

 

As an aside, that Elton John must be the most compassionate man in the music industry, first Diana, now Amy and also the often forgotten tribute to Mother Teresa, 'Sandles in the bin'.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

Amy winehouse bumps in to lady Diana at the pearly gates.. Amy says to her " why is your halo black.?. Diana reply's " you must still be out of it darling it's a steering wheel..,,,,

[Guest Geordio Armani]