Guest alex Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Btw, I'll qualify my previous comment to avoid a tedious 'you said', 'he said'. CT was talking about continual improvement to the squad (seeing as it was said in relation to getting us into the top four). I used the word 'decent' in relation to squad improvement. I thought that would be obvious to all and sundry but there's always one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7492 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 So, despite Arsenal's squad being very frugally assembled they still spent in excess of £43M more than Newcastle did. A spend of +£43Mill is hardly frugal, they support it by buying low and selling high and by making profits. That's the point though isn't it. If they've apparently spent less than us over the period in which you would normally assemble a side then why is the value of their side so vastly in excess of ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It can be argued that Ashley has done well to control spending and have us where we were in the league when he took over. And that he's done well to transfer all the debts to himself interest free, so we aren't throwing money away. There's no argument to support the suggestion that "the finances are immesaurably better" right now though, when Ashley has still only been able to add to the overall debt, decrease overall income and is yet to break even in any season after he's been here 4 years. I thought the financial information released in around March had us down as breaking even this year and moving into profit next year? How could the books for last year have us breaking even this year? If it said anything about this year, then it was a forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22176 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Some would say the last two were exceptionally good. Last summer brought us Tiote and Ben Arfa while most agreed the January business was very shrewd leaving us in this strong position to rebuild that we are now in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Aye, and that's the thing. To assume it will (or even err towards the view it will) is fanciful. Hopefully it will but you'd be off your head to see it as already having taken full effect or likely to continue. Additionally, in my view, the Ashley model absolutely relies on the incumbent manager being a 100% 'yes man'. Which restricts your field of good calibre managers considerably (if we're discussing continual progress) Yep, thats the big road block even if everything else goes right. That said and as Chelsea have shown, there are lots of decent managers out there prepared to work without full control. well, most managers would be happy for his owner to buy the likes of Essien, Drogba, Cech, Torres etc behind his back Tell you what CT, if your man buys players like that, rather than James Perch, I'll stop criticising him OK ? Edited June 13, 2011 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I can almost read CT's thoughts here. Considering another foray into wummery but still nursing the bruises to his ego following recent ill-fated skirmishes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Aye, and that's the thing. To assume it will (or even err towards the view it will) is fanciful. Hopefully it will but you'd be off your head to see it as already having taken full effect or likely to continue. Additionally, in my view, the Ashley model absolutely relies on the incumbent manager being a 100% 'yes man'. Which restricts your field of good calibre managers considerably (if we're discussing continual progress) Yep, thats the big road block even if everything else goes right. That said and as Chelsea have shown, there are lots of decent managers out there prepared to work without full control. well, most managers would be happy for his owner to buy the likes of Essien, Drogba, Cech, Torres etc behind his back Tell you what CT, if your man buys players like that, rather than James Perch, I'll stop criticising him OK ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It can be argued that Ashley has done well to control spending and have us where we were in the league when he took over. And that he's done well to transfer all the debts to himself interest free, so we aren't throwing money away. There's no argument to support the suggestion that "the finances are immesaurably better" right now though, when Ashley has still only been able to add to the overall debt, decrease overall income and is yet to break even in any season after he's been here 4 years. I thought the financial information released in around March had us down as breaking even this year and moving into profit next year? How could the books for last year have us breaking even this year? If it said anything about this year, then it was a forecast. Which is basically what Im saying. The forecast in March (I think) had us down to break even for the season just finished and to make profit next season. Im truly shocked you dont have this at your fingertips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Some would say the last two were exceptionally good. Last summer brought us Tiote and Ben Arfa while most agreed the January business was very shrewd leaving us in this strong position to rebuild that we are now in. I think the majority agreed that the Carroll money was to good to refuse. Theres a poll by Stevie on it. That deal has left us in a very strong position this window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It can be argued that Ashley has done well to control spending and have us where we were in the league when he took over. And that he's done well to transfer all the debts to himself interest free, so we aren't throwing money away. There's no argument to support the suggestion that "the finances are immesaurably better" right now though, when Ashley has still only been able to add to the overall debt, decrease overall income and is yet to break even in any season after he's been here 4 years. I thought the financial information released in around March had us down as breaking even this year and moving into profit next year? How could the books for last year have us breaking even this year? If it said anything about this year, then it was a forecast. Which is basically what Im saying. The forecast in March (I think) had us down to break even for the season just finished and to make profit next season. Im truly shocked you dont have this at your fingertips. Yeah, you're predicting what will happen next year. I'm talking about what has actually happened because none of us know what will happen. Relegation probably wouldn't help with future forecasts, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I can almost read CT's thoughts here. Considering another foray into wummery but still nursing the bruises to his ego following recent ill-fated skirmishes Some of us just like and are capable of discussing things like this. I appreciate your main presence here these days is sniping, but I suppose whatever floats your boat. Now run along and pull some girls hair in the office and leave us men to chew the fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Some would say the last two were exceptionally good. Last summer brought us Tiote and Ben Arfa while most agreed the January business was very shrewd leaving us in this strong position to rebuild that we are now in. I think the majority agreed that the Carroll money was to good to refuse. Theres a poll by Stevie on it. That deal has left us in a very strong position this window. So it was 'good' in the respect a lot of money came in for a player. Fair enough. That's not really what was being discussed though, i.e. the continual squad improvement, or lack of it, is it? Not sure it was 'shrewd' by the club either. Lucky more like. But that's a different (done to death) argument anyway. So, I'd like to see evidence of this continual squad improvement, because I don't see any. Edited June 13, 2011 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Some would say the last two were exceptionally good. Last summer brought us Tiote and Ben Arfa while most agreed the January business was very shrewd leaving us in this strong position to rebuild that we are now in. I think the majority agreed that the Carroll money was to good to refuse. Theres a poll by Stevie on it. That deal has left us in a very strong position this window. But it didn't leave us in a strong position last window, thats the point And it remains to be seen whether that strong position for this window will be taken advantage of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It can be argued that Ashley has done well to control spending and have us where we were in the league when he took over. And that he's done well to transfer all the debts to himself interest free, so we aren't throwing money away. There's no argument to support the suggestion that "the finances are immesaurably better" right now though, when Ashley has still only been able to add to the overall debt, decrease overall income and is yet to break even in any season after he's been here 4 years. I thought the financial information released in around March had us down as breaking even this year and moving into profit next year? How could the books for last year have us breaking even this year? If it said anything about this year, then it was a forecast. Which is basically what Im saying. The forecast in March (I think) had us down to break even for the season just finished and to make profit next season. Im truly shocked you dont have this at your fingertips. Yeah, you're predicting what will happen next year. I'm talking about what has actually happened because none of us know what will happen. Relegation probably wouldn't help with future forecasts, for example. Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Why does this feel like it's going to be a loooooooooooong window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. And how does that negate anything I've said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Given we've only had one decent transfer window under Ashley I'm not sure there's much evidence to suggest that continual improvement is taking place. Some would say the last two were exceptionally good. Last summer brought us Tiote and Ben Arfa while most agreed the January business was very shrewd leaving us in this strong position to rebuild that we are now in. I think the majority agreed that the Carroll money was to good to refuse. Theres a poll by Stevie on it. That deal has left us in a very strong position this window. But it didn't leave us in a strong position last window, thats the point And it remains to be seen whether that strong position for this window will be taken advantage of Agreed, but it was a gamble that paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. And how does that negate anything I've said? You were saying he's yet to break even and I was just giving you a gentle reminder that they did forecast in March (I think) that they were on course to break even for the season just finished. In case you had forgotten Thought it might cheer you up on your birthday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Agreed, but it was a gamble that paid off. Some of us have only recently finished celebrating tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Agreed, but it was a gamble that paid off. Some of us have only recently finished celebrating tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I wouldn't see it as being paid off yet, in 12 month time i think we'll see the truer extent of the Carroll deal and whether it was good or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9973 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 It can be argued that Ashley has done well to control spending and have us where we were in the league when he took over. And that he's done well to transfer all the debts to himself interest free, so we aren't throwing money away. There's no argument to support the suggestion that "the finances are immesaurably better" right now though, when Ashley has still only been able to add to the overall debt, decrease overall income and is yet to break even in any season after he's been here 4 years. Of course there is. What would be better, £150 Mill owed to banks or owed to the owner ?? As for the break even/profit "failure", we've done that once in a decade (by £600K aided by a transfer profit of £13.4Mill in 2005) I would suggest getting from a position of £20-£30Mill losses year on year to break/even profit in 4 years is not to be sniffed at tbh and btw overall income this year will likely be a record high for the club, as it was in 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. And how does that negate anything I've said? You were saying he's yet to break even and I was just giving you a gentle reminder that they did forecast in March (I think) that they were on course to break even for the season just finished. In case you had forgotten Thought it might cheer you up on your birthday I hadn't fporgotten at all. Of course, breaking even won't get the finances looking immeasurably better either. It'll just stop the rot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4839 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. And how does that negate anything I've said? You were saying he's yet to break even and I was just giving you a gentle reminder that they did forecast in March (I think) that they were on course to break even for the season just finished. In case you had forgotten Thought it might cheer you up on your birthday I hadn't fporgotten at all. Of course, breaking even won't get the finances looking immeasurably better either. It'll just stop the rot. Which as TP illustrates above is progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9973 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Im predicting nothing Im reminding you of what (I think) the financial document predicted would happen this year. As relegation has been avoided, it shouldnt really alter that forecast. And how does that negate anything I've said? You were saying he's yet to break even and I was just giving you a gentle reminder that they did forecast in March (I think) that they were on course to break even for the season just finished. In case you had forgotten Thought it might cheer you up on your birthday I hadn't fporgotten at all. Of course, breaking even won't get the finances looking immeasurably better either. It'll just stop the rot. Stopping the rot = immeasurably better, surely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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