Sven great again? Back for England?

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

DrGloom because I think he has an excellent track record. I think guiding England to 3 quarter-finals is an excellent track record. Yes, he was knocked out in all of them, I'm not blind to that fact, but I personally would give him the benefit of the doubt that those eliminations were largely due to misfortune, particularly the 2 penalty shoot-outs.

 

I also think his players were overrated in that so-called Golden generation. The best player was never on the pitch when they were eliminated (Rooney).

 

Owen wasn't the player he had been.

 

Joe Cole was excellent, that I'll admit, but Beckham was used to the best of his abilities by Sven and either scored or made, loads of goals.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[ChezGiven 0]

ChezGiven because I think he has an excellent track record. I think guiding England to 3 quarter-finals is an excellent track record. Yes, he was knocked out in all of them, I'm not blind to that fact, but I personally would give him the benefit of the doubt that those eliminations were largely due to misfortune, particularly the 2 penalty shoot-outs.

Search the forum for threads started by accadacca, he was castigated as a mackem wum but was in fact a realist and a visionary.

 

I didnt agree with your happiness thread but i found it interesting and if history judges Sven as harshly as the media did at the time, i'll be surprised. I dont think the problems in English football can be condensed down into just a discussion of the manager but i find it very easy to agree to a revision of Sven's performances given what has followed.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

ChezGiven because I think he has an excellent track record. I think guiding England to 3 quarter-finals is an excellent track record. Yes, he was knocked out in all of them, I'm not blind to that fact, but I personally would give him the benefit of the doubt that those eliminations were largely due to misfortune, particularly the 2 penalty shoot-outs.

Search the forum for threads started by accadacca, he was castigated as a mackem wum but was in fact a realist and a visionary.

 

I didnt agree with your happiness thread but i found it interesting and if history judges Sven as harshly as the media did at the time, i'll be surprised. I dont think the problems in English football can be condensed down into just a discussion of the manager but i find it very easy to agree to a revision of Sven's performances given what has followed.

That was a response to Dr. Gloom, I corrected it afterwards.

And predictably I agree with what you say here.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.

 

When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

[Guest alex]

2002 was Sven's / England big chance imo. I happen to think he blew it and wasn't the same force as a manager after that. That tournament was wide open. We'd have lost to Germany in the final like. Nailed on.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

2002 was Sven's / England big chance imo. I happen to think he blew it and wasn't the same force as a manager after that. That tournament was wide open. We'd have lost to Germany in the final like. Nailed on.

No, I can't see how that can be nailed on. Germany didn't have a very hard route to the final that year, and many thought it was one of the poorest ever finalists.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[Guest alex]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

Is it really a popular myth? I knew that and everyone did at the time since it was all over the media that 2nd place would take us into a play-off with the Ukraine and Shevchenko in his pomp. I think you make fair points about Sven, as I've said. However labouring the point when he has as much chance of getting the England job again as Keegan has is a bit tedious. As are comments like the bit in bold to try and show how clever you are.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

Is it really a popular myth? I knew that and everyone did at the time since it was all over the media that 2nd place would take us into a play-off with the Ukraine and Shevchenko in his pomp. I think you make fair points about Sven, as I've said. However labouring the point when he has as much chance of getting the England job again as Keegan has is a bit tedious. As are comments like the bit in bold to try and show how clever you are.

Well, childish accusations about me trying to show how clever I am, without proof (and false by the way) don't do you any credit, in my view.

 

But yes, I've hear many people say that we were close to being knocked out until Beckham 'saved' Sven. Sven came in when England was in trouble, and turned things around. Greece at Old Trafford was a little warning from Greece about what would happen 3 years later.

[Guest alex]

2002 was Sven's / England big chance imo. I happen to think he blew it and wasn't the same force as a manager after that. That tournament was wide open. We'd have lost to Germany in the final like. Nailed on.

No, I can't see how that can be nailed on. Germany didn't have a very hard route to the final that year, and many thought it was one of the poorest ever finalists.

It was tongue-in-cheek. Obviously no degree of certainty can be prescribed to a hypothetical situation which didn't occur anyway, Poindexter.

[Dr Gloom 21869]

DrGloom because I think he has an excellent track record. I think guiding England to 3 quarter-finals is an excellent track record. Yes, he was knocked out in all of them, I'm not blind to that fact, but I personally would give him the benefit of the doubt that those eliminations were largely due to misfortune, particularly the 2 penalty shoot-outs.

 

I also think his players were overrated in that so-called Golden generation. The best player was never on the pitch when they were eliminated (Rooney).

 

Owen wasn't the player he had been.

 

Joe Cole was excellent, that I'll admit, but Beckham was used to the best of his abilities by Sven and either scored or made, loads of goals.

 

that's like saying roeder had an excellent track record for us because he guided us to 7th. 7th isn't an excellent finish for newcastle, it's the minimum we should aspire to. same as a quarter final exit from a major tournament for england - it isn't excellent; it's par, slightly below par even when you consider sven had all of those players (golden generation or not) in their prime. if he'd gotten us to a final, or semi final even, while getting the players (who all excelled for their clubs at the time) to play convincingly, then i'd agree. yes, he got us to quarter finals, but you can hardly say that we played brilliant football, or that we really deserved to go further. we only qualified for one of those tournaments don't forget thanks to a last minute goal from beckham that saved point against a very mediocre greece side. it was rarely convincing; the football was often too defensive, too direct and laboured.

 

the only really good results i can recall from his reign was the demolition of germany, though to be fair that was a very poor germany side by recent standards, and the gritty 1-0 win over the argies in japan.

[Guest alex]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

Is it really a popular myth? I knew that and everyone did at the time since it was all over the media that 2nd place would take us into a play-off with the Ukraine and Shevchenko in his pomp. I think you make fair points about Sven, as I've said. However labouring the point when he has as much chance of getting the England job again as Keegan has is a bit tedious. As are comments like the bit in bold to try and show how clever you are.

Well, childish accusations about me trying to show how clever I am, without proof (and false by the way) don't do you any credit, in my view.

 

But yes, I've hear many people say that we were close to being knocked out until Beckham 'saved' Sven. Sven came in when England was in trouble, and turned things around. Greece at Old Trafford was a little warning from Greece about what would happen 3 years later.

Don't listen to those voices, Nick. Especially when they tell you to do bad things.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

I'll try not to.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Nick-Kielce-Poland

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

Is it really a popular myth? I knew that and everyone did at the time since it was all over the media that 2nd place would take us into a play-off with the Ukraine and Shevchenko in his pomp. I think you make fair points about Sven, as I've said. However labouring the point when he has as much chance of getting the England job again as Keegan has is a bit tedious. As are comments like the bit in bold to try and show how clever you are.

Well, childish accusations about me trying to show how clever I am, without proof (and false by the way) don't do you any credit, in my view.

 

But yes, I've heard many people say that we were close to being knocked out until Beckham 'saved' Sven. Sven came in when England was in trouble, and turned things around. Greece at Old Trafford was a little warning from Greece about what would happen 3 years later.

[Guest alex]

By the way, it is a popular myth that we would have been knocked out if it hadn't been for Beckham's free-kick against Greece. We would have finished 2nd and had to go through the play-offs like Germany had to.When Sven arrived we were struggling in that group, and Sven ended up getting us to the top spot, although as I've said, had Beckham's free-kick not gone in, we would have got a chance in the play-offs.

 

England lost only 1 qualifier in Sven's 6-year stint, against Northern Ireland.

Is it really a popular myth? I knew that and everyone did at the time since it was all over the media that 2nd place would take us into a play-off with the Ukraine and Shevchenko in his pomp. I think you make fair points about Sven, as I've said. However labouring the point when he has as much chance of getting the England job again as Keegan has is a bit tedious. As are comments like the bit in bold to try and show how clever you are.

Well, childish accusations about me trying to show how clever I am, without proof (and false by the way) don't do you any credit, in my view.

 

But yes, I've heard many people say that we were close to being knocked out until Beckham 'saved' Sven. Sven came in when England was in trouble, and turned things around. Greece at Old Trafford was a little warning from Greece about what would happen 3 years later.

I heard you the first time. You feeling ok?

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

Haha I wasn't sure.

Got to go now to work (yes, awful isn't it) but i'll be back

[Guest alex]

It's like village of the quadraspazzed on here today.

[Howmanheyman 32923]

I thought England were very, very average under Sven. We've been average under a few managers. Maybe England are just average?

 

Anyway, blowing the trumpet for Sven and asking how people feel about a return by Sven to the England job is a bit pointless and on top of other posts you've started, is the reason you've had a bit of stick.

[Billy Castell 0]

Sven???!!! Sod off with that idea. Too expensive, about as loyal as a cat, and has become a journeyman manager picking up short term jobs for big wages. I'm not one for only having English managers, especially since there are none good enough. Pearce is simply not up to it, Redknapp cannot do his wheeler dealer tricks with the squad and will walk out and leave the FA somehow bankrupt, and then there's Big Sam...........

 

There are only 3 names off the top of my head who'd do better than Capello with the current players-Hiddink, Mourinho or Loew. That's not to say that Capello has been brilliant.

 

We need to stop cunting about, get that Burton Academy thing built, tighten up the coaching badges so you can't just walk into a managerial/Assistant job as soon as you state your intentions to coach.

[Dr Gloom 21869]

Sven???!!! Sod off with that idea. Too expensive, about as loyal as a cat, and has become a journeyman manager picking up short term jobs for big wages. I'm not one for only having English managers, especially since there are none good enough. Pearce is simply not up to it, Redknapp cannot do his wheeler dealer tricks with the squad and will walk out and leave the FA somehow bankrupt, and then there's Big Sam...........

 

There are only 3 names off the top of my head who'd do better than Capello with the current players-Hiddink, Mourinho or Loew. That's not to say that Capello has been brilliant.

 

We need to stop cunting about, get that Burton Academy thing built, tighten up the coaching badges so you can't just walk into a managerial/Assistant job as soon as you state your intentions to coach.

 

mourinho would be a good shout. we'd play horrible defensive football but at least we'd be hard to break down and would probably get to the business end of tournaments. he'd lift the pressure and the weight of expectation off the players' minds by dominating press conferences and making it all about him plus they'd all respect him. can't see why he'd want the job though. he's got enough millions. more likely to stay in club management before eventually taking the portugal job.

[Guest alex]

If we could get anyone I'd get Hiddink. Mourinho claims he nearly took the job when Capello got it btw.

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

I thought England were very, very average under Sven. We've been average under a few managers. Maybe England are just average?

 

Anyway, blowing the trumpet for Sven and asking how people feel about a return by Sven to the England job is a bit pointless and on top of other posts you've started, is the reason you've had a bit of stick.

Yes, stick, which in the form of, what I consider to be, moronic postings.

[LeazesMag 0]

DrGloom because I think he has an excellent track record. I think guiding England to 3 quarter-finals is an excellent track record. Yes, he was knocked out in all of them, I'm not blind to that fact, but I personally would give him the benefit of the doubt that those eliminations were largely due to misfortune, particularly the 2 penalty shoot-outs.

 

I also think his players were overrated in that so-called Golden generation. The best player was never on the pitch when they were eliminated (Rooney).

 

Owen wasn't the player he had been.

 

Joe Cole was excellent, that I'll admit, but Beckham was used to the best of his abilities by Sven and either scored or made, loads of goals.

 

that's like saying roeder had an excellent track record for us because he guided us to 7th. 7th isn't an excellent finish for newcastle, it's the minimum we should aspire to. same as a quarter final exit from a major tournament for england - it isn't excellent; it's par, slightly below par even when you consider sven had all of those players (golden generation or not) in their prime. if he'd gotten us to a final, or semi final even, while getting the players (who all excelled for their clubs at the time) to play convincingly, then i'd agree. yes, he got us to quarter finals, but you can hardly say that we played brilliant football, or that we really deserved to go further. we only qualified for one of those tournaments don't forget thanks to a last minute goal from beckham that saved point against a very mediocre greece side. it was rarely convincing; the football was often too defensive, too direct and laboured.

 

the only really good results i can recall from his reign was the demolition of germany, though to be fair that was a very poor germany side by recent standards, and the gritty 1-0 win over the argies in japan.

 

 

quite why you have blocked me is mystifying, as you are now saying what I've been telling you for years.

[LeazesMag 0]

the thing about Sven, is they ie the media and the public in general, got what they wanted. After Keegan they wanted someone "tactically astute" [ie defensive minded] and someone who had "won something because Keegan hadn't" ie more tactically astute.

 

Then he didn't do any better at all. But they slated him anyway, after they welcomed him with open arms.

 

What does THAT remind you of?

 

Isn't hindsight and the ability not to admit you were spouting bollocks wonderful ?

 

Even the best manager would struggle with England, to achieve the expectation, because we just don't have enough top players at that level, we haven't for a long time and its really that simple.

[DEADMAN 0]

how many more managers are england gonna have before success is brought i think none cause those england players dont give a toss about the england shirt as long as they get paid 100s of thousands at there clubs

[Irrelevant Nick KP 0]

DrGloom, I don't agree that Sven had better players than other managers.

Rooney can be discounted since he was never on the pitch when England were eliminated under Sven.

Owen was never the player he was pre-2002.

Joe Cole and Steven Gerrard were world-class, while Beckham was being demanded off the pitch, while Sven was sticking by him. And Becks was very productive under Sven, assisting and scoring frequently.

 

I think the current English group of players is better than the one Sven had at his disposal.

 

And remember, Rooney can be discounted completely from Sven's time, since England were never eliminated with him on the pitch; 2004 (metatarsel dragged him off in quarter-final). 2006, Red carded in quarter-final.