peasepud 59 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 To compare the wages and bonuses paid to employees of a normal company (where wages represent normally < 20% of turnover and are split between far more people) to a premiership footballer is daft though. He was rewareded handsomely for his contributions, the wage he received in the championship would have been miles above the market rate and again 'at' the market rate last year. The wages received are so high that they have already built in the reward for his contribution. If he wasnt making significant contributions to the team and winning us points, he would have been massively 'over'paid for the last 2 seasons. He was paid to score goals and be captain of a club whose aim was to survive in the premiership. He performed adequatley by being actually just about worth the money being paid to him. Thats a bit of a rarity in football, a player actually just deserving what he gets paid. He has been paid 3% of the club's revenue as thats the level of performance expected of him. You dont pay someone a huge wage because you expect huge performance and then pay them again when they deliver what you paid them so much for in the first place. Seems obvious to me, dont try and confuse it with normal office life. Im sorry like but thats bollocks. Its nothing to do with "normal office life" or the amounts of money someone is on. Previous performance is how you measure someones worth in the workplace, regardless of industry*. You cannot make decisions on future pay or future employment without looking at past performance. Yes he was handsomely paid for what he did but if he exceeded the expectations then he sees his market worth go up. Whether we pay him that is neither here or there in this discussion as no matter how good a job hes done for us Im not 100% sure I would be happy handing him a long and lucrative contract. Actors are not part of the normal workplace but they are paid contracts based on past performance, if Tom Cruises films had all bombed at the box office do you think he'd command £100m for his next film? would he shite, he'd be playing a barman in some crappy porn shoot for $50 and a suck off from the leading man. I fail to see how you can argue anything other, like I said in the last post you'd sure as hell be taking past performance into account if he'd been shit. You did it with Smith. *time lords not applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You dont pay someone a huge wage because you expect huge performance and then pay them again when they deliver what you paid them so much for in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You dont pay someone a huge wage because you expect huge performance and then pay them again when they deliver what you paid them so much for in the first place. We're not talking about that though, we're on about the renewing of contracts. How can you expect to make decisions on either renewing a contract or getting shot without looking at their performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 "He was paid to score goals and be captain of a club whose aim was to survive in the premiership." That wasn't our aim when we signed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 You dont pay someone a huge wage because you expect huge performance and then pay them again when they deliver what you paid them so much for in the first place. We're not talking about that though, we're on about the renewing of contracts. How can you expect to make decisions on either renewing a contract or getting shot without looking at their performance? Exactly. Do his performances suggest he will be playing as well as he did this season in 2015? He got his current contract on the basis of his performances for Bolton and as he was only 26 at the time, he was expected to maintain that performance. Now he is approaching 30, he will start to decline. I thought you were arguing against my initial point which is that he should not be rewarded witha lucrative contract covering the years of physical decline of a footballer just because he did what he was paid to do. I think it's your logic which is a bit fuzzy. It suggests that Giggs should be given a bonus of continuing to be paid by Man U next year because as he made a fantatic contribution to them this season. Let's be clear here, Nolan is on the same money until the summer of 2013. You're arguing last season's performance should allow him to comaand more than he is worth in the 2013/2014 season because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 "He was paid to score goals and be captain of a club whose aim was to survive in the premiership." That wasn't our aim when we signed him. True, he arguably should get a 10% bonus for being made captain as that's added responsibility. Maybe that's what they offered him for the additional 2 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I think it's your logic which is a bit fuzzy. It suggests that Giggs should be given a bonus of continuing to be paid by Man U next year because as he made a fantatic contribution to them this season. Let's be clear here, Nolan is on the same money until the summer of 2013. You're arguing last season's performance should allow him to comaand more than he is worth in the 2013/2014 season because of that. I think we're probably getting a bit round in circles between us. Im not arguing whether he is or isnt worth any extra cash, my post relates to your assertion that for footballers, past performance shouldnt be used to decide future contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 6783 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'd take £3m if Smith was thrown in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieRoss 0 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have no problem with it as long as better comes in. I have already said elsewhere that I think he would struggle to start here next year with everyone fit and if the incomings are as good as they seem. A very good goals contribution last year but the rest of his game was lacking IMO. Quite happy to start next year with good strikers and younger, stronger, fitter, faster midfield men. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9936 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 To compare the wages and bonuses paid to employees of a normal company (where wages represent normally < 20% of turnover and are split between far more people) to a premiership footballer is daft though. He was rewareded handsomely for his contributions, the wage he received in the championship would have been miles above the market rate and again 'at' the market rate last year. The wages received are so high that they have already built in the reward for his contribution. If he wasnt making significant contributions to the team and winning us points, he would have been massively 'over'paid for the last 2 seasons. He was paid to score goals and be captain of a club whose aim was to survive in the premiership. He performed adequatley by being actually just about worth the money being paid to him. Thats a bit of a rarity in football, a player actually just deserving what he gets paid. He has been paid 3% of the club's revenue as thats the level of performance expected of him. You dont pay someone a huge wage because you expect huge performance and then pay them again when they deliver what you paid them so much for in the first place. Seems obvious to me, dont try and confuse it with normal office life. Im sorry like but thats bollocks. Its nothing to do with "normal office life" or the amounts of money someone is on. Previous performance is how you measure someones worth in the workplace, regardless of industry*. You cannot make decisions on future pay or future employment without looking at past performance. Yes he was handsomely paid for what he did but if he exceeded the expectations then he sees his market worth go up. Whether we pay him that is neither here or there in this discussion as no matter how good a job hes done for us Im not 100% sure I would be happy handing him a long and lucrative contract. Actors are not part of the normal workplace but they are paid contracts based on past performance, if Tom Cruises films had all bombed at the box office do you think he'd command £100m for his next film? would he shite, he'd be playing a barman in some crappy porn shoot for $50 and a suck off from the leading man. I fail to see how you can argue anything other, like I said in the last post you'd sure as hell be taking past performance into account if he'd been shit. You did it with Smith. *time lords not applicable. Sport is one of the few "occupations" where age becomes a determining factor in performance though, can't think of any sportsmen, no matter how good get "rewarded" when they approach the age barrier for their sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StoneColdStephenIreland 74 Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I have no problem with it as long as better comes in. I have already said elsewhere that I think he would struggle to start here next year with everyone fit and if the incomings are as good as they seem. A very good goals contribution last year but the rest of his game was lacking IMO. Quite happy to start next year with good strikers and younger, stronger, fitter, faster midfield men. Spot on. Not really, if you went to games you would see he links up midfield pretty well, just because he lacks pace doesnt mean he just goes around plodding about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwertyo 0 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I just don't see the point of extending his contract now. He has got 2 years left at £65k a week. He isn't going to get that anywhere else. The club's stance should be - put in another good season and we will talk about an extension. If you don't like it then you can go to the first club that offers us the going rate for a 29 year old goal scoring midfielder. We don''t need another player on a 5 year contract who can then wile away the years into his mid thirties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Manson 0 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 I just don't see the point of extending his contract now. He has got 2 years left at £65k a week. He isn't going to get that anywhere else. The club's stance should be - put in another good season and we will talk about an extension. If you don't like it then you can go to the first club that offers us the going rate for a 29 year old goal scoring midfielder. We don''t need another player on a 5 year contract who can then wile away the years into his mid thirties. Offer him a new deal now that the club know he won't accept; unsettle him and therefore alert other clubs he could be available and ship him out. Hey presto; 65k a week no longer worth thinking about, a few more bob in the chairman's pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gejon 2 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 It makes you wonder why we sign these players when it's apparently obvious we don't want them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7485 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 BTW there's no chance he's on 65K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Mirror and a couple of other places claiming that the contract offer included an activation clause of a top 7 finish to get him an extension and another £10k p/w. I think the idea of performance related bonuses and wages is a good one, and protects the employer whilst incentivising/motivating the player. However, as it's not all that common throughout the PL, it can make it easier for other clubs to offer a less complex contract to our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Mirror and a couple of other places claiming that the contract offer included an activation clause of a top 7 finish to get him an extension and another £10k p/w. I think the idea of performance related bonuses and wages is a good one, and protects the employer whilst incentivising/motivating the player. However, as it's not all that common throughout the PL, it can make it easier for other clubs to offer a less complex contract to our players. To be honest it's probably about time that football in general moved with the times and offered such contract as standard, it happens everywhere else in target driven jobs so why not in football? I hate to admit it but I actually think it's a good idea. HOWEVER... it's a bit unfair to have just one person in the team with this type of limitation to their wages/contract, it's something that would need to be done across the board to work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 Agreed. It has to start somewhere. If it becomes the clubs policy though, down the line it could potentially rule out top class players or players negotiating with several clubs.(unlikey, I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7485 Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 It's tough giving a single player an incentive bonus based on something that can only be achieved by an entire team with management included. For all it's worth Nolan could sign an incentive rich extension and then the club turn around and go on a selling spree. I'm completely of the opinion that nothing needs to be done with Nolan's contract at the minute. Wait until January next year to see how he's traveling with any new signings also given a chance to make their mark on the team. If Nolan still has the same impact and positive effect on the team next season then offer him a citing extension of max 2 years with potentially an option for a third pending appearances. Noone can talk to Nolan without the clubs consent until this time next year. It's common sense and there should be nothing to these stories at all - that is unless the club is angling to sell now. If that was the case it would make little sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4821 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Rumours around the net and twitteroo that West Ham have upped their bid and NUFC are likely to accept. Can only see them coming back if they've verbally heard from Nolan that he'll join them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Mirror and a couple of other places claiming that the contract offer included an activation clause of a top 7 finish to get him an extension and another £10k p/w. I think the idea of performance related bonuses and wages is a good one, and protects the employer whilst incentivising/motivating the player. However, as it's not all that common throughout the PL, it can make it easier for other clubs to offer a less complex contract to our players. To be honest it's probably about time that football in general moved with the times and offered such contract as standard, it happens everywhere else in target driven jobs so why not in football? I hate to admit it but I actually think it's a good idea. HOWEVER... it's a bit unfair to have just one person in the team with this type of limitation to their wages/contract, it's something that would need to be done across the board to work properly. Performance related pay for footballers is a no brainer, unfortunately the PFA would go against it en-masse. The principle of appearance money is why the maximum wage was abolished, albeit the circumstances now are vastly different. For the future of the game, the PFA and the players should take off their rose tinted glasses and start to look at the whole picture, and all their members, and not just the elite 5-10% of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2207 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Rumours around the net and twitteroo that West Ham have upped their bid and NUFC are likely to accept. Can only see them coming back if they've verbally heard from Nolan that he'll join them. I like the way you comment on speculation as if it's fact Just read on twitter some shit a bored teenager made up about Nolan renting a house in Essex. Hmmmm. If he's renting in Essex it suggests he's lining up a move to West Ham. However if he's renting rather than buying it might suggest a loan to buy deal? The plot thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4821 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Rumours around the net and twitteroo that West Ham have upped their bid and NUFC are likely to accept. Can only see them coming back if they've verbally heard from Nolan that he'll join them. I like the way you comment on speculation as if it's fact Just read on twitter some shit a bored teenager made up about Nolan renting a house in Essex. Hmmmm. If he's renting in Essex it suggests he's lining up a move to West Ham. However if he's renting rather than buying it might suggest a loan to buy deal? The plot thickens! Passes the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 looks like Gejon is getting nearer eating his own bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulR9 0 Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 looks like Gejon is getting nearer eating his own bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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