Protecting your Property

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

 

Edit.

 

IMO anything you do to them, is fair game.

Edited June 24, 2011 by LeazesMag

[Guest alex]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

[Kid Dynamite 6853]

 

its the principle that counts, assuming you are a highly principled person

I could just see where this might be heading. Martin is a 'funny' case for the reasons already mentioned in the thread. I don't have a great deal of sympathy for the lad who died although I'm not of the opinion that a kid his age who no doubt had been influenced by scumbags since a very young age was necessarily deserving of death for what he did either. As a general principal though if you go into someone's house and threaten their family etc. then you can't have too many complaints if anything happens to you.

 

thats very true. And if you run away from armed police ?

Then you're an idiot.

 

Or a scared man being chased by plain clothes men with guns shouting at you in a foreign language?

 

If I was in Italy and 2 blokes pulled guns out and started screaming at me I would probably run away too tbf

[Guest alex]

Even if you go along with the notion Menezes was an idiot I'd argue NOT running away from a shotgun-toting Tony Martin would be dafter again

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

 

IIRC Alex, wasn't there quite a lot of people saying that Tony Martin should have gave these guys a "chance to surrender" [at the time] and that he shouldn't have did what he did though ?

 

In that situation, you are scared to fuck mate, survival instinct and fear take over. You can't take their name, call the police so they can deal with it etc or anything else like that, its a ridiculous concept.

 

More understanding of the victims is needed, and the whole situation. To think someone could burgle you, you do what most people would like to do, [which takes balls too] and others actually label you the criminal and lock you up for it. Absurd, as is the condemnation of someone who does it.

[Guest alex]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

 

IIRC Alex, wasn't there quite a lot of people saying that Tony Martin should have gave these guys a "chance to surrender" [at the time] and that he shouldn't have did what he did though ?

 

In that situation, you are scared to fuck mate, survival instinct and fear take over. You can't take their name, call the police so they can deal with it etc or anything else like that, its a ridiculous concept.

 

More understanding of the victims is needed, and the whole situation. To think someone could burgle you, you do what most people would like to do, [which takes balls too] and others actually label you the criminal and lock you up for it. Absurd, as is the condemnation of someone who does it.

What's that got to with what I said though?

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

 

IIRC Alex, wasn't there quite a lot of people saying that Tony Martin should have gave these guys a "chance to surrender" [at the time] and that he shouldn't have did what he did though ?

 

In that situation, you are scared to fuck mate, survival instinct and fear take over. You can't take their name, call the police so they can deal with it etc or anything else like that, its a ridiculous concept.

 

More understanding of the victims is needed, and the whole situation. To think someone could burgle you, you do what most people would like to do, [which takes balls too] and others actually label you the criminal and lock you up for it. Absurd, as is the condemnation of someone who does it.

What's that got to with what I said though?

 

I said I accepted mentioning the Brazilian was stretching it a bit too far. My point is that when others do it we hear idealistic garbage but when you yourself are in the situation, you realise it is not what it seems from the outside looking in.

Edited June 24, 2011 by LeazesMag

[NJS 4270]

or in fact to go one step further thought Jean Charles de Menezes should have also been asked the same thing ?

 

He didn't run.

 

He didn't vault the barriers.

 

He wasn't wearing a thick coat.

 

All police lies.

Edited June 24, 2011 by NJS

[Guest alex]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

 

IIRC Alex, wasn't there quite a lot of people saying that Tony Martin should have gave these guys a "chance to surrender" [at the time] and that he shouldn't have did what he did though ?

 

In that situation, you are scared to fuck mate, survival instinct and fear take over. You can't take their name, call the police so they can deal with it etc or anything else like that, its a ridiculous concept.

 

More understanding of the victims is needed, and the whole situation. To think someone could burgle you, you do what most people would like to do, [which takes balls too] and others actually label you the criminal and lock you up for it. Absurd, as is the condemnation of someone who does it.

What's that got to with what I said though?

 

I said I accepted mentioning the Brazilian was stretching it a bit too far. My point is that when others do it we hear idealistic garbage but when you yourself are in the situation, you realise it is not what it seems from the outside looking in.

I'm never really sure what to say to you when you're in this sort of mindset tbh. From what I can garner, the views of just about everyone in this thread would be in line with yours, i.e. you're perfectly within your rights to defend your family / self / property. In lieu of people willing to disagree with you you seem to have invented a group of people who don't hold that view. Good luck finding them / arguing with them etc.

[NJS 4270]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

[Guest alex]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

That's why it's a 'funny' case and not within the realms of the norm re: this debate. What he did was largely indefensible though imo. Incidentally it was the 20th anniversary of the death of that planning officer recently. If it was now they'd have had a SWAT team out as soon as he whipped his gun out.

[LeazesMag 0]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

 

and ?

 

So what ?

 

They shouldn't have burgled him.

 

For all he knew, THEY might have had a gun, knife or killed him.

 

Tough shit.

[LeazesMag 0]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

Surely there are people hypothetically saying it's ok for themselves to do it when confronted with an intruder and the most logical thing to infer from that would be that they also think it's ok for others to the same in a similar situation. Or am I missing something?

 

IIRC Alex, wasn't there quite a lot of people saying that Tony Martin should have gave these guys a "chance to surrender" [at the time] and that he shouldn't have did what he did though ?

 

In that situation, you are scared to fuck mate, survival instinct and fear take over. You can't take their name, call the police so they can deal with it etc or anything else like that, its a ridiculous concept.

 

More understanding of the victims is needed, and the whole situation. To think someone could burgle you, you do what most people would like to do, [which takes balls too] and others actually label you the criminal and lock you up for it. Absurd, as is the condemnation of someone who does it.

What's that got to with what I said though?

 

I said I accepted mentioning the Brazilian was stretching it a bit too far. My point is that when others do it we hear idealistic garbage but when you yourself are in the situation, you realise it is not what it seems from the outside looking in.

I'm never really sure what to say to you when you're in this sort of mindset tbh. From what I can garner, the views of just about everyone in this thread would be in line with yours, i.e. you're perfectly within your rights to defend your family / self / property. In lieu of people willing to disagree with you you seem to have invented a group of people who don't hold that view. Good luck finding them / arguing with them etc.

 

you seem a bit "pikey" here

 

What people are saying, is exactly what I agree with, but it doesn't seem to be the normal "mode" for some people on here, that's all.

 

What Tony Martin did takes balls, as well as the fear etc which actually takes over and "makes" you do it [if that is the right word].

[Mac-Toon 1]

Leazes, what exactly are you saying about that poor Brazilian bloke who was shot 9 times in the head?

 

ok ok.....let's go back to Tony Martin and the actual thread. Maybe it is stretching the point.

 

I just think some of those who are saying they would hammer an intruder etc etc would actually take the opposite view if it was someone else other than themselves being burgled.

 

Ho hum.

I think everyone's in agreement that it's fair game if someone breaks into your house.

 

I wouldn't even think about ringing the police first. Although in fairness, who knows until it actually happens.

[Toonpack 8753]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

 

 

Good

 

Break into someone's house, all bets are off IMO. All this if you put barbed wire on your fence without a sign and someone gets cut you can be sued malarkey, is nonsense.

[LeazesMag 0]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

 

 

Good

 

Break into someone's house, all bets are off IMO. All this if you put barbed wire on your fence without a sign and someone gets cut you can be sued malarkey, is nonsense.

 

well, we agree on something anyway.

[NJS 4270]

I can understand Martin's frustration of Pikey cunts trying to rob his house but the facts are he staked them out and sat with a shotgun waiting for them.

 

He shot the bloke when he'd ran away, tripped and was lying there - he shot him in the back.

 

 

Good

 

Break into someone's house, all bets are off IMO. All this if you put barbed wire on your fence without a sign and someone gets cut you can be sued malarkey, is nonsense.

 

That encourages the American pov though where everyone has a gun under their pillow. I think burglars are scum and deserve the full weight of the law but I don't think they deserve to die. Do you consider burglary worthy of a death sentence? (irrespectibve of whether you support the death penalty for muder.)

 

There's also the pov that if you have a gun and a "better fighter" burgles you that despite being armed you run the risk they'll grab the gun and kill you.

[sniffer 0]

If you believe every American has a gun under their pillow then you probably are still putting a tooth under yours.

[NJS 4270]

If you believe every American has a gun under their pillow then you probably are still putting a tooth under yours.

 

I do know that at the time of the Waco seige, there were 3 guns for every citiizen in Texas - obviously Texas is an extreme but still taking the piss.

[Guest alex]

There's more guns than people in Crete iirc. Lower crime rate than America like.

[sniffer 0]

Taking the piss out of what?

[NJS 4270]

Taking the piss out of what?

 

A sensible, semi-civilised ratio?

 

I know other countries like Canada have similar "availability" without that many Columbines so it isn't that simple but I'd rather live in a country where guns are seen as extemely rare commodities.

 

If you want to quote the US constitution I think its pretty clear the intent is twisted - "as part of an organised milltia" is the prase that's always left off - the intention was to allow citizens to oppose an armed government tyranny.

[luckyluke 2]

Am I alone in that I'd probably hide in a cupboard?

 

Choice between safety, keeping hold of your stuff and pride I guess. I always take my car keys, wallet, phone with me upstairs when I go to bed, but someone once told me that they deliberately left the keys downstairs so that if a burglar did break in they'd grab them and leave and she wouldn't be caught up in it. Makes sense.

 

aye i know plenty of people who do that tbh so they don't come up stairs looking, don't really know what you'd do till it happens, know a lad who heard people breaking into his car, said before he knew what he was doing he was outside in his boxers trailing one of them out of the seat, other lad came up behind him tried stab him with a screwdriver

 

LL do you do full contact sparring in your martial arts training?

 

If you could see 2/3 guys breaking into your car outside would you run out to confront them? I'd start shouting out the window that I'm calling the police etc. Fuck getting into a fight, I don't want brain damage or catheter bags for the rest of my life.

 

Yes, and I honestly don't know. I think what you say is entirely the right thing to do. Like I said, I've been broken into a couple of times, but I got the stuff back eventually, you don't back a kidney/cognitive function/ability to breathe/etc back on insurance though.

[ewerk 29577]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13957587

[Tom 14002]

Knives out...