GeeForce 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I do like the contortions and guesswork some people make to provide an angle on events. Just read this bit back to yourself. "when he got injured he had seemed very good for two season, we were sat in the top half of the table and as we had paid £2m for 4 games maybe the club thought an extra £5m was worth the risk based on his 4 game performances and the fact we had wasted £2m on a loan that could not be completed. The decision was then taken to gamble on him" Aye ok, thats definitely what happened. The club was not willing to risk it in August but definitely was after he got injured. You are saying their attitude to risk about the player (initially set on basis of wanting to see him for 25 games) changed to only needing to see 4 appearances and not caring anymore about an injury. His 4 appearances led to that huge change in attitude? Really? The deal was set up as wanting to see him play because we didnt have the money to pay for him. Unsurprisingly, since we'd just spent a season with little or no TV revenue. Sounds simpler that way doesnt it? Its good to see your selective quotations being used to try and put your argument forward, a bit of a spin doctor I see! That point as you well know, led in to the next sentence about the deal POSSIBLY being better financially due to his injury. I am trying to point out that there is more than one reason why a club loans a player with a agreement to buy based on certain criteria, this is not my opinion of what happened but simply other possible angles. It also supports the argument that not everything Ashley does is purely logical and therefore you looking at something through your eyes and concluding that to be the only logical answer is not certain to be what in fact did happen!. The only fact you have is that we bought him in January and you therefore conclude we only had the money in january and you then assume that points made by everyone else is Guesswork even though your so called "facts" are based on pure speculation based on when the Sky money is paid througout the season. You're just replying for the sake of replying now. The quotation wasnt selective it was the bit of your post that was the basis for your point of view. I read your post, found the bit which it hinged on and quoted it. I've not stated anything as facts, the argument wasnt even based on how the sky money flows into the club. The arguments presented in this thread are canny ridiculous tbf 'you cant include money spent in January in estimating our net financial expenditure in January' followed by 'we always had the money, its just we didnt want to risk it in case it didnt work out, thats why we spent it once the player was out injured for the season'. I'm not arsed about derailing this thread either as i consider trying to understand the reality surrounding the club as quite a useful exercise. As previously stated not at all my point of view. You claim that your point of view is we did not have the money at the time to buy him, however, the only basis you have for this argument is your speculation about clubs finances but you won't accept any other possibilities. You try and portray yourself as extremley intelligent yet you are unable to entertain the possiblilty of anything other than that which you believe (contrary to any real evidence) is fact! My argument is nothing to do with the placement of money in accounts or transfer budgets or what ever, I am simply pointing out that your clear statement "The only logical explanation is that they didn't have the money" is unfounded on two fronts, firstly and most importantly, because there are plenty of other possibilites and secondly, you cannot assume the reason behind the deal was based on logical thinking by the board in the first place. I am not saying you are wrong, but that you can't simply formulate an opinion and decide that is the only possible outcome! Anyway, this conversation is boring me now so moving on!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I didnt say it was the only possible one, i said it was the most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9997 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's like one of them IQ test questions. 3 , 5, 8, 13, 21.... 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Sack Keegan, Hire Kinnear, Sell Given, Wallpaper the stadium in Sports Direct signs, Sell Carroll... Sack Keegan - they didn't. Hire Kinnear - yep, utter crap, Sell Given - He wanted out and made it VERY plain (squad atmosphere appeared crap thanks to the mercenaries so maybe fair enough on Given's part) Wallpaper the stadium - Seriously, is that in any shape or form a big deal Sell Carroll - £35Million bloody quid, no brainer !!!!! I had assumed you were only making the best of the last couple of years, which I can comprehend if not agree with. If you're looking to excuse the holocaust of a season that was 08/09 you're asking to be shit on. Not excusing 08/09, which was utter carnage, it's just out of the example's of disaster you chose to pull out, they aren't all what I woudl call, real disasters, particularly the last two. The abortive and embarrasing sale attempts (applications by email etc. and getting pissed up in Dubai and missing the meeting with the Arabs) for example, would have been better example than "wallpapering the stadium". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nufcboy 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Aaron spear to fulham after feeling homesick aparently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeForce 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I didnt say it was the only possible one, i said it was the most likely. "the ONLY logical explanation" I am unsure how you can gleam from that "the most likely" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's like one of them IQ test questions. 3 , 5, 8, 13, 21.... 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Sack Keegan, Hire Kinnear, Sell Given, Wallpaper the stadium in Sports Direct signs, Sell Carroll... Sack Keegan - they didn't. Hire Kinnear - yep, utter crap, Sell Given - He wanted out and made it VERY plain (squad atmosphere appeared crap thanks to the mercenaries so maybe fair enough on Given's part) Wallpaper the stadium - Seriously, is that in any shape or form a big deal Sell Carroll - £35Million bloody quid, no brainer !!!!! I had assumed you were only making the best of the last couple of years, which I can comprehend if not agree with. If you're looking to excuse the holocaust of a season that was 08/09 you're asking to be shit on. Not excusing 08/09, which was utter carnage, it's just out of the example's of disaster you chose to pull out, they aren't all what I woudl call, real disasters, particularly the last two. The abortive and embarrasing sale attempts (applications by email etc. and getting pissed up in Dubai and missing the meeting with the Arabs) for example, would have been better example than "wallpapering the stadium". I'm more woried about 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Thinking that 4, 5, 9, 45, 1809.... might have been better example. You feel me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9997 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's like one of them IQ test questions. 3 , 5, 8, 13, 21.... 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Sack Keegan, Hire Kinnear, Sell Given, Wallpaper the stadium in Sports Direct signs, Sell Carroll... Sack Keegan - they didn't. Hire Kinnear - yep, utter crap, Sell Given - He wanted out and made it VERY plain (squad atmosphere appeared crap thanks to the mercenaries so maybe fair enough on Given's part) Wallpaper the stadium - Seriously, is that in any shape or form a big deal Sell Carroll - £35Million bloody quid, no brainer !!!!! I had assumed you were only making the best of the last couple of years, which I can comprehend if not agree with. If you're looking to excuse the holocaust of a season that was 08/09 you're asking to be shit on. Not excusing 08/09, which was utter carnage, it's just out of the example's of disaster you chose to pull out, they aren't all what I woudl call, real disasters, particularly the last two. The abortive and embarrasing sale attempts (applications by email etc. and getting pissed up in Dubai and missing the meeting with the Arabs) for example, would have been better example than "wallpapering the stadium". I'm more woried about 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Thinking that 4, 5, 9, 45, 1809.... might have been better example. You feel me? I apologise, I thought (assumed) the things that "grind your beans" the most would have been those that just flowed out with ease at the top of the list and as such were what you posted. I therefore misread that, I do have a bugbear that, in the scheme of things, the "wallpaper on the roof" in particular is beyond an irrelevance and that "got me going". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4856 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Aaron spear to fulham after feeling homesick aparently That wont wash in here laddie, no Ashley angle. How about "Yet another rising star sold to a more ambitious club by Ashley ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Especially seeing as he's from Plymouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22187 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It's like one of them IQ test questions. 3 , 5, 8, 13, 21.... 4, 5, 8, 17, 44.... Sack Keegan, Hire Kinnear, Sell Given, Wallpaper the stadium in Sports Direct signs, Sell Carroll... Sack Keegan - they didn't. Hire Kinnear - yep, utter crap, Sell Given - He wanted out and made it VERY plain (squad atmosphere appeared crap thanks to the mercenaries so maybe fair enough on Given's part) Wallpaper the stadium - Seriously, is that in any shape or form a big deal Sell Carroll - £35Million bloody quid, no brainer !!!!! fuck off man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) I therefore misread that, I do have a bugbear that, in the scheme of things, the "wallpaper on the roof" in particular is beyond an irrelevance and that "got me going". The Sports Direct sign on the roof boils my piss. I don't know where you watch the match, but I'm in Level 7 and it dominates my view at the game. It may be irrelevant to you, but to me it exemplifies everything that is twattish about the man. The two year old lie that it was a temporary measure to sell adverting space, that it would fund a bigger transfer kitty, the complete lack of regard for fans, the refusal to consult on any issue, rubbed right in my face and I pay £400 for the privelige. I don't blame anyone else that thinks it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but you're nit-picking about what the biggest fuck ups are in an undeniable pattern of many fuck-ups. Pick whichever fuck-ups you like. We all agree the man's been a shambles though. Edited June 1, 2011 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Especially seeing as he's from Plymouth. He came with big promise didn't he, but if lads like Ranger and Sammi Ameobi are passing him, I can't imagine he's that big a loss. (It's easier imo for a striker to be given a chance than, say, a centre half or whatever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I didnt say it was the only possible one, i said it was the most likely. "the ONLY logical explanation" I am unsure how you can gleam from that "the most likely" No inconsistency there fuckwit, there are many possible explanations most of which defy logic, the only one which doesnt is the most lilkely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9997 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I therefore misread that, I do have a bugbear that, in the scheme of things, the "wallpaper on the roof" in particular is beyond an irrelevance and that "got me going". The Sports Direct sign on the roof boils my piss. I don't know where you watch the match, but I'm in Level 7 and it dominates my view at the game. It may be irrelevant to you, but to me it exemplifies everything that is twattish about the man. The two year old lie that it was a temporary measure to sell adverting space, that it would fund a bigger transfer kitty, the complete lack of regard for fans, the refusal to consult on any issue, rubbed right in my face and I pay £400 for the privelige. I don't blame anyone else that thinks it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but you're nit-picking about what the biggest fuck ups are in an undeniable pattern of many fuck-ups. Pick whichever fuck-ups you like. We all agree the man's been a shambles though. Agreed, in almost everything except the finances. P.S. You "were" in Level 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 6 pages long and we've only signed one player...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Have we even MEHDi ABIED on any other players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Have we even MEHDi ABIED on any other players? Very good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryten 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Have we even MEHDi ABIED on any other players? Very good! took me 30 seconds of long hard staring then the penny dropped very good indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7084 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 You on shore leave Kryten? Two posts in two days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeForce 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I didnt say it was the only possible one, i said it was the most likely. "the ONLY logical explanation" I am unsure how you can gleam from that "the most likely" No inconsistency there fuckwit, there are many possible explanations most of which defy logic, the only one which doesnt is the most lilkely. As discussed previously, your logic may not be the same as everyone else's especially the likes of Ashley. I thought a switched on guy like yourself mind understand this. But if you are looking for a differing logical notion for the timeline of payments re: the purchase of HBA please consider this. They requested £7m for the player, we did not wish to pay that upfront but the player forced the hand of his parent club. We took the initiative to ask for a year loan with an upfront fee with a future purchase depending on a certain set of outcomes. HBA then gets injured having shown some promise, we decide to purchase him to stick by the player and exponentially increase our hand in the French transfer Market due to all the good press given to us for acts like the chairman and manager meeting with the player in France as he is rehabilitating in a place he is comfortable. We now seem, if reports are to be believed, that we are able to attract players from France who in another scenario would not think twice about leaving a champions league side for a team hoping at best for mid table obscurity. You could in fact say, that this approach taken, is not only logical but has actually benefitted the club, whilst also generating interest from the £5m in the clubs account over the period between the start of the loan and the purchase agreement. Now you can argue that MA would not have the foresight for this kind of thing but that is a completely separate conversation as the above at least shows a combination of plausible logical events, which without wishing to sound glib, differ to your simplistic view of not having the money upfront. I must also point out that seen as you have resorted to needless insults like a standard forum keyboard warrior your use of the word fuckwit proves you either don't have the intelligence to finish an argument and therefore resort to childish behaviour or you simply feel your points made are somewhat flawed and you do not have the expansion in your vocabulary to explain your way out of a corner which you have backed yourself into with your self centred view that what you think is right and everyone should agree. At the end of the day it is a forum and the whole point is to debate and discuss our opinions on what we feel is happening at the club and does not need people like you getting irate at a different point of view and resorting to needless insults! I am certainly not falling out with you on this and I am not bothered by a response as I am fully confident that your one, admittedly logical explanation, is not in fact the ONLY logical explanation for the discussed events! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Am not arsed anymore. Nice melt down though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 7559 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Time for a new Official Signings thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeeForce 0 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Am not arsed anymore. Nice melt down though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think we should just all be friends, wipe the slate clean and give them one last chance to get it right. if they get it right this summer, i'll be the first to admit i was wrong on here and congratulate the board for investing well. really though, they haven't really done anything up until now to convince anyone on here that they will get it right this time. the fuckwit doesn't deserve another chance. most of us are rightly assuming he's going to mess it up again. you got it wrong ages ago when you said the old owners were shite etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I therefore misread that, I do have a bugbear that, in the scheme of things, the "wallpaper on the roof" in particular is beyond an irrelevance and that "got me going". The Sports Direct sign on the roof boils my piss. I don't know where you watch the match, but I'm in Level 7 and it dominates my view at the game. It may be irrelevant to you, but to me it exemplifies everything that is twattish about the man. The two year old lie that it was a temporary measure to sell adverting space, that it would fund a bigger transfer kitty, the complete lack of regard for fans, the refusal to consult on any issue, rubbed right in my face and I pay £400 for the privelige. I don't blame anyone else that thinks it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but you're nit-picking about what the biggest fuck ups are in an undeniable pattern of many fuck-ups. Pick whichever fuck-ups you like. We all agree the man's been a shambles though. Agreed, in almost everything except the finances. P.S. You "were" in Level 7 unfortunately, the league tables and european places aren't decided by balance sheets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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