Kevin Nolan signs for West Ham United

[ChezGiven 0]

They cant get rid of Barton if he doesnt want to go. They can accept an offer but that means fuck all, the player just doesnt bother to speak to the club who makes the offer.

 

I think the perspective of who holds the power tends to focus on the club when in reality its the players and their agents.

 

Unless Pardew tells him he cant actually play him or something because Ashely says so, then Barton will stay. In fact even in these circumstances he could just say fuck off, as Smith is doing.

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Brainwashed madness mate. The club did show loyalty by offering them both improved longer term deals which THEY turned down.

 

Bit of perspective wouldnt go amiss.

 

You seem to have ignored my point about the club trying to sell Barton behind his back.

 

Not ignored, just dont recall it.

[Guest alex]

What worries me about this sale is it might be another sign that Ashley thinks he's cracked this running a football club malarky just because it's gone relatively well of late. I.e. sell player A, bring in younger, cheaper model, rinse and repeat in a couple of seasons. It's a risky business selling your best players. I'm torn on this one and would have no problems about it if the transfers were down to someone you could trust (like when KK sold Cole, for example) but we don't even have Pardew calling the shots on who comes in and goes, as his comments about wanting to keep Nolan would suggest. Do you really trust in Fat Mike and Slimey Dekka to know what the fuck they're doing?

[ewerk 30370]

Brainwashed madness mate. The club did show loyalty by offering them both improved longer term deals which THEY turned down.

 

Bit of perspective wouldnt go amiss.

 

You seem to have ignored my point about the club trying to sell Barton behind his back.

 

It doesn't fit in with the point I'm failing to make.

 

FYP

[Kitman 2204]

Rex is in for a shock with Sham, like.

 

Yes, but to tell the truth I was suckered by the scientific bullshit too until we had the misfortune to appoint him. I really feel sorry for Rex and the anti-football stop-em-playing-and-lunk-it-up-to-the-big-lad "tactics" he's got to come. It was hard to watch the toon in those days and that was just sitting through the highlights, God knows what it was like to go to the match. It was painfully apparent he was out of his depth and I honestly thought he would get us relegated, the hippo headed twat.

[Guest alex]

They cant get rid of Barton if he doesnt want to go. They can accept an offer but that means fuck all, the player just doesnt bother to speak to the club who makes the offer.

 

I think the perspective of who holds the power tends to focus on the club when in reality its the players and their agents.

 

Unless Pardew tells him he cant actually play him or something because Ashely says so, then Barton will stay. In fact even in these circumstances he could just say fuck off, as Smith is doing.

Totally different to the Smith situation though. Barton would be able to move on and possibly further his career and would be in demand. Smith would be lucky to command a 20th of what he is currently on. So while it is in Smith's interests to stay it probably isn't in Barton's.

[ChezGiven 0]

What worries me about this sale is it might be another sign that Ashley thinks he's cracked this running a football club malarky just because it's gone relatively well of late. I.e. sell player A, bring in younger, cheaper model, rinse and repeat in a couple of seasons. It's a risky business selling your best players. I'm torn on this one and would have no problems about it if the transfers were down to someone you could trust (like when KK sold Cole, for example) but we don't even have Pardew calling the shots on who comes in and goes, as his comments about wanting to keep Nolan would suggest. Do you really trust in Fat Mike and Slimey Dekka to know what the fuck they're doing?

I dont think you can call Nolan rejecting a contract a decision that FM and SD have taken.

 

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

[nortoon 0]

Wish Nolan would stay, but with our amount of central midfielders now I dont see it as the biggest loss, especially if Pardew is planning to use Ben Arfa behind the striker this year. Dont see the huge financial profit in selling him for 4m when theres 2 years left on his contract though, and he seemed to hold the team together well as a captain. Id rather have Barton if I had to choose between them.

[ChezGiven 0]

They cant get rid of Barton if he doesnt want to go. They can accept an offer but that means fuck all, the player just doesnt bother to speak to the club who makes the offer.

 

I think the perspective of who holds the power tends to focus on the club when in reality its the players and their agents.

 

Unless Pardew tells him he cant actually play him or something because Ashely says so, then Barton will stay. In fact even in these circumstances he could just say fuck off, as Smith is doing.

Totally different to the Smith situation though. Barton would be able to move on and possibly further his career and would be in demand. Smith would be lucky to command a 20th of what he is currently on. So while it is in Smith's interests to stay it probably isn't in Barton's.

True i just meant staying despite knowing you're not particularly welcome. But aye, Barton could get a game for most clubs, Smith might not be good enough for the championship.

[Guest alex]

What worries me about this sale is it might be another sign that Ashley thinks he's cracked this running a football club malarky just because it's gone relatively well of late. I.e. sell player A, bring in younger, cheaper model, rinse and repeat in a couple of seasons. It's a risky business selling your best players. I'm torn on this one and would have no problems about it if the transfers were down to someone you could trust (like when KK sold Cole, for example) but we don't even have Pardew calling the shots on who comes in and goes, as his comments about wanting to keep Nolan would suggest. Do you really trust in Fat Mike and Slimey Dekka to know what the fuck they're doing?

I dont think you can call Nolan rejecting a contract a decision that FM and SD have taken.

 

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

Fair point. It's difficult to assess exactly what's true though. You could say there's evidence beyond merely the Nolan situation to back up what I was saying though.

[OTF 7280]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan. Regardless of the contract offered to him and his reluctance to sign it the club decided to sell him. Just like with Carroll, Nolan can't have talked to any clubs (more accurately other clubs can't have talked to him) prior to getting permission from Newcastle United. The club decided that they wanted to sell him. I don't know about you but if I was getting that sort of message from my employer I wouldn't be too keen to hang around.

[Guest alex]

And you'll only really get the players' sides of the story once they leave. And maybe not even then.

[NJS 4375]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan. Regardless of the contract offered to him and his reluctance to sign it the club decided to sell him. Just like with Carroll, Nolan can't have talked to any clubs (more accurately other clubs can't have talked to him) prior to getting permission from Newcastle United. The club decided that they wanted to sell him. I don't know about you but if I was getting that sort of message from my employer I wouldn't be too keen to hang around.

 

The idea that players wait for permission before talking to clubs is very naive imo - it happens all the time.

 

The point is that once the decision to not sign occurs, both player and club have to do the best thing at that time - and the parasites known as agents start to work their magic.

[ChezGiven 0]

What worries me about this sale is it might be another sign that Ashley thinks he's cracked this running a football club malarky just because it's gone relatively well of late. I.e. sell player A, bring in younger, cheaper model, rinse and repeat in a couple of seasons. It's a risky business selling your best players. I'm torn on this one and would have no problems about it if the transfers were down to someone you could trust (like when KK sold Cole, for example) but we don't even have Pardew calling the shots on who comes in and goes, as his comments about wanting to keep Nolan would suggest. Do you really trust in Fat Mike and Slimey Dekka to know what the fuck they're doing?

I dont think you can call Nolan rejecting a contract a decision that FM and SD have taken.

 

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

Fair point. It's difficult to assess exactly what's true though. You could say there's evidence beyond merely the Nolan situation to back up what I was saying though.

Without doubt but this goes back to the discussion i was having with Peasepud the other day, was Nolan really that furious with being offered a continuation of his current contract at the same price with additional incentives?

 

He obviously thinks he deserves a bonus for his massive contributions, i guess he never paid attention to his consistent 6 out of 10 performance scores across the media and only breaking above that due to goals.

 

The decision being made by SD is not to give in to the demands from the player and agent. In that sense the decision is not to match offers he can get elsewhere and allow a greater degree of risk into the situation. So yes, consistent with their overall behaviour we've seen before.

[OTF 7280]

The idea that players wait for permission before talking to clubs is very naive imo - it happens all the time.

 

The point is that once the decision to not sign occurs, both player and club have to do the best thing at that time - and the parasites known as agents start to work their magic.

 

It might happen all the time but the salient point is that regardless of how much behind the scenes talk takes place the player absolutely cannot leave without the selling club first agreeing terms with the buying one. If that doesn't happen the player stays.

 

Is the suggestion now that Nolan engineered this move for himself after Newcastle wouldn't offer him a 5 year contract?

[ChezGiven 0]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan.

 

How would you know? It is documented by the club, Nolan's agent and the press that he was offered a new contract. That basically is the uncontrevertible truth.

 

Of course a decision has been made to accept the 4.5m offer because Nolan and his agent made a decison (documented everywhere) not to accept the contract.

 

Baffling how people dont understand this process, its not that complicated.

[Kid Dynamite 7009]

Barton no Talksport atm. Says unless a champions league club comes in for him he's not interested in leaving. Says he wanted a long contract as his Mrs is pregnant, he loves the area and wanted to commit himself to the club for a long time

[Christmas Tree 4711]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan. Regardless of the contract offered to him and his reluctance to sign it the club decided to sell him. Just like with Carroll, Nolan can't have talked to any clubs (more accurately other clubs can't have talked to him) prior to getting permission from Newcastle United. The club decided that they wanted to sell him. I don't know about you but if I was getting that sort of message from my employer I wouldn't be too keen to hang around.

 

The idea that players wait for permission before talking to clubs is very naive imo - it happens all the time.

 

The point is that once the decision to not sign occurs, both player and club have to do the best thing at that time - and the parasites known as agents start to work their magic.

 

Hence why we were told on this forum two weeks ago by an ITK, that Nolan was off to Fulham.

[ChezGiven 0]

The idea that players wait for permission before talking to clubs is very naive imo - it happens all the time.

 

The point is that once the decision to not sign occurs, both player and club have to do the best thing at that time - and the parasites known as agents start to work their magic.

 

It might happen all the time but the salient point is that regardless of how much behind the scenes talk takes place the player absolutely cannot leave without the selling club first agreeing terms with the buying one. If that doesn't happen the player stays.

 

Is the suggestion now that Nolan engineered this move for himself after Newcastle wouldn't offer him a 5 year contract?

 

Thats the regulations which is why there are agents. Nolan's agent can talk to West Ham before Nolan can, therefore when we made him an offer he knows whether to accept or reject it as he has an 'idea' of what he might get elsewhere.

 

Thats how the system works.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Putting aside whether you're on the keep him or sell him fence, the problem with the Nolan transfer and the probable Barton and Enrique transfer is that the catalyst is contract negotiations. It seems whatever game the board are playing is giving the same result; player turns it down and is sold. Dangerous game.

 

The other glaring and scary part of this is the role of Pardew. It really just backs up the theory that he has no control over players in and out.

[Kitman 2204]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan.

 

How would you know? It is documented by the club, Nolan's agent and the press that he was offered a new contract. That basically is the uncontrevertible truth.

 

Of course a decision has been made to accept the 4.5m offer because Nolan and his agent made a decison (documented everywhere) not to accept the contract.

 

Baffling how people dont understand this process, its not that complicated.

 

I guess it depends on whether he was in fact offered a good contract. An alternative scenario is that he's offered a piece of shit and told to take it or leave it.

[OTF 7280]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan.

 

How would you know? It is documented by the club, Nolan's agent and the press that he was offered a new contract. That basically is the uncontrevertible truth.

 

Of course a decision has been made to accept the 4.5m offer because Nolan and his agent made a decison (documented everywhere) not to accept the contract.

 

Baffling how people dont understand this process, its not that complicated.

 

What exactly is it that I don't understand.

 

Nolan was/is contracted to us until 2013? He can get in a strop and demand to be sold until he's blue in the face whilst the club sit there doing nothing and keep him until the contract runs up.

 

It's absurb that you can post the below in another thread when it's virtually the same in reverse.

 

They cant get rid of Barton if he doesnt want to go. They can accept an offer but that means fuck all, the player just doesnt bother to speak to the club who makes the offer.

[JawD 99]

Nolan didnt HAVE to go. We can tell him he wont get a game and he still doesnt HAVE to go. All that shite about ending his career here. I tend not to take much notice of it tbh. Same as Barton now. I'd love him to stay anyway, he doesn't need to come out with the usual sound bites. No different to kissing the badge imo.

 

Personally I think he's went as West Ham offered the length of contract we wouldnt, he'll likely be club captain, it's under Fat Sam again and they are likely to be in the Prem next season.

 

I've nothing against him, he needs to look after his own interest and at his age he needed the longer contract and we didnt want a 33yr old on the books thats hard to shift. Makes sense for both parties apart from one thing. He has been one of our best players (last season) and as much as he didnt HAVE to go, surely we didnt HAVE to sell. Works both ways. you have to assume the club is happy with the m/f options for next season and he didnt picture. I think it's meant to be called progress.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its basically the point i was making elsewhere, the final power and decision making rests with the player. Pardew wants to keep him, club offers perfectly reasonable contract, Player decides to leave.

 

That wasn't the case with Nolan.

 

How would you know? It is documented by the club, Nolan's agent and the press that he was offered a new contract. That basically is the uncontrevertible truth.

 

Of course a decision has been made to accept the 4.5m offer because Nolan and his agent made a decison (documented everywhere) not to accept the contract.

 

Baffling how people dont understand this process, its not that complicated.

 

What exactly is it that I don't understand.

 

Nolan was/is contracted to us until 2013? He can get in a strop and demand to be sold until he's blue in the face whilst the club sit there doing nothing and keep him until the contract runs up.

 

It's absurb that you can post the below in another thread when it's virtually the same in reverse.

 

They cant get rid of Barton if he doesnt want to go. They can accept an offer but that means fuck all, the player just doesnt bother to speak to the club who makes the offer.

No its not, they are both consistent with the idea that the player decides to stay or leave / accept or reject an offer. The club sold Nolan because he decided not to accept the new contract. The club cant sell Barton if he decides to play out his contract.

 

100% consistent.

[Gemmill 44498]

Putting aside whether you're on the keep him or sell him fence, the problem with the Nolan transfer and the probable Barton and Enrique transfer is that the catalyst is contract negotiations. It seems whatever game the board are playing is giving the same result; player turns it down and is sold. Dangerous game.

 

The other glaring and scary part of this is the role of Pardew. It really just backs up the theory that he has no control over players in and out.

 

Aye these two points pretty much nail it. The fact that whenever they open contract negotiations, they seem to break down has long term implications as well. This will extend to players coming in too, and it means that we can't sign proven quality because we won't pay them what they want. So we're left with signing "unproven quality" and hoping it comes good. Then in the rare event that we do sign a gem, it's back to the drawing board as soon as their contract comes up for renewal and they want an improved deal, talks break down, etc etc.

 

Not the foundations for long term success. Not that that's a big surprise.