The Andy Carroll Con

[Holden McGroin 6588]

As I said in pre-season. Its purely a preception thing. If Ba was signed for £7m and Cabaye for £10m then our outlook would have been completely different.

 

still leaves 27m quid though ?

 

Wasn't that the reason for selling Carroll ie to improve the team and back the manager, what could you do with 27m quid in the transfer market ? There is no reason whatsover why they should not be allocating all of that money to Pardew to improve the team as much as possible.

 

Did they actually say they would improve the team? It was purposefully worded as "going back into the club" which didn't sound like that to me. Anyway, we all wish they would aim a bit higher but its going well at the moment. Whether they have the balls to attack a CL spot in the next couple of years is another thing.

[McFaul 35]

Anyone who uses the word ergo is a pretentious moron

You can't say that. You could say that about caveat and verbose if you're going to say that, but Alex is quite clearly a nice bloke.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Anyone who uses the word ergo is a pretentious moron

You can't say that. You could say that about caveat and verbose if you're going to say that, but Alex is quite clearly a nice bloke.

 

He's been at it again, this time with.......nihilistic

[McFaul 35]

Anyone who uses the word ergo is a pretentious moron

You can't say that. You could say that about caveat and verbose if you're going to say that, but Alex is quite clearly a nice bloke.

 

He's been at it again, this time with.......nihilistic

 

I think I'll start reading The Guardian. Someone will know what it means. Either I've got a shite vocabulary or Alex has an outstanding one, probably a bit of both. I wouldn't care I got an A for GCSE English Language.

[dbsweeney 0]

Anyone who uses the word ergo is a pretentious moron

You can't say that. You could say that about caveat and verbose if you're going to say that, but Alex is quite clearly a nice bloke.

 

He's been at it again, this time with.......nihilistic

 

I think I'll start reading The Guardian. Someone will know what it means. Either I've got a shite vocabulary or Alex has an outstanding one, probably a bit of both. I wouldn't care I got an A for GCSE English Language.

 

You guys need to read more.

[LeazesMag 0]

I've not kept up Leazes, but when you're mentally spending the Carroll cash, why aren't you taking the Obertan, Cabaye, Ben Arfa,Santon fees into account too exactly?

 

in that case, can we take into account Milner, Given, Bassong, Nolan, N'Zogbia, Enrique [first few names off the top of my head]. I thought the point of selling Carroll was because it was "good business", and don't big progressive clubs back their managers, especially one that is - or was - 14th highest turnover in football ?

 

Quite what exactly "good business" meant, if the manager has finally replaced Andy Carroll with 7m quid or so of this 35m quid, where is the rest being spent to improve the team, if we accept that Cabaye was a replacement for Nolan, and nobody as yet has replaced Barton either ? It looks like good business for Mike Ashley, or wherever the money has been siphoned off, maybe Sports Direct or the gambling casinos, I don't know.

 

You're not one of the dumbo's on here, you understand perfectly well the difference between build, improve and back your manager rather than operating a sell and replace policy, which is what the club is doing. This is the reason why temporary improvement, if at all, is down to astute judgement by the manager and the squad overall is not good enough or big enough.

 

There is no reason whatsoever that N'Zogbia, Bassong, Enrique, Nolan, Barton and even Carroll despite the fee, given what we have spent since he left, could not all still have been here, and we would have had a much bigger and stronger squad of players.

 

As soon as the astute manager goes, so does the miracle working under these conditions, because that is exactly what it is.

 

The club is a selling club again, like it was under the McKeags, Seymours etc, anybody who doesn't see this is an idiot.

Edited January 19, 2012 by LeazesMag

[JawD 99]

Bottom line.

 

We didnt give a fuck that FFS was overspending in the past because we were doing well on the pitch. People only started to question when the wheels were coming off (last couple).

 

We're doing well on the pitch now and so long as that continues, I dont give a fuck what buying or selling policy is used. Of course I'll be well fucked off if (when) we sell Ba or Krul etc, but its hard to complain when sitting joint 5th, Should or when we drop below 10th, then we can point the finger and say we knew it would happen etc and why.

 

I agree with you LM, we should be keeping hold of Krul and Ba and Tiote etc if we have any kind of ambition at all. Its obvious. However until selling these players are a detriment to the league position its hard to argue?

[Park Life 71]

How sick to Liv supporters feel now?

[donaldstott 0]

There is no reason whatsoever that N'Zogbia, Bassong, Enrique, Nolan, Barton and even Carroll despite the fee, given what we have spent since he left, could not all still have been here, and we would have had a much bigger and stronger squad of players.

 

Zog - Asked to leave

Bassong - Asked to leave

Enrique - Was running down his contract and wanted to leave

Nolan - Wanted more money and a long term deal which he didn't warrant.

Barton - Clearly a disruptive influence and slated his boss

Carroll - Asked to leave (allegedly)

 

I'd argue that having six unhappy players in the squad wouldn't help us at all.

 

Success isn't solely about the fees you pay and the contracts you offer. As I said elsewhere I don't think I've ever seen a happier group of players since 93-95.

 

As has been stated elsewhere, the scouting of player has improved to incorporate 'off the field' and that's been an undoubted success.

[LeazesMag 0]

Zog - Asked to leave

Bassong - Asked to leave

Enrique - Was running down his contract and wanted to leave

Nolan - Wanted more money and a long term deal which he didn't warrant.

Barton - Clearly a disruptive influence and slated his boss

Carroll - Asked to leave (allegedly)

 

I'd argue that having six unhappy players in the squad wouldn't help us at all.

 

Success isn't solely about the fees you pay and the contracts you offer. As I said elsewhere I don't think I've ever seen a happier group of players since 93-95.

 

As has been stated elsewhere, the scouting of player has improved to incorporate 'off the field' and that's been an undoubted success.

 

sigh.

 

You miss the ENTIRE point.

 

You are also stating you have never seen a happier group of players, then say that SIX have asked to leave....4 within the last year. How many asked to leave between 1999 and 2005 ? How many even asked to leave under Souness and Roeder, and why ?

 

dear dear me.

 

Why is there an influx of posters, posting the same sort of crap that people used to post on NO ?

Edited January 20, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Tom 14011]

How many asked to leave between 1999 and 2005 ? How many even asked to leave under Souness and Roeder, and why ?

 

Not many I imagine. Because they were getting paid far beyond their worth.

[LeazesMag 0]

Not many I imagine. Because they were getting paid far beyond their worth.

 

european football............looked after by the club..........prospects of success because the club backed their managers........???

 

I would say that, finishing in high league positions, and playing in the Champions League etc etc is indicative of a happy dressing room. Some may disagree, but if anyone thinks you do that without harmony behind the scenes then they are an idiot. Anyway, its quality that counts, until the current regime gets anywhere near the old one, ask yourself a question ..... what would you rather have, the team playing in these competitions or a "happy [speculation only at the moment, 4 players asking to leave in the past year speaks for itself] dressing room" ?

 

This "disruptive influence" is straight out of the bollocks that was said about Bellamy, Tom. He was badly missed, and the vast majority of people latched onto the same sort of delusion regarding Souness and his sales and signings as they show now regarding Ashley.

[trophyshy 7083]

Has Barton been badly missed?

[Tom 14011]

european football............looked after by the club..........prospects of success because the club backed their managers........???

 

I would say that, finishing in high league positions, and playing in the Champions League etc etc is indicative of a happy dressing room. Some may disagree, but if anyone thinks you do that without harmony behind the scenes then they are an idiot. Anyway, its quality that counts, until the current regime gets anywhere near the old one, ask yourself a question ..... what would you rather have, the team playing in these competitions or a "happy [speculation only at the moment, 4 players asking to leave in the past year speaks for itself] dressing room" ?

 

This "disruptive influence" is straight out of the bollocks that was said about Bellamy, Tom. He was badly missed, and the vast majority of people latched onto the same sort of delusion regarding Souness and his sales and signings as they show now regarding Ashley.

 

To be honest Leazes I think we need a happy medium between the best of Ashley and the best of Shepherd.

 

Sure Shepherd backed his managers but some of the players brought in were utter shite, expensive shite - no 'real' football clubs can make that mistake over and over.

 

and on the other matter I'd rather have had Bellamy than Souness!

[LeazesMag 0]

Has Barton been badly missed?

 

don't you think the squad/team would be better off if he was still here ?

 

This is how you build a squad mate, you build, improve and sell those who fall below the standards, not sell and replace which is what the club is doing now.

[LeazesMag 0]

To be honest Leazes I think we need a happy medium between the best of Ashley and the best of Shepherd.

 

Sure Shepherd backed his managers but some of the players brought in were utter shite, expensive shite.

 

and on the other matter I'd rather have had Bellamy than Souness!

 

I agree about the need for a balance, there is always a balance and quite often the truth is between 2 extremes, but this talk of happy dressing rooms is just a cliche mate, it's something to hide behind rather than having a top team, its just a consolation because when all is said and done, its a top team that you want, not an average team with a "happy dressing room" because if anything is true of football, its that a winning team is a happy one.

Edited January 20, 2012 by LeazesMag

[Tom 14011]

Aye I'm not taking about a happy dressing room, I suppose my observations were aimed at the regimes being discussed & their policies. Retrospectively a lot of Shepherd signings were opportunistic & expensive, sometimes to do with reputation, Ashley's sins seem be listening to dickheads at the start of the regime and selling a few good players & losing Carroll, not having a clue about the local people etc etc

 

At the moment I'm fairly happy with how we are doing, if I need a kick in the teeth for any delusions then sure as the sun I'll get one, but while we're doing well and picking up players like Cisse I'm going to enjoy it because it doesn't come round often.

[The Fish 10858]

I agree about the need for a balance, there is always a balance and quite often the truth is between 2 extremes, but this talk of happy dressing rooms is just a cliche mate, it's something to hide behind rather than having a top team, its just a consolation because when all is said and done, its a top team that you want, not an average team with a "happy dressing room" because if anything is true of football, its that a winning team is a happy one.

[trophyshy 7083]

don't you think the squad/team would be better off if he was still here ?

 

This is how you build a squad mate, you build, improve and sell those who fall below the standards, not sell and replace which is what the club is doing now.

 

I generally agree with that but in the case of Barton the man is a gobby little shitehawk with violent tendencies. So no, I don't think we'd be better off.

 

Anyway my question was do you think he's been badly missed?

[Monroe Transfer 0]

 

Had to read that again to make sure I wasn't imagining it.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Why has the quoting been limited to one quote? Why not 2 or 3? Now posts like mine above don't make any sense unless you go back a page.

[Kitman 2207]

The question of wages is a complex issue imo. Under the Halls/Shepherd we went for instant success in the first team, so as a rule we went for established players. However it was difficult to attract high quality existing stars to the north east after the Dalglish years when we were steadily going backwards (with the exception of SIr Bobby). So we either needed to pay well over the odds in transfer fees and salary or take a gamble on crocks like Carr and Babayaro or marquee players like Owen and Kluivert no-one else fancied. I imagine there was a general acceptance on the Board's part that we needed to pay over the odds.

 

However, for whatever reason it didn't work and wasn't sustainable in the long term. The current lot seem to be getting it right, the most important thing imo at the moment is the sort of stability we haven't had since SBR, but we also seem to be a lot more canny in terms of the players we go for. I don't mind bargain bin shopping if they're all like Demba Ba.

[sniffer 0]

Unfortunately there are more perches than bas.

[Howay 12496]

don't you think the squad/team would be better off if he was still here ?

 

This is how you build a squad mate, you build, improve and sell those who fall below the standards, not sell and replace which is what the club is doing now.

 

I generally agree with that but in the case of Barton the man is a gobby little shitehawk with violent tendencies. So no, I don't think we'd be better off.

 

Anyway my question was do you think he's been badly missed?

From what I've read recently and his recent twitter rants he'd of been a negative to have for the atmosphere of the team, I agree with Leazes that from an ability standpoint having him in the squad would be good (we'd of not seen Obertan as much for a start) but I feel that the detriment he would have brought to the squad and his one man mission against Ashley and Dekka (whether you agree with his points or not it doesn't do our team much good) were too much of a negative to want him in the side currently.

 

Plus how many players would really want to come to a club where the players led by the heroic Barton and Nolan are having a very public war of words with the Clubs ownership and management.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Howay

[Kitman 2207]

If Obertan didn't have the heart of a hamster, I don't think we'd miss him at all footballing wise. As it is I think he'd strengthen the squad as things stand. However with every fresh tweet acting the twat, I'm glad he's gone.